Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 10

[Magus]

Where are Hawthorn getting 80 million from?

 

[dav3]

"I watch Shark Week (on TV) every year so there are no worries there.”

LOL, watching some show about sharks is going to prevent him from being bitten by a shark while surfing.

He surfs with Jesus, so I'm sure that helps too

 

[OneGreatClub]

I r

Sorry to break the circlejerk, but please point me where the AFL has committed to funding it? And if they eventually do it will be a relatively minor amount late in the process.

The Hawks have done the heavy lifting here, building momentum in the project negotiating with councils & developers, drawing on wealthy supporters, then convincing financial backers with a compelling case. Now they'll go to the government and AFL bodies with a very strong argument that it's not pie in the sky stuff - it's happening so get on board with it. And guess what, they will probably get the remaining funds.

That's what it takes. No reason why the PAFC cannot achieve the same vision should the powers that be prioritise it, but whether rightly or wrongly it sounds as though we are putting the majority of the huge amount of energy and cohesion required into other endeavours (ie. China, Indigenous Community Programs, fighting fires on the SMA front and surely soon enough AFLW & a national mens reserves side will be on the agenda).

One thing is certain - it definitely won't be achieved by anyone sitting on here dick in hand bleating about life being so unfair and "Gil-the-dill" and whatnot.

Come on, their pokies, being a big powerful Vic club, Kennett’s political contacts, with all those Premierships helps their cause massively and the Vic government is putting heaps into the AFL clubs over there. Ii have heard nothing from Marshall saying we are getting even a brass razoo for our centre of excellence and aboriginal centre .

 

[chachi11]

Where are Hawthorn getting 80 million from?

The family club.

 

[DaTBird187]

Yes, the Hawthorn business model is one to aspire to.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

At what point does it become relatively pointless for Port to be competing in the AFL? Even the now mythical Alberton redesign was garbage compared to the new Carlton base and now this.

Hawthorn wants to build one of the world’s biggest and best training bases at its new Dingley home by the end of 2022.
The club has submitted new plans to construct a dazzling $130 million headquarters and community facility across 80 acres.

The Hawks will contribute about $80 million and seek $50 million in Government and AFL funds to complete the Kennedy Community Centre.

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https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...e/news-story/79229fa47f99fb0a181ffd77382a7520

I have kept a word document from 2015 to mid last year of all the proposed new training facilities in the league and threatened a few times to start a thread called Mega Facilities - The New Arms Race in Footy, but I had over 100 pages of links, photos, copied articles etc and couldn't be stuffed trimming it back. I did do a short list in 2018 Members Convention thread in February last year HERE and copied it into the Alberton Oval precinct redevelopment thread a month later.

Everyone bar Port, Melbourne,Adelaide and the Swans had proposals until we made our announcement last year, and Essendon and the Bulldogs had finished their $30m facilities and Richmond had started when I started collecting the info in 2015.

The original plan for the Hawks was about $30m and then by 2016 it was a $60m facility which included 2 ovals one Docklands sized and the other MCG sized and they bought the land in early 2017 for $8m. So why the extra $70m?? They have a women's team coming in 2022, realised if you want government $$$ you need a big community aspect and have added new community sports facilities and fields and went and saw what the world is doing and have copied some of that and its a blow out - well not really if they get $50m from government which was never budgeted for in the original $30m and then $60m proposal.

https://outline.com/2HHjmh
It includes an MCG-sized training oval and elite aquatic and gym facilities for the Hawks men’s and women’s teams. But the club has dramatically increased the scope of the original design to now also include a local indoor sports stadium including six basketball and netball courts. There will also be three community sporting fields, including a main oval with a 500-seat stand and full-sized men’s and women’s change rooms.

