Religion Pell Guilty!

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Jun 10, 2014
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Actually we don't know what he wore underneath, could have been nothing, trousers and belt or trackie pants.

I guess this is why we can question but only those in court actually know what the evidence is.

I suppose in the end you just have to place your belief in the system and I don't envy anyone on that jury.
I wonder how they must be feeling reading Bolt and co?

Would bet my right one (lost my left one betting on not guilty) that it would have been white shirt black trousers and belt - standard wear. Can’t speak to underwear.


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That is the nub of it. Don’t forget that there would have likely also been belt pants and jocks to negotiate whilst holding up robe - not sure whether kid was being held as well. The testimony must have been compelling.


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He was also going himself whilst going one of the kids at the same time. Still not sure whether or how he disposed of his headgear and his staff. Whilst of course blocking the doorway preventing escape. And hoping this was that one day in a million that no one happened upon the sacristy for the period the offense took place.
 

GuruJane

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Lift it up from the bottom like you would a dress, when there's an erect pedophile priest penis there is a will and a way.

It sounds like the old "If it doesn't fit you must acquit." defense tactic.

That's what I thought at first- was going to ask if he'd hitched the vestments up.

But that's not what the evidence was - it was detailed that both hands were free to perform the deeds. It's in the transcript of sentencing.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...-chief-judge-peter-kidd/ar-BBUI2hE?li=AAgfIYZ
 

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M Malice

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That's what I thought at first- was going to ask if he'd hitched the vestments up.

But that's not what the evidence was - it was detailed that both hands were free to perform the deeds. It's in the transcript of sentencing.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...-chief-judge-peter-kidd/ar-BBUI2hE?li=AAgfIYZ
I'm sure the best defense/justice money could buy:rolleyes: would have mentioned all of this, I don't think the BF SRP board has discovered something new that has blown this case wide open.

Pedophile Pell is hardly wearing a chastity belt although maybe it should be a standard issue with all clergy uniform/clown suits.
 

chelseacarlton

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Yes. He was apparently able to access his Johnson through all of these with one hand. I wonder whether he carefully removed his headwear and carefully placed down his walking stick thing too before the act or whether he was still wearing/holding them throughout. Because even that process is done so slowly and carefully it takes at least a minute. But he can't have. He must have just tossed these items aside because he blocked the door and prevented escape.
I totally get ya mate👍
It’s not like we’ve mapped the timeline of the universe to within a millionth of second or anything either!
It’s unpossible I tells yers!
Derp
 

M Malice

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I totally get ya mate👍
It’s not like we’ve mapped the timeline of the universe to within a millionth of second or anything either!
It’s unpossible I tells yers!
Derp
LOL!

Yep, I'm sure throughout our evolution man has conquered more onerous tasks than the mammoth effort:rolleyes: it would have taken for Pedophile Pell to unhinge his penis to satisfy carnal urges.
 

Demosthenes

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The judges that sit on the appeal cannot supplant their judgment for the judgment of the jury, that is not how appeals work. That is specifically not how appeals on the grounds of unreasonableness work.
I wasn't claiming it did.
 
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I am definitely not arguing in favour of anything like the Ellis defence resulting in a fair outcome for an abuse survivor. I understand that defence came after the establishment of the Melbourne Response?

And I do certainly not want to come across as defending the vile and evil that has been perpetrated. I was merely positing that Pell’s establishment of the Melbourne response was at the absolute vanguard of action of making amends for this evil. Long before the rest of the world.

Raising the cap limit - agree, the more the better. But there must be some limit? What do you suggest?

Query what sort of system could be less adversarial? Applicant meets with an independent commissioner and tells their story. No cross-examination, no requirement for evidence other than testimony. What do you think is a better solution?


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A couple of points - read it listen to Bp Geoffrey Robinson on why Pell went first with the Melbourne Response (I can assure you it was all about asset protection) and nothing to do with what Pell tried to claim. Second and listen to this very carefully...there is no amount of money in the world that accurately compensate for what occurred to any victim. Yet we are required to prove financial loss and accept cap limits from courts or the organisation that allowed us to be abused. The system is inadequate at best and totally corrupt at its worst.
 

Jack Gun Cyril Stun

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He was also going himself whilst going one of the kids at the same time. Still not sure whether or how he disposed of his headgear and his staff. Whilst of course blocking the doorway preventing escape. And hoping this was that one day in a million that no one happened upon the sacristy for the period the offense took place.

Your honour, how could he possibly take off a hat...the defense rests.
 
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A couple of points - read it listen to Bp Geoffrey Robinson on why Pell went first with the Melbourne Response (I can assure you it was all about asset protection) and nothing to do with what Pell tried to claim. Second and listen to this very carefully...there is no amount of money in the world that accurately compensate for what occurred to any victim. Yet we are required to prove financial loss and accept cap limits from courts or the organisation that allowed us to be abused. The system is inadequate at best and totally corrupt at its worst.

I have read that thank you and sorry for whatever may have happened to you. I am certainly not saying that money can adequately compensate a survivor. However, what do you suggest as an alternative?

