Preview RND 1 - Carlton v Richmond - Thursday 21st March 7:20PM @ MCG - Team Post #1412

[Macca43]

He played very well in JLT 1.

Really? Very Well? To me he got a couple of opportunist goals and went for long periods.

 

[Macca43]

Small forwards aren't always consistent and Gibbons is a midfielder from the VFL who is learning to play as an AFL small forward with a bunch of guys he's never played with before in a new team.

20-30 goals plus pressure acts from a small forward is really good. Gibbons finished the JLT averaging 1.5 goals and I thought his pressure was alright which is on par with good small forwards.

The club seem to think he has the qualities to play that role and I do to. He's quick in small spaces, clean hands, good reflexes and he seems to kick straight for goal and his general leg speed is fairly decent too. Added to that he should be able to go through the midfield for bursts as well but he may need an AFL preseason under his belt first.

I think we just need to let him settle in and we will be rewarded. If he consistently applies good pressure and averages around that 1-1.5 goals per game then that's a win for us. Doesn't have to kick goals every week but hopefully does the other stuff.

I hope Fasolo plays as well. I have no issues with Polson playing AFL or VFL but at this stage I think he needs to play some VFL and get his numbers up.

Silvagni is probably close to playing. I like his positioning at stoppages, I think he positions well defensively and applies pressure and tackles well. Good numbers in the VFL but I think VFL onballers who want to seriously break into the AFL side probably need to at least crack that magic 30 possession mark. I know he goes forward as well but I'd like to see him tick these boxes first.

So we allow Gibbons to tick his unticked boxes in the AFL while Jack has to tick his in the VFL?

 

[Blue__Balls]

That would be being honest, but we heard from our coaches already that they have been 'trying' to find small forwards.
What that means is that we haven't any and will somehow have to make do.
Not sure how we could have found ourselves in this spot. Were we really relying on LeBois to come up?

Probably more that they were a little lower on our list of priorities given they usually come a bit cheaper, and come on a bit quicker. It's also one of those positions you can kinda get away with rotating mids through (not with anywhere near the same success as having an elite small forward, of course, but you can make do).

Lebois, Pickett, Cuningham, Fasolo, Gibbons, Polson, Murphy, Fisher, SPS, Thomas. We likely thought we'd have enough "good enough" options to run through the forward pocket that it wasn't worth reaching for someone we didn't really want. Mayhaps we have our eye on someone in the 2019 draft crop, or have been making inroads with an established player coming out of contract this year?

Bird in the hand, and all that, but lots of balls being juggled from a list management perspective, and I can see a world where we're happy to wait.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Really? Very Well? To me he got a couple of opportunist goals and went for long periods.

Kind of like a...



...small forward?!

 

[kjr8]

So we allow Gibbons to tick his unticked boxes in the AFL while Jack has to tick his in the VFL?

Gibbons has already proven to be a top VFL player.. I don't think he'll learn anything / much, if he's made to serve "an apprenticeship" again in VFL to see if he's up to AFL standards..

Could argue that Jack was allowed the same i.e. work on his deficiencies at AFL level..

 

[Blue__Balls]

So we allow Gibbons to tick his unticked boxes in the AFL while Jack has to tick his in the VFL?

Lachie Plowman had 13 touches, 3 marks and a goal - maybe we should play him in that small forward spot instead of Gibbons AND Jack?

 

[Soapy V]

I agree he is playing out of position, but if we are going to pick another onballer who can also go forward I would go with JSOS, who can also go back if necessary and has shown decent form.

As i said above, if we roll Murphy, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Cuningham & Ed through the forward line we can afford to go a little taller in Jack than Gibbons.

It won't happen BUT I don't look at it as another midfielder.

I would have Jack or Kennedy in my side to help Cripps & Curnow (who needs to be back in the middle). SPS is tough enough and ready to handle it. Gibbons is also strong enough and smart. Dow Walsh Setterfield Fisher I would give less minutes in the middle and more on the wings as they develop. I want to see the stronger bodies around the ball more against a side like Richmond

I would play DC as a permanent forward and Murphy deep forward

That would mean

Phillips Kennedy/Jack Curnow
Walsh Cripps Dow

One mid up forward and 3 on the bench all rotating (Fisher SPS Setterfield & Gibbons) = 9 mids

JMO

PS Then if we bring in Fasolo? Buggered if I know

 

[Macca43]

Kind of like a...