While the Hawks believe the elite facility will help secure their home in Melbourne’s southeast for the next 100 years, CEO Justin Reeves said about two thirds of the land will be open to community use. “We have travelled around, and spent a lot of time with Tottenham Hotspur and other elite clubs, and we think this will be one of the best facilities in the world,” Reeves said. “Certainly, there aren’t many places like it that will combine a world-class sporting club with facilities exclusive to the public in the one area.”
.......
The club initially eyed a $50 million training base, but have embarked on a significant redesign over the past two years to include extensive community facilities, including a new indoor stadium and three training ovals and full-sized men’s and women’s change rooms. There will be one MCG-sized training oval for the Hawks, as well as elite aquatic and recovery facilities, a state-of-the-art gym and indoor training space for the players and coaches.

https://outline.com/2HHjmh

 

[Andre]

I have kept a word document from 2015 to mid last year of all the proposed new training facilities in the league and threatened a few times to start a thread called Mega Facilities - The New Arms Race in Footy, but I had over 100 pages of links, photos, copied articles etc and couldn't be stuffed trimming it back. I did do a short list in 2018 Members Convention thread in February last year HERE and copied it into the Alberton Oval precinct redevelopment thread a month later.

Everyone bar Port, Melbourne,Adelaide and the Swans had proposals until we made our announcement last year, and Essendon and the Bulldogs had finished their $30m facilities and Richmond had started when I started collecting the info in 2015.

The original plan for the Hawks was about $30m and then by 2016 it was a $60m facility which included 2 ovals one Docklands sized and the other MCG sized and they bought the land in early 2017 for $8m. So why the extra $70m?? They have a women's team coming in 2022, realised if you want government $$$ you need a big community aspect and have added new community sports facilities and fields and went and saw what the world is doing and have copied some of that and its a blow out - well not really if they get $50m from government which was never budgeted for in the original $30m and then $60m proposal.

https://outline.com/2HHjmh
It includes an MCG-sized training oval and elite aquatic and gym facilities for the Hawks men’s and women’s teams. But the club has dramatically increased the scope of the original design to now also include a local indoor sports stadium including six basketball and netball courts. There will also be three community sporting fields, including a main oval with a 500-seat stand and full-sized men’s and women’s change rooms.

While the Hawks believe the elite facility will help secure their home in Melbourne’s southeast for the next 100 years, CEO Justin Reeves said about two thirds of the land will be open to community use. “We have travelled around, and spent a lot of time with Tottenham Hotspur and other elite clubs, and we think this will be one of the best facilities in the world,” Reeves said. “Certainly, there aren’t many places like it that will combine a world-class sporting club with facilities exclusive to the public in the one area.”
.......
The club initially eyed a $50 million training base, but have embarked on a significant redesign over the past two years to include extensive community facilities, including a new indoor stadium and three training ovals and full-sized men’s and women’s change rooms. There will be one MCG-sized training oval for the Hawks, as well as elite aquatic and recovery facilities, a state-of-the-art gym and indoor training space for the players and coaches.

https://outline.com/2HHjmh

So unless Port wants to relocate further from the city they should be buying up any properties around Alberton Oval on the market the next few years (rent them out in the short term), until they have the grants, sponsors etc. to buy the rest, demolish and create a sporting / learning precinct. Step 1 is our short sighted President and CEO realising money isn't going to fall from the sky for it, so start treating China seriously, as it's the most likely solution.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

So unless Port wants to relocate further from the city they should be buying up any properties around Alberton Oval on the market the next few years (rent them out in the short term), until they have the grants, sponsors etc. to buy the rest, demolish and create a sporting / learning precinct. Step 1 is our short sighted President and CEO realising money isn't going to fall from the sky for it, so start treating China seriously, as it's the most likely solution.

Bingo.

It's why those who call Lockhart Road egotistical and self serving just don't understand the big picture and the future.

 

[Freak Dodgeball Accident]

I r

Come on, their pokies, being a big powerful Vic club, Kennettks political contacts, wth all those Premierships helps their cause massively and the Vic government is putting heaps into the AFL clubs over there. Ii have heard nothing from Marshall saying we are getting even a brass razoo for our centre of excellence and aboriginal centre .

Getting kissed on the dick with those priority picks certainly helped.

 

[Hammer#8]

An equalised salary cap and to an extent priority pick/draft concessions become even more pointless now.

The best out-of-contract players at interstate clubs will continue to nominate the top-tier Vic clubs. Outside base cap theres facilities, exposure, side roles that a player can benefit from.

