JLT2 vs Saints

[ossie_21]

Are we fair dinkum writing off our season on the back of two JLT losses ?
****, there’s some genuine nuff nuffs on this board.
I’m actually embarrassed for some of you. Seriously.

I think it would be normal to have at least some disappointment after the last 2 games. Didn’t see much of either game, but with what I did so on top of reports from here, it doesn’t fill me with much confidence. Playing defenders up forward, playing anyone other than the actual rucks in the ruck....

Downside is didn’t even get to see Dickson, Greene or Cavarra at all but gave game time to an injury interrupted Smith or speculative pick in Young (which I still 100% believe should have been a state league key forward).

Part of just hopes Bev was playing smoke & mirrors and that our very young team is actually super professional & it will be turned on in round 1 like we did against Freo a few years ago.
The other part acknowledges it’s actually more likely we shoot ourselves in the foot by not having a competitive ruck, as well as a makeshift forward line led by a rubbish forwards coach who was an average player himself

 

[Mattdougie]

I think it would be normal to have at least some disappointment after the last 2 games. Didn’t see much of either game, but with what I did so on top of reports from here, it doesn’t fill me with much confidence. Playing defenders up forward, playing anyone other than the actual rucks in the ruck....

Downside is didn’t even get to see Dickson, Greene or Cavarra at all but gave game time to an injury interrupted Smith or speculative pick in Young (which I still 100% believe should have been a state league key forward).

Part of just hopes Bev was playing smoke & mirrors and that our very young team is actually super professional & it will be turned on in round 1 like we did against Freo a few years ago.
The other part acknowledges it’s actually more likely we shoot ourselves in the foot by not having a competitive ruck, as well as a makeshift forward line led by a rubbish forwards coach who was an average player himself

Bevs absolute control, inability to delegate and lack of respect for ruck play are all major issues now.

Each day it becomes clearer that the players pushed out weren’t as bad as thought they just didn’t meet Bevs level for some reason and were forced out.

Stringer would still be our best forward by the length of Flemington straight.

 

[SayerTheCreator]

Lose both games of the JLT = it means nothing, who cares it’s just a practice game

Win both games = the boys are up and about this year has started so well, great to get wins early against real opposition

Ahhhhhh never change BF never change

Had we won, I doubt anyone seriously calls GC and StK real opposition

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

The biggest disappointment about the JLT games is that we look totally devoid of a plan. Players are chopped and changed in an erratic fashion. Daniel down back manning up the biggest blokes on the pitch. Our gun defender is sacrificed to patch a hole up forward. Everyone has a go in the ruck. We even try nobody in the ruck.

Bevo is shuffling his pack furiously. For such a seemingly methodical bloke, it looks alarmingly like a scattergun approach to the game. Nobody knows what they’re doing or who is around them. Bollocks to flexibly and versatility, how about we get some continuity and consistency.

 

[Mattdougie]

The biggest disappointment about the JLT games is that we look totally devoid of a plan. Players are chopped and changed in an erratic fashion. Daniel down back manning up the biggest blokes on the pitch. Our gun defender is sacrificed to patch a hole up forward. Everyone has a go in the ruck. We even try nobody in the ruck.

Bevo is shuffling his pack furiously. For such a seemingly methodical bloke, it looks alarmingly like a scattergun approach to the game. Nobody knows what they’re doing or who is around them. Bollocks to flexibly and versatility, how about we get some continuity and consistency.

Young teams need continuity and consistency

We won a bloody flag by being consistant and predictable.

Who ever had the idea in the 17 pre season that flexibility was the key is a f!cking idiot

 

[Yojimbo]

Toby McLean versus Gold Coast: 3 Kicks, 16 Handballs.
Toby McLean versus St Kilda: 3 Kicks, 15 Handballs.

I have always been a fan of consistency, until now....

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I think it would be normal to have at least some disappointment after the last 2 games. Didn’t see much of either game, but with what I did so on top of reports from here, it doesn’t fill me with much confidence. Playing defenders up forward, playing anyone other than the actual rucks in the ruck....

Downside is didn’t even get to see Dickson, Greene or Cavarra at all but gave game time to an injury interrupted Smith or speculative pick in Young (which I still 100% believe should have been a state league key forward).

Part of just hopes Bev was playing smoke & mirrors and that our very young team is actually super professional & it will be turned on in round 1 like we did against Freo a few years ago.
The other part acknowledges it’s actually more likely we shoot ourselves in the foot by not having a competitive ruck, as well as a makeshift forward line led by a rubbish forwards coach who was an average player himself

My only disappointment is Bevo leaving the door open for mega melts on here.

The two things I’ve thought about these JLT games is the skill errors ( decision making ) and execution of structures and game plans. Mainly due to lack of intensity.
I would’ve thought we’d be a little more fine tuned going in to round 1 but not worried yet.
We haven’t gotten out of third gear so far so I expect a better showing in Rd 1 which the other 17 clubs are also expecting.

