Society/Culture Christchurch Mosque mass shooting

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LeoMessi said:
Apologists desperately trying to give the issue a political angle by trying to make the issue and right vs left.
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...........then.........

LeoMessi said:
The issue is a crime commitred on prejudice and racial hatred. Even Hitler committed the atrocities by blaming the left. I'm seeing the same common denominator here as well
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Soft Downhill Skier said:
We all acknowledge left and right is binary and is a lazy crutch we're all guilty of.

What does that have to do with the very real threat posed by white nationalism?
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I encourage you to watch the video I posted about earlier this morning.
This isn't just about white supremacists, it goes far deeper than that.
His targeting of Muslims was a convenient tool to inflame both sides. He called out high profile gamers and prominent American politicians in the hope that even more people 'take sides'.
And it's working.
If I take the leftist side and blame white supremacists I get smashed by the right.
If I take the right side and blame Muslims for all the ills of the world I get smashed by the left.
There is no middle ground anymore.
 
Craven Morehead said:
This forum is a touchstone for the left v right divide and culture war.
I've said previously that I am basically a centreist who leans slightly to the right on fiscal matters and slightly to the left on social issues.
I've been lambasted by many, from both 'sides', stating that this is an impossibility.
You either with 'us' or you're against 'us'.
Peoples world views are far more binary than in any other time in my memory.
And it's frightening.
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I view it as compliment to be lambasted by both sides
 
Craven Morehead said:
I encourage you to watch the video I posted about earlier this morning.
This isn't just about white supremacists, it goes far deeper than that.
His targeting of Muslims was a convenient tool to inflame both sides. He called out high profile gamers and prominent American politicians in the hope that even more people 'take sides'.
And it's working.
If I take the leftist side and blame white supremacists I get smashed by the right.
If I take the right side and blame Muslims for all the ills of the world I get smashed by the left.
There is no middle ground anymore.
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How can violent white supremacists be criticised? Should they be criticised?
 
Baltimore Jack said:
If a Muslim produced an 80 page manifesto exactly the same as the Christchurch terrorist (but changed the words Islam/Muslim with Christian/Christianity) would that petrson have been on a Watch List?
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Was the manifesto there online for all to see for any length of time before his murderous rampage? I have no idea. If it was, surely someone would have reported it. Or if it was online, was it only posted up immediately prior to him heading off.
 
Craven Morehead said:
If I take the leftist side and blame white supremacists I get smashed by the right.
If I take the right side and blame Muslims for all the ills of the world I get smashed by the left.
There is no middle ground anymore.
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Actually there is CM.

The equal empowerment of all individuals at the expense of state control. It's called libertarianism.
 
Soft Downhill Skier said:
Explain to me how, or even if, white supremacist crimes should be criticised.
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In the same manner all crimes against individuals should be criticised.

The people lying in the morgue aren't arguing about the fine print.
 
Such a terrible thing to happen. I feel gutted.
I have seen the video of it and I am struck by just how dissociated he is from what he is doing. It's 100% like he is playing PUBG and thinks it's just a fun game.
Unfortunately this is going to be the norm in the Western world. There will most likely be revenge attacks somewhere, which will radicalize more people on each side and on it will go.
 

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Herne Hill Hammer said:
Does he hate Muslims, or, as in excerpts of his manifesto posted in here, does he just fear them and what may become in the future if left unchecked? He seems to have thought it was a pre-emptive strike. I dunno if I'd call that hate.
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Mental disease then.
 
Soft Downhill Skier said:
How can violent white supremacists be criticised? Should they be criticised?
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Of course they should be criticised, however I have no answer to how it can be done in the current climate without being then labelled as a LWNJ and get ripped to shreds by the right.
As stated in the video, and I agree, we have passed the point of no return.
The current agitation from both sides has reached the stage where the only outcome will be more and more violence , from both sides, which will end up in a civil war of sorts, beginning in the USA.
People are sheep, and they're currently going through the drafting gate as we speak. And that draft only has two ways.
It scares the s**t out of me.
We now have kids boycotting school to protest on issues of which they really only have a rudimentary understanding of.
Their intentions are no doubt noble, but it is a fair reflection of where society is heading if children can be manipulated into protesting.
 
Baltimore Jack said:
Leave work now and go and get some help....please
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You walk around life with "sorry" painted on your forehead and you think you are in a position to allocate rational advice?
 
Snake_Baker said:
In the same manner all crimes against individuals should be criticised.

The people lying in the morgue aren't arguing about the fine print.
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Selectively choosing when to apply the 'left vs right paradigm is hurting us' argument is not convincing anyone.

Just as there is a problem with islamists, there is also one with white supremacists.
 
BRWB said:
Nothing more blind and stupid than refusing to learn and change when awful things occcur.

Even John Howard did that post Port Arthur...or did he just bow to the 'agenda' pushed by the anti gun lobby after the Port Arthur atrocity?
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Look. At the end of the day, you could make the argument a Liberal party is preferable during times of crisis.

That is entirely a valid discussion.

As I said before, this probably isn't the time.
 
Craven Morehead said:
Of course they should be criticised, however I have no answer to how it can be done in the current climate without being then labelled as a LWNJ and get ripped to shreds by the right.
As stated in the video, and I agree, we have passed the point of no return.
The current agitation from both sides has reached the stage where the only outcome will be more and more violence , from both sides, which will end up in a civil war of sorts, beginning in the USA.
People are sheep, and they're currently going through the drafting gate as we speak. And that draft only has two ways.
It scares the s**t out of me.
We now have kids boycotting school to protest on issues of which they really only have a rudimentary understanding of.
Their intentions are no doubt noble, but it is a fair reflection of where society is heading if children can be manipulated into protesting.
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I strongly agree with you. We have reached a point of no return that will eventuate in to an horrendous outcome.
 
Soft Downhill Skier said:
Selectively choosing when to apply the 'left vs right paradigm is hurting us' argument is not convincing anyone.

Just as there is a problem with islamists, there is also one with white supremacists.
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There's nothing "selective" about my current view of the situation. The whole scenario has become a socio-political cancer.
 
Craven Morehead said:
The current agitation from both sides has reached the stage where the only outcome will be more and more violence , from both sides, which will end up in a civil war of sorts, beginning in the USA.
People are sheep, and they're currently going through the drafting gate as we speak. And that draft only has two ways.
It scares the s**t out of me.
We now have kids boycotting school to protest on issues of which they really only have a rudimentary understanding of.
Their intentions are no doubt noble, but it is a fair reflection of where society is heading if children can be manipulated into protesting.
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The both sides you speak of includes those who promote white supremacy and enable those who do the shooting, and those who protest and yell at them.

There is no '2 sides' here.

I have no idea of what the climate change protest has relevance to or why you should be scared of it.
 
Snake_Baker said:
Actually there is CM.

The equal empowerment of all individuals at the expense of state control. It's called libertarianism.
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Like Communism, it's great in theory, not so good in practice.
Libertarianism, if fully implemented, would only lead to the same outcome as what we see today.
Extreme Libertarians would demand their extreme views be taken into policy and everything would turn to s**t because...we're human beings.
 
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