 

[Forzaport]

Need to turn the seat of Port Adelaide into a swing seat instead of safe Labor. Then we’ll get those juicy pork barrelled grants that Geelong enjoy.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Sorry to break the circlejerk, but please point me where the AFL has committed to funding it? And if they eventually do it will be a relatively minor amount late in the process.

The Hawks have done the heavy lifting here, building momentum in the project negotiating with councils & developers, drawing on wealthy supporters, then convincing financial backers with a compelling case. Now they'll go to the government and AFL bodies with a very strong argument that it's not pie in the sky stuff - it's happening so get on board with it. And guess what, they will probably get the remaining funds.

That's what it takes. No reason why the PAFC cannot achieve the same vision should the powers that be prioritise it, but whether rightly or wrongly it sounds as though we are putting the majority of the huge amount of energy and cohesion required into other endeavours (ie. China, Indigenous Community Programs, fighting fires on the SMA front and surely soon enough AFLW & a national mens reserves side will be on the agenda).

One thing is certain - it definitely won't be achieved by anyone sitting on here dick in hand bleating about life being so unfair and "Gil-the-dill" and whatnot.

The AFL didn't have to commit funding to this because the AFL have given the Hawks plenty of free kicks in the build up to this.

The Hawks have been smart and worked hard, done the heavy lifting and I have enormous respect for Ian Dicker who used his brains and cheque book for 10 years to get the Hawks out of the s**t of a merger in 1996 to the precipice of greatness when he left in 2006.

The Hawks had a long term lease at Waverley Park with the AFL, when the AFL salivated over the prospect of becoming the main tenant at Docklands and own it on 31/12/25 for just $30 after paying $30m in 2000. The Hawks had about 15 years of a 20 year lease left at Waverley Park. St Kilda only had a few years left on their lease. The AFL needed to close Waverley to make Docklands work, so they gave a big cash pay out to the Hawks, they negotiated with Mirvac to leave the Sir Kenneth Luke Stand at Waverley to be the Hawks new HQ, facilities and space to rent out to a few local businesses and for Mirvac to help pay for a large part of the fit out of the stand and the oval for bugger all. That's a great free kick from the AFL. Sure the AFL helped us get from Footy Park to AO but we didn't get this long term asset as part of the deal that we can sell off.


The Hawks get all this below, for bugger all!





The Hawks were smart and moved home games to the MCG, knowing a big upgrade was coming with the Commonwealth Games being held there in 2006. The Saints were blinded by the shiny new stadium and bought the AFL's bullshit how good Docklands would be for them.

Then there is Tassie. Another huge free kick. The AFL negotiated the deal with the government to take the Hawks and Saints to Tassie for $500k a game each in 2001, but the Saints gave up at the end of 2006. The AFL did this because they sold Waverley Park and had to help out the 2 tenant clubs.

The Hawks worked hard and smart and stayed in Tassie. Kennett helped negotiate a great deal with Tassie government for up to $16.5 with all the bonuses for 2007-11 period, but it started off at $1.8m for the billboard component of being on the jumper as a Joint Major Sponsor and $1.2m for 4 games and let the Hawks sell memberships and keep that revenue stream, that's why they reduced the $500k per game to $300k per game and provided more corporate spaces for the Hawks to sell as well as pay for the upgrade of York Park. The 2012-16 deal was about $18m and the 2017-21 deal is about $19.5m

That $1.8m billboard sponsorship component for a JMS in 2007 for a side that had struggled for several years, was a $1m premium on a JMS in 2007 for a side like the Hawks. Get a $1m sponsorship premium for 15 years and it makes you a hell of a lot more financially stable and able to fund your footy department.

The AFL told Port to make the NT a secondary market like the Hawks made Tassie their secondary market. How do I know this? Deputy Chair Kevin Osborn told me in late 2011 as he was frustrated that we had 2 away games in NT in 2010 and 2011 but then the AFL cut that to one in 2012 and 2013 after telling us to work the NT market harder.

