Society/Culture Christchurch Mosque mass shooting

[evo]

Bet they try to shut down 8chan. The guy who owns it is an intruiging character; I'm interested to see if the channel survives.

 

[PP34]

Because speaking racist thoughts let's other see who you really are. The proper punishments can be made - the proper authorities can be notified.

Hiding racism under the surface tends to push like minded ******s towards these toxic and vile sub-communities.

Why do you think they hide their racism or twist their words in a way to claim that they aren’t racist?

Because they would be vilified.

How the hell do you encourage racists to be openly racist? There’s a reason they end up in the fringes with other losers on Facebook groups or weird places like 4Chan. Because despite their stupidity they know their views aren’t compatible with mainstream society.

A better idea would be to look at what is going wrong in the world for these types to end up growing up to be losers with no friends, no sex life and ending up being radicalised by nasty areas of the internet.

 

[A Cut Above]

A lot of 70s terrorism in the West was Carlos the Jackal and Weather Underground type stuff - attacks on things like cops and political organisations. This new mode of terrorism attacks civilians, closer to what Manson envisaged.

Surely you aren't hinting that terrorism is less evil or more tolerable when the victims are police or government workers?

One of the problems with terrorism is how elastic the term is. Technically anyone can be a terrorist if they disagree with your ideology or worldview and threaten you with force if you subscribe to the notion that all our actions in the world are consciously or unconsciously political.

 

[its free real estate]

I think stuff like the Zebra killings and assorted serial killers show civilians were still targeted, it's just the people didn't latch onto political stuff as much to justify it (or perhaps just didn't have the avenues to broadcast their political views). Don't know anything stat wise to back that up though.

Dunno if the Zebra killings reach the threshold of terrorism. Racial motivated murder, but in aid of a political belief? Not sure.

 

[Malifice]

Is this transcribed from a diary you kept in the 90s?

Dont be a douchebag.

There have been numerous right wing terror attacks in recent years. Brevik, McVeigh, Roof, this *head, the Mosque shooting in Ottowa, that *head in the UK who drove his car in to the Mosque, all those 'Sovereign citizen' twits in the USA and so forth.

Ive posted articles a number of times in the past that lists RWNJ's as the second biggest terrorism threat after Islamists (and arguably a bigger threat in the West than the Islamists, who commit most of their attacks in places like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan).

This is a position mirrored by law enforcement bodies of the USA, UK, NZ, Australia and so forth.

Radicalized disenfranchised men, who adhere to a political position of hatred and othering and blame of migrants, who generally speaking are pro gun loners who spend an inordinate amount of time socially isolated and posting on the internet.

It's hardly surprising that they're dangerous.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Why does ASIO have to monitor all communications on these apps? And how exactly are they going to monitor and store what would amount to billions of GB of data, daily:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernar...wing-stats-everyone-should-read/#e809ffc60ba9

And what exactly do you think they're (ASIO) is looking for exactly?

Dick pics arent really of much interest to our security agencies and AFP mate. Only terrorists, drug traffickers and paedos.

I think its pretty safe to assume (and the legislation is worded in such a way) to say ASIO arent going to be looking at your messages (or seeking a request for decryption from your app/ media provider) without a reason (you're a suspect in a crime or are communicating with one).

Data storage is cheap and getting cheaper. But they don't have to store it all. And they can monitor it all.

The government already had the legislative and technological ability to monitor targeted individuals before the recent changes.

Now they can demand a smartphone manufacturer or an app developer or website owner to do things like installing software or providing technical information such as its source code. This facilitates ASIO applying those provisions across the whole technology rather than on individuals.

