Preview RND 1 - Carlton v Richmond - Thursday 21st March 7:20PM @ MCG - Team Post #1412

[Macca43]

Not a valid argument.

At any time JSOS is in the middle, somebody gets pushed into the forward line. Whether it's Murphy, Fisher, SPS, Dow, whoever - one of those players is playing in a forward pocket so Jack can play on the ball. Doesn't matter if they share that time. It's still one of the preferred midfielders playing forward so Jack can be accommodated.

Flip it. Gibbons spends most of his time on ground in the forward pocket, with occasional stints on ball. Murphy, Fisher, SPS, Dow spend more time on the ball.

I'd rather a faster midfield and a mature age, undersized mid who applies pressure in the forward pocket, than a slower midfield and all the outside mids having to take a turn through the forward pocket.

I'm not convinced JSOS offers enough at senior level as an on-baller to justify that selection. He may in time, I hope so, that would be amazing. But between Cripps, Setterfield and rotations from Curnow, I think we have enough tall mids that we don't need to squeeze in another. Three at any given stoppage is too many and hurts us on the spread, so two mostly-mids and one mostly-fwd-but-can-mid does the job.

Unless we want to play JSOS mostly forward or back, I think he's hovering behind Cripps and Setterfield, and battling with Kennedy for the honour of being next in line.

Of course it is valid, it just isn't your argument.

Lets just say Gibbons spends 80% of his time forward and gets pantsed - we are stuck.

Play JSOS and their small defender has to play on a 190cm leading forward one minute, SPS the next, Fisher the next, Murphy the next,maybe Dow, maybe even Thomas goes through as JSOS can play back - we are constantly asking questions of their defence.

On the other end we can have smalls running through the middle with Murphy, Walsh, Dow, SPS, Fisher & Cuningham or we can go big with Jack, Cripps Setterfield & Ed or more likely we can always have a 3-2 split of different smalls and talls in the middle.

Options are good, rotations are good. We don't have a small forward good enough to exist only as a small forward (unless Fasolo hits his potential) so we need to use constant rotations to keep the players in the game and keep the defence guessing.

 

[HARKER]

the midfield mix is certainly starting to look delicious .

They all apply pressure without a second thought, also.
Not sure who good this group may go even this year, with a Gawn or Grundy feeding it to them.

Happy with Phillips being up against Nankervis next Thursday.
Should be jumping all over him, early on at least.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I really want JSOS to make it, but I reckon his best bet at AFL level is as an inside mid, who is handy resting forward.

As much as I'd like him to make it with us I think he may find himself behind a few.

If I were him I'd be looking at Essendon or St Kilda for a trade (which would make me sick).

 

[Soapy V]

Again rotations.

Yep. Different positioning, set ups etc. Not an issue

 

[Soapy V]

Word is there is a bit of a praccy match today or tomorrow.

Wonder is a Lobbe/Phillips, Polson/Fasolo or a Jack/Kennedy play off may be happening?

 

[HBF]

JSOS is as quick and Gibbons and Polson.

Selection comes down to form for mine.

JSOS has shown his dedication to tackle and pressure opponents.

Wait what.
No chance Jack is as quick as Polson.
No chance at all.

 

[HBF]

the midfield mix is certainly starting to look delicious .

Thanks Bruce.

 

[Laphroaig]

Of course it is valid, it just isn't your argument.

Lets just say Gibbons spends 80% of his time forward and gets pantsed - we are stuck.

Play JSOS and their small defender has to play on a 190cm leading forward one minute, SPS the next, Fisher the next, Murphy the next,maybe Dow, maybe even Thomas goes through as JSOS can play back - we are constantly asking questions of their defence.

Still adds up to the same thing, no matter how it is dressed up. Shaking up things in the forward line is a valid strategy at times. What it is not, though, is valid reason to select a player as a midfielder when he is several steps down the waiting list at the current time.

When emotional attachment is put aside, we have a number of potential midfielders in the same boat. The answer for each is the same. They have to earn selection in another role, hold their place on merit, fill in some rotations through the midfield, move up the queue.

Cuningham is way out front on that basis, both in his assigned role and with some nice contributions when rotating through the midfield.

Jury is out on Gibbons, but he has done enough. Some would say barely enough, but there's zero point in listing him if we don't intend to see what he's got. We already know he's the best player in the VFL. We need to find out if he can grow.

Any AFL quality midifelder is capable of holding down a place on a flank or in a pocket on merit. If Silvagni can't do that, then it is just wishful thinking to assume that he can walk into the midfield ahead of better credentialed players.