But Port couldnt sell home games to NT, we just could only do a deal with NT government to split any gate receipts left over after Melbourne sold its tickets and memberships. Chump change compared to Tassie and the SANFL were never going to let us sell home games there like the Hawks could and they get replacement games in Melbourne for their members - thanks to the AFL.

Then there is priority picks. Free kick Hawthorn - and other Vic clubs. When the Hawks were s**t in 2004 they got pick 2 as a priority to go with pick 5. Once again they were smart, they took Roughead at pick 2, knowing Richmond would take him at pick 5, but wouldn't take Franklin at pick 5. So they get 2 not 1 x 15 year KPF in one draft. In 2006 they get priority pick 3 to go with pick 6. They don't use 6 wisely on Dowler but get future premiership player Xavier Ellis with 3. They won 4 games in 2004 and 5 in 2005.

In 2011 when we were s**t and won 3 games did we get pick 2+5?? Pig's arse. In 2012 when we won 5.5 games and probably wouldn't have drawn that last game against Richmond if priority picks were still around, did we get picks 4+8?? Pig's arse.

Edit I forgot another AFL free kick to Hawthorn. Introduce 2 new teams as they are peaking with Roughead and Franklin and others in that 25-29 year age group, which dilutes the talent and means the teams on the bottom stay there longer as they dont get access to as much of this talent and the teams at the top stay there longer if they keep their existing talent. Plus free agency is introduced as they are at their peak and can use the lure of a flag to attract free agents over others.

Then there were the pokies. Port after the merger with the Magpies had 73 machines. But Xenephon over the years got the rules changed so that only coins can be used and pokies barely break even in SA. In Victoria you can gamble with notes, but I know it has decreased from its 2010 level, which IIRC was $50.

In 2010 the Vic goverment broke open the pokie duopoly and the Hawks made their play and they won out big time compared to several other clubs. From an article Caro wrote in mid 2010 and I posted at

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/pafc-financial-stability.655455/page-6#post-19554229
SEVERAL Melbourne-based AFL clubs are involved in a bitter feud over the spoils of a multi-million-dollar bonanza to be reaped from the state government's recent auction of poker machine licences. The pokies auction has secured the short-term futures of several clubs after they managed to secure licences at massively discounted prices.

But the Western Bulldogs and Richmond are seething after Carlton took over some of their lucrative venues - thanks to the intervention of pokies king and former Carlton director Bruce Mathieson.

The Blues have gone from having one pokies venue to four, with at least 260 machines secured at the bargain basement price of $5500 each.
.....
* The Bulldogs have finished up with 55 machines, which the club purchased at an average cost of $62,000 each.
Licences for the state's 27,500 poker machine were sold as a result of the government's decision to end the duopoly on licences previously held by Tattersall's and Tabcorp.

* Hawthorn was celebrating after the silent auction, having paid the $5500 minimum for some 100 machines for which it had considered bidding as much as $110,000 each.

* Melbourne's board allocated $4 million for 92 machines at the Mathieson-owned Leighoak club, but ended up paying just $370,000.

Collingwood, St Kilda and Essendon - like Melbourne - took up the option of buying licences for 40 machines before the auction, paying between $25,000 and $40,000 each, before securing the balance of their machines at auction for just $5500 each..

So the Hawks were prepared to spend $11m on pokies but only spent $550k. That's why they could go and borrow $12m and buy 73% of the Caroline Springs JV for WestWaters Hotel & Entertainment Complex and stick the pokies there that generate $3m profit a year for the last few years for the Hawks and why they could buy the Dingley land for $8m from cash reserves without borrowing anything in 2017, and had over $30m of cash and investments at end of 2018. Don't stick the pokies in their heartland of the leafy eastern suburbs, but out west in the lower socio-economic suburbs.

So yes the Hawks have worked bloody hard and smart, but they have received a few Matthew Nicholls at York Park type frees kicks and 50m penalties from the AFL, that have put them in a position to make those moves. We were shackled for years by the SANFL and the SMA is attempting to maintain those shackles, and we never got those free kicks and 50m penalties go our way that the Hawks got. That's why I posted above in reply to Andre, that anyone who thinks what Lockhart Road is writing about China that he is being egotistical or self serving, just doesn't understand the big picture and the future.