 

[_M_16_]

Seems like we solved our kicking issue in the preseason.... not by actually kicking it better, but instead by seeming to kick the ball less, and handball it almost more than most sides. Genius.

 

[SonOfScray]

Season's over. We won't even fire a shot.

 

[BRWB]

Think many were hoping the JLT would show evidence things had changed at the kennel with our rubbish use and fwd line.

Still waiting.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Might come back later after the pointless fights in the stands have ended

Well, McGlee, I hear that returning is what you do best!

 

[dogwatch]

Negatives:

• Same old story with forward line. Our notional forward line has no strong KPF who can take CMs. Putting Naughton there today showed what's possible but we need him in defence (similar issue there). Schache could have kicked a few (ended with 2.2) but is not a CM beast. He didn't take one CM today.
• Too much fumbling. From what I could make of our game plan it's going to need clean handling. That amount of fumbling will kill us.
• Not a fan of the handball game unless we can be really clean, which we weren't. It's OK on the rebound and looks good when it comes off but somebody has to take responsibility and have a kick before the forward 50 and where we handball ourselves into trouble. Our K:H ratio was 0.96, St Kilda's was 1.52. It's a bit of chicken or egg I suppose. We have no confidence in any forward taking a mark so it feels safer to handball.
• Bizarre FK count 40-14. Many were there but some were a bit dubious. We won't get the benefit of that sort of differential again this year, so I'm calling it a negative.
• Any defensive system that leaves Daniel as the only one available to spoil a marking contest against any big-bodied tall or medium-tall forward (eg Bruce, Membrey) is suspect. Either that or the players aren't following the system properly. It happened not once (I could excuse that) but several times and seems to happen every match.

Positives:

• No injuries
• We were competitive throughout and maintained pretty good defensive pressure right across the ground.
• We won the clearances and CPs and were close to level in the tackle count and i50s. = competitive.

Individuals:

• Naughton is just sooo good for a 19yo. I still think we'll need him more in defence than up forward.
• I'm OK with Daniel at half-back - I think on balance the benefits considerably outweigh the disadvantages - but the defensive system has to make sure he's not isolated against the gorillas in a marking contest.
• I liked Schache's game. Kicked 2.2 (incl a poster). Contested in the air and on the ground and created enough chances.
• Very disappointed with Richards this week. I think he's marginal for Rd 1 selection (but MC will probably stick with him). He had 69% game time and got 6 disposals, none of which were telling.
• I'm more comfortable with Bailey Smith this week. I know he kicked a couple of grubbers but I thought he was starting to get more involved as the game went on and I saw enough there to be encouraged. I'd pick him ahead of Richards based on today's showings. He had 12 possessions (incl 5 CPs) from only 46% game time.
• Sam Lloyd is a walk up start for Rd 1. Hopefully alongside Dickson. Seemed the only small forward to really represent a scoring threat all day.
• I was pleased to get a look at Lachlan Young. It might take a while for him to get a seniors game but he looks like he has a bit of competitive edge and toughness about him. I like that and we sure need it.
• Still don't see it with Will Hayes but he might be useful second or third tier depth I suppose.
• Libba coming along nicely. Will get better by Rd 1.
• Thought Tim English actually went OK. Had some nice taps, even though we lost the HOs overall. He only played 45% game time.

 

[dogwatch]

Toby McLean versus Gold Coast: 3 Kicks, 16 Handballs.
Toby McLean versus St Kilda: 3 Kicks, 15 Handballs.

I have always been a fan of consistency, until now....

Yes I noticed that. It's Dahlesque (2018 version). That's a worry.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Anyone else with me regarding hunter being a non damaging player?

Hunter is non-damaging. But not every player has to be Dusty Martin. You need one or two players in every team who present options for players under the gun. We have two of them - Hunter and Macrae. Both have been accused of being non-damaging. But both are critically important in my view until we have someone who is more damaging that runs as hard as Hunter does. I'm not seeing that player yet.

 

[Struggle]

Why the * do we handball along ground much. Just makes it that much harder for the next guy to pick up

 

[dogwatch]

Let's judge Hunter on his 2018 season (or his 2019 season) not on a couple of JLTs. He's not your complete footballer and I know he doesn't kick bullets like Bontempelli but he was pretty damned useful throughout last season.

 

[the dog's kennel]

The fumbling and dropped marks were super frustrating, but that might be a pre-season thing. MIGHT.

Not worried about Bailey Smith. He showed signs to me of being a quick learner. Clearly out of his depth right now, but I'm betting he'll be making a huge splash by the mid-season break.

Lloyd looks promising. We're not using him well yet, and he's still managing to make an impact on the game. He might be a real steal.

Very worried about Dunkley. His disposal is regressing by the game. He seems to have decided he is just going to be a battering ram and run directly into guys like a rugby forward, and then dribble the ball out to no advantage at all. I wish Crossy was still at our team - Dunkley would do well to model himself on Crossy's game. The way he's been heading recently, I'm seeing the game pass him by - regardless of his higher disposal numbers.