...small forward?!

Kinda a like a poor small forward.

I am tipping that if Pickett put up Gibbons performances over the JLT he would be getting hammered. Everyone bags out Polson but over the 2 games he had 18 possessions and 7 tackles compared to Gibbons 15 and 7.

Matthew Wright averaged as many possessions a game as Gibbons had in 2 (and most of his came when he was on the ball late in the Essendon game). Fasolo averages 13.8 possessions, Gibbons 7.5.

 

[Macca43]

Lachie Plowman had 13 touches, 3 marks and a goal - maybe we should play him in that small forward spot instead of Gibbons AND Jack?

Sigh.

 

[Opine]

So we allow Gibbons to tick his unticked boxes in the AFL while Jack has to tick his in the VFL?

An emerging issue may be whether, and for how long, a senior player, say for example Murphy or Ed, should be played at the expense of either of these 2. Just saying.

 

[Soapy V]

Kinda a like a poor small forward.

I am tipping that if Pickett put up Gibbons performances over the JLT he would be getting hammered. Everyone bags out Polson but over the 2 games he had 18 possessions and 7 tackles compared to Gibbons 15 and 7.

Matthew Wright averaged as many possessions a game as Gibbons had in 2 (and most of his came when he was on the ball late in the Essendon game). Fasolo averages 13.8 possessions, Gibbons 7.5.

I don't think Pickett is a small forward either

 

[Macca43]

Gibbons has already proven to be a top VFL player.. I don't think he'll learn anything / much, if he's made to serve "an apprenticeship" again in VFL to see if he's up to AFL standards..

Could argue that Jack was allowed the same i.e. work on his deficiencies at AFL level..

What did he do in the two games to show he deserves a crack. And Jack may have got the benefit of a few free AFL games, but our list is a lot stronger now, games have to be earned.

 

[Macca43]

It won't happen BUT I don't look at it as another midfielder.

I would have Jack or Kennedy in my side to help Cripps & Curnow (who needs to be back in the middle). SPS is tough enough and ready to handle it. Gibbons is also strong enough and smart. Dow Walsh Setterfield Fisher I would give less minutes in the middle and more on the wings as they develop

I would play DC as a permanent forward and Murphy deep forward

That would mean

Phillips Kennedy/Jack Curnow
Walsh Cripps Dow

One mid up forward and 3 on the bench all rotating (Fisher SPS Setterfield & Gibbons) = 9 mids

JMO

PS Then if we bring in Fasolo? Buggered if I know

I agree but the original team as discussed didn't have either Kennedy or Jack in it but had Fasolo & Gibbons, I would lose Gibbons to get a Jack or Kennedy.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

I try to avoid making the team selections. Pretty sensible seeing I’m not on the Match Committee. However if Kreuzer’s fit he plays.

 

[kjr8]

What did he do in the two games to show he deserves a crack. And Jack may have got the benefit of a few free AFL games, but our list is a lot stronger now, games have to be earned.

In JLT 1, he was able to hit the scoreboard and provided forward pressure.. JLT 2, he coudln't hit scoreboard, but had 5 x foward 50 tackles..

Those two aspects / areas is what our team has been crying out for.. Is Jack able to provide in those areas, absolutely.. in the same role WITHOUT throwing team balance out of whack? Not so sure.

If a spot absolutely has to be made available for Jack, I'd be more inclined to drop Plowman for him. Consider them on-par as far as disposal.. What Jack would lack in defensive nous (in comparison to Plow), he'll make up for in effort and urgency (in comparison to Plow).

 

[Soapy V]

I agree but the original team as discussed didn't have either Kennedy or Jack in it but had Fasolo & Gibbons, I would lose Gibbons to get a Jack or Kennedy.

I'd drop Polson

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Gibbons had 6 touches and 5 tackles on the weekend and didn't hit the scoreboard at all. The week before he had 9 touches, 2 tackles and 3 goals while Silvagni had 7, 4 & 1.