 

[JustaBattler]

I wouldn't have Kennedy in for Gibbons as he's not a forward. Silvagni is a possibility. Kennedy has some things he needs to tick off at the lower level before he breaks into that side from what I've seen just as O'Brien does. I would not be at all surprised to see Silvagni move past Kennedy actually, I think he's a lot better mover for a midfielder and in general, is capable of playing forward and back, is significantly better defensively and at this stage has a similar ball winning ability. Gibbons probably ticks that quicker small forward box though whereas Silvagni is more the medium forward/mid.

I'd rather us be quick, skillful and tough than big.

.......

I disagree with most of what you have written and here is why:

1. Kennedy played as a HFF and rotation into midfield for GWS in his second year - for most of the season until he got injured and missed finals. he is a class player who has been cruelled by inury and mismanagement to date - please don't compare his ability to Gibbons or Jack Sylvagni at this stage - let alone Polson - none of those blokes woudl even be on GWS NEAFL list.
2. SOS paid 2 second rounders for him - he was a key 'get' and a target get just as much as Plowman/Marchbank were from GWS- did you forget?
3. You haven't seen any of Kennedy fit in 2018 so what are you talking about regarding 'from what you've seen"?
4. On what basis do you say Jack is "significantly better defensively?" - seriously on what basis?

Carlton needs to be able to win clearances without Cripps at the center bounce - you need someone who can step in and match it with bigger bodies when required - he comes in because he is another who is a genuine midfield and HFF rotation option - can take a contested mark and can kick straight.

Gibbons or Polson lose out to Fasolo - not Kennedy in the first instance - do you seriously rate Polson or Gibbons as a better forward option than Fasolo?
Kennedy coming in allows for Thomas to play forward pocket or another small fast player to rotate in there - exactly how he was set up to play last year and probably where he will be playing when Marchbank/Williamson come back in.

Kennedy AND Fasolo inclusion improves midfield rotations massively as well as creating smarter better options forward - no brainer.

the only reason Bolton doesn't play Kennedy is if he isnt fit. The only reason Bolton doesn't play Fasolo is if he isnt fit - otherwise he goes into season one blockbuster consciously playing 2 VFL quality experiments in Gibbons and Polson - both having done nothing much in JLT2- which was a far better indicator of AFL levels of intensity that JLT1 praccy match.

My concern is Bolton might be biased towards short blokes who cant tackle /handball/ kick or score goals and cause turnovers 9/10 times they actually touch the ball - that is Polson right now - he should be first out and if Fasolo doesn't play, Bolton goes on to immediate coach watch in my books.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I just don’t see a role for JSOS first up. If we try playing him as a 4th forward we are way too top heavy and even then Broard or Vlastuin would have his measure anyway. If McGovern wasn’t to play we are better off going small than letting Grimes play on him.
We need small nimble defenders not JSOS.
If we want extra grunt in the midfield than play Ed in there.

Maybe if Richmond play three tall forwards than he might get a gig to play on Martin when he pushes forward but I would much prefer to give Newman that role.

 

[Soapy V]

I just don’t see a role for JSOS first up. If we try playing him as a 4th forward we are way too top heavy and even then Broard or Vlastuin would have his measure anyway. If McGovern wasn’t to play we are better off going small than letting Grimes play on him.
We need small nimble defenders not JSOS.
If we want extra grunt in the midfield than play Ed in there.

Maybe if Richmond play three tall forwards than he might get a gig to play on Martin when he pushes forward but I would much prefer to give Newman that role.

I would think having Jack gives us great options. Play as a mid but can go forward or back if we have issues or injuries. Good balance IMO

 

[HARKER]

1. Kennedy played as a HFF and rotation into midfield for GWS in his second year - for most of the season until he got injured and missed finals. he is a class player who has been cruelled by inury and mismanagement to date - please don't compare his ability to Gibbons or Jack Sylvagni at this stage - let alone Polson - none of those blokes woudl even be on GWS NEAFL list.
2. SOS paid 2 second rounders for him - he was a key 'get' and a target get just as much as Plowman/Marchbank were from GWS- did you forget?
3. You haven't seen any of Kennedy fit in 2018 so what are you talking about regarding 'from what you've seen"?
4. On what basis do you say Jack is "significantly better defensively?" - seriously on what basis?

Carlton needs to be able to win clearances without Cripps at the center bounce - you need someone who can step in and match it with bigger bodies when required - he comes in because he is another who is a genuine midfield and HFF rotation option - can take a contested mark and can kick straight.