 

[largebus]

Carl Pomare was driving past the Al Noor mosque with a colleague when he heard gunfire, writes Clea Skopeliti.
Speaking to the BBC News, he said:

“I saw lots of people running outside the mosque, in the same direction as me and they were running for their lives. I said to my colleague, something’s happening here. In the next second there was rapid fire and people were being knocked down like ten-pins. I saw them being hit from behind, I saw them falling to the ground.​

“I stopped my vehicle about a hundred metres up the road and we decided we needed to go back and help these guys. We set up a cordon with another car who was luckily also a contractor. We managed to secure that end of the road and we turned and tried to help people.​

“My coworker assisted the first people he saw lying on the footpath – there were lots of bodies and there was no sirens, no police or ambulance because this had just happened. So for ten minutes there was no other outside assistance apart from the people that were just there – probably no more than six people, all civilians, just helping these people lying on the ground, fighting for their lives.​

“It wasn’t until 15 minutes later the Armed Offenders came in, police couldn’t come in until the armed offenders had and the ambulance couldn’t until they’d secured the area.​

“People were begging us take them to hospital but we couldn’t because the ambulances weren’t allowed in. In the end we made a call to get a father and a daughter who were both hurt – the daughter was critical – we got her into a car and managed to get them out pretty quickly, with the father. We don’t know if they survived.​

“The gentleman, who my coworker was supporting, passed away in his arms. It was a scene of carnage – we were there for a good 15 or 20 minutes, just civilians, helping these people as much as we could until more support came in.”​

​

​

Give the man a medal, no, more than that​

 

[its free real estate]

Surely you aren't hinting that terrorism is less evil or more tolerable when the victims are police or government workers?

From a certain point of view it is. I don't agree with it, but if you're a black nationalist in the US, who draws more ire than the cops?

Stabbing a young woman on a night out in London to death with knives strapped to your arms so they can't be knocked away, or shooting a woman begging for mercy at her place of worship is unjustifiable no matter what your frame of reference.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Fraser has not picked a good time to event an event in Melbourne with a neo nazi.

Wut?

 

[its free real estate]

Data storage is cheap and getting cheaper. But they don't have to store it all. And they can monitor it all.

The government already had the legislative and technological ability to monitor targeted individuals before the recent changes.

Now they can demand a smartphone manufacturer or an app developer or website owner to do things like installing software or providing technical information such as its source code. This facilitates ASIO applying those provisions across the whole technology rather than on individuals.

Facebook is able to figure out who you are even if you've never had a profile with them. This idea that it is impossible to monitor everyone is a furphy.

 

[Malifice]

One of the problems with terrorism is how elastic the term is.

Terrorism is defined in Australia as "an action or threat of action where the action causes certain defined forms of harm or interference and the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause".

A mass killing that isn't done with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause, aint terrorism.

For mine, i cant see how Roof got away with just mass murder, and not terrorism offences. The Yanks have a similar definition.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I wouldnt have been shocked. With the rise of Alt right ethnic nationalists such as yourself, it was only a matter of time. RWNJ's are fundamentally dominated by the 'angry disenfranchised white men with a fixation for guns who hate everyone who's different to them' who spend an awful amount of time on the internet talking politics on social media.

That's kind of the prime 'mass shooter demographic' right there.

Add to that the fact their far right wing doctrine encourages hatred, conflict and persecution of minorities and it's only a matter of time.

We've had massive Right wing terrorist attacks in the USA, Canada, UK and now NZ. Right wing terrorists are a close second in terrorism related attacks behind Islamists.

I'm only shocked it hasnt happened here in Oz yet.

(Which it almost ******* did, going by the fact the perp was Australian).

This post is the epitome of jumping the shark.

 

[biggiemediums]

The victimization of the right in here is astounding. I'm sick of hearing "both sides are as bad as each other". Show me the body count to back it up.

I don't care if I get called out for "political point scoring". Today was an absolute tragedy, but there inevitably has to be a conversation about ideology here, no matter how much people want to avoid it (for obvious reasons).

Most people on the left have never killed; most people on the right have never killed. Only the extremes throughout history have. I think that's the point of the "both sides are as bad as each other."

Why do you think they hide their racism or twist their words in a way to claim that they aren’t racist?

Because they would be vilified.

How the hell do you encourage racists to be openly racist? There’s a reason they end up in the fringes with other losers on Facebook groups or weird places like 4Chan. Because despite their stupidity they know their views aren’t compatible with mainstream society.

A better idea would be to look at what is going wrong in the world for these types to end up growing up to be losers with no friends, no sex life and ending up being radicalised by nasty areas of the internet.