I don't see anything in Gibbons that screams pick me. Silvagni gives us a bit more versatility, we can cover a "lack of speed" by rotating SPS, Fisher, Dow & Murphy through the forward line and if you aren't going to reward a 23 touch, 8 clearance, 16 tackle and 1 goal game when there are clear spots up for grabs when are you?

This year with the inclusion of garlett in defense and polson/gibbons in the forward line it appears as though bolton is looking for players with clearer more defined jobs rather than shuffling players out of position to fit in the 22 best individuals.

If you want to include JSOS on the strength of that performance then he needs to play midfield. we're doing him no favours by playing him midfield in the VFL, then bringing him back into the first team forward line to get 7 touches then dropping him the next week. And i'm not sure there's an opening in the midfield right now given that everyone there is pretty healthy except kennedy.

but that's fine he can play VFL for a few weeks and keep his form up and when an injury inevitably comes or walsh needs a rest etc we have a competent midfielder ready to step in. i know most of us carlton fans aren't familiar with this but the urban legends speak of this concept and they call it 'depth'.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Kinda a like a poor small forward.

I am tipping that if Pickett put up Gibbons performances over the JLT he would be getting hammered. Everyone bags out Polson but over the 2 games he had 18 possessions and 7 tackles compared to Gibbons 15 and 7.

Matthew Wright averaged as many possessions a game as Gibbons had in 2 (and most of his came when he was on the ball late in the Essendon game). Fasolo averages 13.8 possessions, Gibbons 7.5.

Can't just look at the stats, Macca.

Polson has had plenty of development opportunity at AFL level, and while he does clock up a few tackles he simply isn't very damaging. Scope for improvement, for sure, but when watching him play it's very evident that he regularly overcommits to contests, tackles, pressure etc. and lets players off the hook. Don't mind the manic pressure if it's coming from someone who also hits the scoreboard.

Gibbons has been stuck at VFL level too long, and is having a crack at the small forward role in an effort to forge an AFL career. He's had less development in that space than Polson, and while the numbers look similar, you only have to watch him play to see that he's typically smarter with his positioning. He lacks Polson's zip, but has shown more of an eye for goal. He's also a more mature body, physically, and uses that to better advantage than Polson who is fairly easily moved off the ball.

Both have limited runs on the board, both have deficiencies, both have scope for improvement. I don't think there's a huge different between them and won't particularly mind if one or the other gets the nod. My preference is Gibbons, because I think the maturity and voice he offers is useful for our young forward line. I also value his football smarts over Polson's enthusiasm. But if we use Curnow and Murphy through the forward line more, perhaps Polson might be a better addition.

Silvagni though. Plays a very different role to both players. Has the desperation that Polson shows, but not the speed. Has the smarts that Gibbons shows, but not the strength. Really don't know what his best position will be, but I don't think it's as a pressure forward. He may have racked up a heap of tackles playing on-ball in a VFL practice game, but that's a different proposition to applying pressure and crumbing goals in the forward line at AFL level. Personal preference - keep using him on-ball in the VFL, rotating forward and back. Use him as injury cover, for Setterfield and Plowman specifically. When he gets games, it's as a medium defender or a big-bodied mid rotation who can drift forward.

 

[Macca43]

I'd drop Polson

He didn't have Polson either.

 

[Soapy V]

I'd drop Polson. Just like to see him get back to the VFL and play as a mid for a number of weeks. Get confident and come back better. Bloody hard adjusting to AFL football especially when you are playing a position that isn't natural to him.

Fasolo to replace him. Jack or Kennedy for Gibbons

 

[Macca43]

In JLT 1, he was able to hit the scoreboard and provided forward pressure.. JLT 2, he coudln't hit scoreboard, but had 5 x foward 50 tackles..

Those two aspects / areas is what our team has been crying out for.. Is Jack able to provide in those areas, absolutely.. in the same role WITHOUT throwing team balance out of whack? Not so sure.

If a spot absolutely has to be made available for Jack, I'd be more inclined to drop Plowman for him. Consider them on-par as far as disposal.. What Jack would lack in defensive nous (in comparison to Plow), he'll make up for in effort and urgency (in comparison to Plow).

I think Plowman is incredibly under rated.