Gibbons or Polson lose out to Fasolo - not Kennedy in the first instance - do you seriously rate Polson or Gibbons as a better forward option than Fasolo?
Kennedy coming in allows for Thomas to play forward pocket or another small fast player to rotate in there - exactly how he was set up to play last year and probably where he will be playing when Marchbank/Williamson come back in.

Kennedy AND Fasolo inclusion improves midfield rotations massively as well as creating smarter better options forward - no brainer.

the only reason Bolton doesn't play Kennedy is if he isnt fit. The only reason Bolton doesn't play Fasolo is if he isnt fit - otherwise he goes into season one blockbuster consciously playing 2 VFL quality experiments in Gibbons and Polson - both having done nothing much in JLT2- which was a far better indicator of AFL levels of intensity that JLT1 praccy match.

My concern is Bolton might be biased towards short blokes who cant tackle /handball/ kick or score goals and cause turnovers 9/10 times they actually touch the ball - that is Polson right now - he should be first out and if Fasolo doesn't play, Bolton goes on to immediate coach watch in my books.

Not two second rounders. Just the one, being pick #28.

Kennedy can play half-forward and as we know, he's as hard as they come.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Playing a year in the 2's and shifting clubs can really bring things into focus.

I have never been a big Fasolo fan but from the rumours you hear since he has come across he has said and done all the right things. If he plays to his potential consistently he will make a big difference.

Yep, we desparately need a good goal sneak, so it is up to him to own that position

 

[bmaurizio]

Kennedy and Fasolo if ready to go , should be the inclusions, for Polson and Gibbons, I’d love Jack in there too , but just can’t see it yet.
Improving midfield rotation and forward line, Matt is a battering ram of sorts, allows the youngsters to run and deliver the ball to attacking forwards and Alex the skill and experience we lack in the forward line.

 

[Soapy V]

Yep, we desparately need a good goal sneak, so it is up to him to own that position

Fasolo with Murphy and DC would be very dangerous IMO

 

[bmaurizio]

We’ll win this game our youngsters will rise to the challenge enough losing crap. Baggers to surprise with a courageous win.

 

[Aphrodite]

Richmonds preview thread is like a banter thread. **** me drunk!

That's Groupie's Unofficial Preview Richmond v Carlspoon thread.

They don't have their Rnd 1 thread up yet.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I would think having Jack gives us great options. Play as a mid but can go forward or back if we have issues or injuries. Good balance IMO

I think it sounds better in theory than what it really is.
He has no matchups that suit him as a defender and they have perfect matchups for him as a forward. We would be playing into their hands playing him at either end imo.

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

kennedy not so sure. We can win the ball without him ATM. we need to kick 100+ again. So focus back to the forwards. Fas not sure either. Really want him to triple earn his spot. Gibbons has looked a tad arsey to me. Cracks in and has done some good things. Jack needs to play. His tackling is handy and pressure around stoppages inside 50 isn't shabby. He's starting to make a bit of nuisance of himself and brings a bit of terrier. As for Polson he moves very well. He's bloody quick too. I really wanna persist with him I think he can something. Made some odd decisions here and there but has the buidling blocks. Also think phillips has shown enough. Getting dragged around by the big Brundy was a good clinic/lesson for him.

 

[Aphrodite]

6 more sleeps!

 

[Aphrodite]

Wouldn't have thought finishing 1st by 2 games and percentage is a massive fail, and losing in a prelim certainly doesnt make us one hit wonders like the dogs.

I get you're on your own board and you can say what you like, but at least try bait me with some creativity...

There was no baiting at all from GS.

 

[Soapy V]

I think it sounds better in theory than what it really is.
He has no matchups that suit him as a defender and they have perfect matchups for him as a forward. We would be playing into their hands playing him at either end imo.

Disagree

 

[LanceRomance]

Fasolo with Murphy and DC would be very dangerous IMO

Good point, All capable of making something out of nothing.

 

[Nori]

A player also needs to be able to execute the basic skills to an acceptable level atm Polson is nowhere near that level to play senior football .
Otherwise all that is gained is a compromising of standards and selection transparency .
He needs to go back to reserves level and get some leather poisoning .
BTW im a Polson fan .

That's definitely a fair call based on exposed form, but I wouldn't read too much into his preseason games and his speed against Richmond would be very useful.

I'd reckon the selectors will be more interested in his form towards the end of last season than what happened in the JLT. We also don't know how he's been going in the intra club game simulations. For all we know he might have been smashing it.

 

[Soapy V]

We’ll win this game our youngsters will rise to the challenge enough losing crap. Baggers to surprise with a courageous win.

At least you didn’t say brave