Fair enough mate. Don't disagree with any of that. Meant it more in a "perfect kinda world" way!

 

[A Cut Above]

Radicalized disenfranchised men, who adhere to a political position of hatred

Ironically, you just described both the majority of white nationalists & Muslim extremists likely to commit terrorist acts.

Maybe the answer is lifting them out of poverty. With steady jobs & young families they'll have much more to lose and be less likely to become radicalized.

 

[Richard Pryor]

 

[SSwans2011]

Most people on the left have never killed; most people on the right have never killed. Only the extremes throughout history have. I think that's the point of the "both sides are as bad as each other."


Fair enough mate. Don't disagree with any of that. Meant it more in a "perfect kinda world" way!

I absolutely agree, and that notion extends to religion. The point remains though. We need to accept there are serious, serious issues with the far right moving forward though. Issues completely incomparable to those of the far left.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Facebook is able to figure out who you are even if you've never had a profile with them. This idea that it is impossible to monitor everyone is a furphy.

Bloke at work who signed up for a brand new FB account and did nothing else was getting accurate friend recommendations and targeted ads.

The new measures go way beyond this.

 

[Malifice]

This post is the epitome of jumping the shark.

How the actual * can you say that the same day a far right wing terrorist (who is a white, disenfranchised, loner and gun nut, radicalized at least partly on the internet) murders 50 people at a Mosque in New Zealand?

This description also mirrors Brevik. It mirrors Roof. It mirrors McVeigh. It mirrors Bissonnette.

Now it also describes this idiot.

 

[SSwans2011]

This post is the epitome of jumping the shark.

You're joking, right? A far right attack was not unfathomable at all. The Cronulla Riots were over a decade ago, and the anger of the far right has only intensified since then. Not to mention the similar attacks that have happened all over the world.

Edit: Heck, I'm pretty sure I've made similar predictions.

 

[its free real estate]

Bloke at work who signed up for a brand new FB account and did nothing else was getting accurate friend recommendations and targeted ads.

The new measures go way beyond this.

Before I quit the platform, I was getting friend recommendations with people I had no friend connections in common with, had not contacted on any tech platform, we'd simply been in the same place at the same time at some point (clerks, mechanic, receptionist at the doctor etc). I realised we both had FB or Instagram installed and our spatial locations had been inferred and correlated.

They do this for 3 billion people every day, correlating data that comes from banks, phones, Facebook like widgets embedded in web pages, ad networks, etc.

Laughable to think it's not possible for 20 million or so people.

 

[PP34]

Anyone who's more familiar with 4chan and 8chan.

Is it mostly trolls or are these people serious? It's genuinely baffling that anyone can be that utterly stupid. Some of the s**t they're posting about the being a Jewish Psyop; holy dumb Batman!

Probably a mix of both.

Shitposting is everywhere these days. A lot of edgy jokes, posts etc. I think some just like to engage because they’re bored or they’re lonely.

Then you’ve got the ones who do take it seriously and then you get events like today or they’re too stupid or circumstances stop them (e.g gun control or police).

 

[Balls In]

rise of Alt right ethnic nationalists such as yourself...RWNJ's are fundamentally dominated by the 'angry disenfranchised white men.... fixation for guns.. hate everyone..far right wing doctrine encourages hatred, conflict and persecution.....massive Right wing terrorist attacks in the USA, Canada, UK and now NZ. Right wing terrorists are a close second in terrorism

For crying out loud

 

[SSwans2011]

For crying out loud

You sure showed him.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

250,126 Queenslanders voted him in

250,126 Queenslanders voted for One Nation mate.

 

[Frank Bunn]

How the actual **** can you say that the same day a far right wing terrorist (who is a white, disenfranchised, loner and gun nut, radicalized at least partly on the internet) murders 50 people at a Mosque in New Zealand?

This description also mirrors Brevik. It mirrors Roof. It mirrors McVeigh. It mirrors Bissonnette.

Now it also describes this idiot.

I the actual * would tell you but you pick and choose when you want to discuss things openly and when you want to cowardly bully people off the forum with your moderator powers. How many people so far in this thread?