And just to rebut a few of your points - respectfully, there is no need to prove only financial loss (although that would add to one’s claim - say for loss of earnings due to incapacity). The MR/courts will award compensation based on other considerations/damages. How was the MR all about asset protection when it only added to a survivor’s existing rights at common law? Without doubt it cost the Melbourne Archdiocese more than waiting for legal actions.

As to Pell setting up the MR before and outside of Towards Healing, well that is a matter for bishops to argue over. But the MR came first.


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GuruJane

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Jury should have been advised to try vestments on as it was clearly an issue.

The other issue was the aftermath of Sunday Mass at St Patrick's. Jury was taken to visit cathedral when it was empty of people.
 
He was also going himself whilst going one of the kids at the same time. Still not sure whether or how he disposed of his headgear and his staff. Whilst of course blocking the doorway preventing escape. And hoping this was that one day in a million that no one happened upon the sacristy for the period the offense took place.
Or due to power imbalance issues he may not have needed to physically force them but used their fear of being caught where they should not be and submitting to being abused
(Obviously speculation as I do not know the evidence)
 

GuruJane

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Was this addressed by the defence?
Was this issue canvassed in the cross examination of the witness?

We don't know and may never know.

Extraordinarily, both trials were held in complete secrecy and the journalists were not even allowed to view the witness'evidence or the defence's cross examination . Unbelieveable, especially given the complainant was the sole evidence against the accused.

How this trial conduct of secrecy over the complainant may have prejudiced the jury in complainants favor is not known.
 
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GuruJane

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The defence wasn't going to ask for that, it knew the jig was up once they'd examined and handled them.
Bad tactics to keepn drawing attention to a failed one.

You would expect it would be required of the prosecution to PROVE that the vestments could not impede the acts alleged.

Remember, there is only one witness against the accused. Only one.
 
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You would expect it would be required of the prosecution to PROVE that the vestments could not impede the acts alleged.

Remember, there is only one witness against the accused. Only one.
Of all the red herrings dragged across this thread by the Pellian apologists, this business of the vestments is the reddest and most stinking.

The catholic church is 1500 odd years old.
Despite its claimed attention to the sky life, it has always been an intensely practical, earthly mob.
These beautiful sets of frocks were based on the antecedent Roman dress.
The Romans had to piss just like everybody else, and they did it without any recorded help.
The frocks have been modified over the 1500 years.
Throughout that time, they have been worn by 80 and 90 year old men.
Men notoriously liable to bladder problems.
Men who need to piss often and in a hurry.
The suggestion that the frocks prevent them doing so is just inherently ludicrous.

It's not even grasping at straws.

It's just another case of Bruce making things up out of the whole cloth (so to speak:D).
 

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We don't know and may never know.
Do you think it is probable that Richter pursued this issue? Do you have any reason to believe that he did not?
Extraordinarily, both trials were held in complete secrecy and the journalists were not even allowed to view the witness'evidence or the defence's cross examination . Unbelieveable, especially given the complainant was the sole evidence against the accused.
Is it really extraordinary in sexual assault cases? How rare is it? One in 5 cases? One in 50? Can you clarify this?
How this trial conduct of secrecy over the complainant may have prejudiced the jury in complainants favor is not known.
I think you mean “if”, rather than “how”.

Or perhaps you don’t. Why would in camera evidence prejudice the jury? Do you know whether the judge cautioned the jury about this?
 
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Or due to power imbalance issues he may not have needed to physically force them but used their fear of being caught where they should not be and submitting to being abused
(Obviously speculation as I do not know the evidence)
That's what happened, according to the judge in his sentencing remarks, when he was addressing the questions of trust and authority.
 

Jack Gun Cyril Stun

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Of all the red herrings dragged across this thread by the Pellian apologists, this business of the vestments is the reddest and most stinking.

The catholic church is 1500 odd years old.
Despite its claimed attention to the sky life, it has always been an intensely practical, earthly mob.
These beautiful sets of frocks were based on the antecedent Roman dress.
The Romans had to piss just like everybody else, and they did it without any recorded help.
The frocks have been modified over the 1500 years.
Throughout that time, they have been worn by 80 and 90 year old men.
Men notoriously liable to bladder problems.
Men who need to piss often and in a hurry.
The suggestion that the frocks prevent them doing so is just inherently ludicrous.

It's not even grasping at straws.

It's just another case of Bruce making things up out of the whole cloth (so to speak:D).

Yes, 100%.

Whether you think Pell is guilty or not, this crap about not being able to manoeuvre an Alb, Cincture and Chasuble is a poor misdirection.

I was an altar boy and our local priest used to dress and undress that stuff by himself including being able to change the microphone settings in his pocket during mass.

As for the cincture, spare me. I wore one, how does that stop lifting up a garment my unless its tied around your thighs.

And the added impediment of taking a hat off and leaning a staff against a wall (that can take up to a minute apparently...wtf!?) as an improbability to the assault is pathetic.

As if Richter wouldn’t have torn the prosecution to pieces if any of this was helpful to creating any reasonable doubt.

If any appeal is successful it won’t be on the back of the ‘robes defence’
 
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