GOAL KICKING! WAAAAAHHHHHHH! MAKE THIS NIGHTMARE STOP!

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

The fumbling and dropped marks were super frustrating, but that might be a pre-season thing. MIGHT.

Not worried about Bailey Smith. He showed signs to me of being a quick learner. Clearly out of his depth right now, but I'm betting he'll be making a huge splash by the mid-season break.

Lloyd looks promising. We're not using him well yet, and he's still managing to make an impact on the game. He might be a real steal.

Very worried about Dunkley. His disposal is regressing by the game. He seems to have decided he is just going to be a battering ram, and run directly into guys like a rugby forward, and then dribble the ball out to no advantage at all. I wish Crossy was still at our team - Dunkley would do well to model himself on Crossy's game. At this point in time, I'm seeing the game pass him by.

GOAL KICKING! WAAAAAHHHHHHH! MAKE THIS NIGHTMARE STOP!

its concerning that lloyd looks better than a lot of players - disposal, footy smarts. forward craft
we just have too many simliar vanilla players on the list. we need dynamism

 

[Mattdougie]

its concerning that lloyd looks better than a lot of players - disposal, footy smarts. forward craft
we just have too many simliar vanilla players on the list. we need dynamism

Jake Stringer would be handy

 

[Mattdougie]

Take aways

Naughton is an absolute jet that wile should be signing up for massive coin NOW.

Bont has to be a concern to stay imo. If things don’t improve this year I think he is 50/50 to stay.

Libba is just a consistent warrior

Wallis leaving wouldn’t have been a big loss

Richards and McLean both looked a little lost.

Bailey Smith isn’t ready

Bailey Williams isn’t very good

Caleb Daniel will get crucified as a backmen in real games.

We have no ruck division

Lloyd is our best forward

Schache will not make it as a number one KPF. He needs help.

Dunkley is slower than me and I only have one knee

We are the worst kicking team in the league

Bevs coaching has to be under question if this is a consistent thread of play this year.

We will have a very good draft pick at years end.

Dog fans don’t like the truth

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Jake Stringer would be handy

we need more than just stringer. yes he would help though.

just like when suckling came into our team, we all thought omg his kicking is elite and we compared it to the rest of our players and he stood out. but in comparison to his hawks team mates , he was just another of elite kickers.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Take aways

Naughton is an absolute jet that wile should be signing up for massive coin NOW.

Bont has to be a concern to stay imo. If things don’t improve this year I think he is 50/50 to stay.

Libba is just a consistent warrior

Wallis leaving wouldn’t have been a big loss

Richards and McLean both looked a little lost.

Bailey Smith isn’t ready

Bailey Williams isn’t very good

Caleb Daniel will get crucified as a backmen in real games.

We have no ruck division

Lloyd is our best forward

Schache will not make it as a number one KPF. He needs help.

Dunkley is slower than me and I only have one knee

We are the worst kicking team in the league

Bevs coaching has to be under question if this is a consistent thread of play this year.

We will have a very good draft pick at years end.

Dog fans don’t like the truth

im also concerned about our general defending and defensive system.
the same patterns have emerged

 

[Draft Pick]

All good.

We will win beteween 8-11 games.

2016 premiers baby with an average group of players. You little beauty.

 

[Cruiserweight Champ]

Was a shocking display---was at the game and the much less experienced Saints outplayed us from opening bounce. Besides a lack of key def/off players, I honestly believe that Bevo is not adapting his game style/strategy that we used so well in 15/16. We still insist on handballing or short 15-20mtrs kicks to rebound out of defensive 50. It is such a risky strategy cos just one poor disposal in the link results in a turnover and shot on goal for other team. We must be the only team who has more handballs vs kicks a game (today was 189-185, Saints 231-152). Playing more direct through the corridor and putting opposing defenders under pressure is better than a chain of four-six hospital type handballs to get it inside 50, cos all it takes is just one errant disposal and we get caught out on the turnover. His obsession with playing defenders in front of their opponent costs us badly as soon as our defender ball watches, his direct opponent then uses this to change direction and all of a sudden he has 20mtrs on our defender. This is why we concede so many marks inside 50 and all over the ground---the Saints took 111 marks and we had 48. Unless he gets with the times and plays a more direct approach with our ball movement then we will finish bottom 2 and I'm not kidding.

Also, I have feeling he is losing the players. They played today as if they could not care less.

 

[TMoney22]

JLT isn't meaningless, those players on the fringe should be busting there ass to show what they have. And we need to take every opportunity to increase memberships which will fall this year. Unprofessional if they don't take it seriously.

Keep Naughton at one end of the ground, just pick one and stick with it. F**** flexibility. Our players are less developed in their primary positions because of it. Flexibility comes with experience