As for what you think Gibbons brings, Polson does the same but most want him out.

 

[Soapy V]

Polson did a lot right last year, not sure he did enough in the JLT though. Think the last two spots in the forward line are out of Polson, Gibbons and Fasolo. I don't think any other forwards are much of a chance at the moment. Silvagni only a slight chance as a forward.

Garlett plays for mine, he's a part of the back 7 at the moment, I don't think we have any other defenders fit and pushing real hard to shift him or any of the others out just yet. We're fine for talls, Schumacher hasn't done enough yet, O'Brien is not a defender, Docherty is out, Williamson and Marchbank are a little while away as is Macreadie.

I think the midfield is set. Silvagni, O'Brien and Kennedy are the other options in reserve and I don't think they push any of those 8 out. Stocker is still a bit raw and Lang is a while away. That midfield worked all right in the JLT. It will be good to see it gain some continuity.

7 forwards, 7 defenders and 8 midfielders sounds a good structure that I think we will go with. Obviously have a few who will play part time in other positions to get the rotations right but everyone will have their main area of the ground that they play.

Defenders
Jones Weitering Plowman Simpson Thomas Garlett Newman

Forwards
Curnow McGovern McKay Cuningham Gibbons Fasolo

Midfield
Phillips Cripps SPS Murphy Curnow Walsh Fisher Dow

Structure is one of the areas where I think we have improved a lot as well as built a little more quality depth in the side.

Looks about right to me.

Only "Maybe" is Kennedy or Jack for Gibbons. I just like the bigger body against the Tigers.

O'Brien won't play

 

[Laphroaig]

Bolton loves Polson. Maybe it’s a little man thing. I can’t see him dropping Polson.

I have Garlett, Polson and O'Brian fighting it out for the last spot on the bench, who wins that battle???

Polson and Garlett will both play.

We have plenty of pace in the midfield, and not much (available) genuine pace forward or back. For that reason, they are both in.

 

[Macca43]

Can't just look at the stats, Macca.

Polson has had plenty of development opportunity at AFL level, and while he does clock up a few tackles he simply isn't very damaging. Scope for improvement, for sure, but when watching him play it's very evident that he regularly overcommits to contests, tackles, pressure etc. and lets players off the hook. Don't mind the manic pressure if it's coming from someone who also hits the scoreboard.

Gibbons has been stuck at VFL level too long, and is having a crack at the small forward role in an effort to forge an AFL career. He's had less development in that space than Polson, and while the numbers look similar, you only have to watch him play to see that he's typically smarter with his positioning. He lacks Polson's zip, but has shown more of an eye for goal. He's also a more mature body, physically, and uses that to better advantage than Polson who is fairly easily moved off the ball.

Both have limited runs on the board, both have deficiencies, both have scope for improvement. I don't think there's a huge different between them and won't particularly mind if one or the other gets the nod. My preference is Gibbons, because I think the maturity and voice he offers is useful for our young forward line. I also value his football smarts over Polson's enthusiasm. But if we use Curnow and Murphy through the forward line more, perhaps Polson might be a better addition.

Silvagni though. Plays a very different role to both players. Has the desperation that Polson shows, but not the speed. Has the smarts that Gibbons shows, but not the strength. Really don't know what his best position will be, but I don't think it's as a pressure forward. He may have racked up a heap of tackles playing on-ball in a VFL practice game, but that's a different proposition to applying pressure and crumbing goals in the forward line at AFL level. Personal preference - keep using him on-ball in the VFL, rotating forward and back. Use him as injury cover, for Setterfield and Plowman specifically. When he gets games, it's as a medium defender or a big-bodied mid rotation who can drift forward.

Looking at Jack this pre-season I don't think you can say he lacks the strength of Gibbons. And while he isn't as quick as Polson he is cleaner, a better user, more footy smarts and much more versatile.

And as I have said a couple of times now, we can rotate others through the forward line and let Jack play more inside mid who can drift forward.

And I would look at more than just stats but no matter how many time I re-watch the Collingwood game I just can't find Gibbons.

 

[Macca43]

Looks about right to me.

Only "Maybe" is Kennedy or Jack for Gibbons. I just like the bigger body against the Tigers.

O'Brien won't play

This