 

[edgie]

RussellEbertHandball Didn't St Kilda have an alcoholic president at the time that has admitted to making big decisions while drunk?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

RussellEbertHandball Didn't St Kilda have an alcoholic president at the time that has admitted to making big decisions while drunk?

Rod Butterss was the president. He has admitted to often using cocaine at the time he was president. I don't remember him saying he was an alcoholic, but that doesn't mean I'm right.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

RussellEbertHandball Didn't St Kilda have an alcoholic president at the time that has admitted to making big decisions while drunk?

So it was both alcohol and drugs. probably makes sense why Dicker made smart decisions for the Hawks and Butterss dumb ones for the Saints.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/399db3cf337861261f64a953431a779b
ROD Butterss has detailed how his time as president of St Kilda was fuelled by alcohol and cocaine.
The former high-flying businessman spoke to the Herald Sun about his alcoholism in late 2014, where he first revealed he had been an alcoholic throughout his tenure at the Saints.

BUTTERSS IN 2014: ALCOHOL AFFECTED PRESIDENCY

He again spoke of his issues on The Footy Show last night, where he again spoke of the key decisions made while he was affected by intoxicants. One of those decisions included the hiring - and firing - of AFL legend Malcolm Blight as coach in 2000-01. He told Channel 9 he had never seen cocaine until he joined St Kilda. “(AFL is) a party environment after dark, there’s a lot of drugs,” Butterss, 58, said. “A lot of drugs. A lot of alcohol, a lot of gambling.”
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/399db3cf337861261f64a953431a779b

 

[Steve Dore]

So it was both alcohol and drugs. probably makes sense why Dicker made smart decisions for the Hawks and Butters dumb ones for the Saints.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/399db3cf337861261f64a953431a779b
ROD Butterss has detailed how his time as president of St Kilda was fuelled by alcohol and cocaine.
The former high-flying businessman spoke to the Herald Sun about his alcoholism in late 2014, where he first revealed he had been an alcoholic throughout his tenure at the Saints.

BUTTERSS IN 2014: ALCOHOL AFFECTED PRESIDENCY

He again spoke of his issues on The Footy Show last night, where he again spoke of the key decisions made while he was affected by intoxicants. One of those decisions included the hiring - and firing - of AFL legend Malcolm Blight as coach in 2000-01. He told Channel 9 he had never seen cocaine until he joined St Kilda. “(AFL is) a party environment after dark, there’s a lot of drugs,” Butterss, 58, said. “A lot of drugs. A lot of alcohol, a lot of gambling.”
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/399db3cf337861261f64a953431a779b

No wonder Andrew Jarman thinks this guy plays for Port Power

 

[Duck Farmer]

a) it's meant to represent Thor's cape
b) Sydney now have to wear their predominantly white jersey (which I don't mind actually)
c) what a shambles of a sell out

It's amazing what desperate clubs will do for a few bucks.

Now that I've said that we'll probably ask Kenny to change his name by deed poll to Chum for a round or two.

 

[Alyx]

Okay.

Cool.

What were you trying to do up until now, Carlton?

 

[DaTBird187]

What is Sticks looking at?

 

[MitchIn3D]

What is Sticks looking at?

A big wall of spoons

 

[Elite Crow]

View attachment 634741

The family club.

You’ve got pokies don’t you?

 

[edgie]

You’ve got pokies don’t you?

We don't bang the door down about being a family club. We are simply a club, open to families. Families that include adults who might like to have a flutter.

How many pokies would yous have if you could? Plenty of oldies to steal away from the RSLs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GoPorts]

A big wall of spoons

All of their number one draft picks. Can extend it out further now

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Papa G]

You’ve got pokies don’t you?

Yep. It's not on the agricultural scale that many other clubs do (including some SANFUL clubs) don't think its particularly profitable for us either.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Hawthorn has signed 209-centimetre ruckman Ned Reeves, the son of club CEO Justin, ahead of the pre-season supplemental period deadline.

Reeves has been training at the club since January, having been listed with the Box Hill Hawks in 2018 but playing for St Kevin’s Old Boys in the VAFA.