Twilight Grand Final all but confirmed - but actually no!

[Carringbush2010]

Of course, I understand that, but in all games timing of situations is totally unpredictable , which for me is the whole point that grey rules need to be wiped from the game, and there are many , a block or a shepherd? ( in all this list there will be the fact of umpire perception in the split second point being there shouldn't be room for drastic repeated mistakes, because ??? THEY MAY WIN OR LOSE A GAME.
In the back, over the shoulder , around the neck hands in the back bent arm in the back, diving on a player from behind sometimes called in the back sometimes called caught with the ball, now with caught with the ball that also has many different avenues for an umpire to make a mistake, caught with, is it holding or is it holding the man in that split second where the umpire does not see properly the action of the tackled player what if he does legally get rid of it.
How many times in games do you see illegal disposal, when you know it is not, and you see it if you are an opposition spectator for or against your own
mob, how often at a game or on TV when you comment with an oppo supporter and you or they will say, gee our bloke was lucky there, how is it when that may create a score , you see to me I have been noticing this sort of thing for so many years now, that I thought last year when the AFL WANTED TO REVIEW THE WAY THE GAME LOOKED THAT THEY MAY ACTUALLY ALSO LOOK AT THE RULES???
Many of which are simply not needed, like the twisting of the out on the full rule. The Magpie Eagles last free, what if that was a player losing balance or spinning to pick the ball up , his opponent clashes physically with him and his leg or boot taps the ball when he isn't even aware, and it pops out on the full from about 30 cm out. What happened in the grand final was no better and no worse than that stupidity of the twisted Out On The Full. ( I've seen it happen,) many times over the last few years. Strangely and I saw it when Hawthorn played Fitzroy I think Fitzroy maybe Footscray many years ago in a final, where someone gave my mob Hawthorn a free very close to goal it won us the game, because of a fitzroy or footscray player deliberately moved out of bounds, it was pretty blatant action but even the Hawks couldn't believe the call maybe Brad Hardie would remember that?
NOW THAT CALL I NEVER SAW AGAIN UNTIL THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS, WHEN THEY ABUSED THE REASON FOR OUT ON THE FULL or defending by taking the ball out, DELIBERATELY OK IF THEY HAVE TO, but the stuff they call with guess work is an abomination of fairness, once you could pick a free , now when that goddamned whistle blows you are waiting to see what the umpire will call or how he saw it. THE WHISTLE!!! , its like Brando screaming STELLA!!!!
Look I won't go on, I could pick instances out that I've witnessed over the last few years and the amount of stupid unnecessary unfair free kicks also I know umpires were rubbished for ever , its just the fun is gone from the game because the umpiring has been turned into bulldust calls by administration rule changes to the game, for the game to get less physical and less like football.
That's what and why I get really angry and never shut up about it. Because what I've said years ago happened, ours is a simple tough game thats what fans want, and, its why sometimes I say where is another Kerry Packer to buy up 12 or 14 AFL clubs and make a real national comp again instead of this diluted rubbish they are selling to our kids as well as that stinking AFLX CRAP TOO.
My adult sons range from 26 to 41 three of them one of them the oldest barely watches any more and they are all members, now I don't like knoewing that 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 years olds will grow up with NO IDEA OF REAL TOP LEVEL AUSTRALIAN RULES FOOTBALL. Because this stuff now is keepings off bruise free, and the AFL had a chance to fix it, they haven't all they've done is open the ground up with zones, stupisd not needed frees are still there in horrid numbers , the whistle kills the game, because these bastards have let our game be stopped every few seconds and the flow is dead.
Now wouldn't it be nice to go back to hard quick tough football, forget the excuse that they clash into each other like motor vehicle collisions , they always have , that means nothing. Our game is hard, play it amateur or pro and its hard, I 've played in lower league footy where they ( and this is a joke) don't bring the ball out til three quarter time ( ha ha ha)
We used to go to Brunswick and Thornbury and you fought most of the bloody day, we don't need that , but these guys know the risks!Take it easy mate no harm meant but the game is so changed now.

OK a couple of points, I think you'll find that most will agree with you in how the decisions are "guessing the grey areas" and is a result of bringing rules to counteract other stupid rules brought in previously. It's no secret and the majority of fans are pissed - there's no light bulb moment for anyone.

Even so, we can only speculate on what would happen if decisions were different. What is likely is NOT fait accompli.

As far as your Kerry Packer theory I'd only think that'd work if the market wants it. The reason we have 10 teams in Melb is because the market dictates it not because it's ideal and hazard a guess the game would lose members and supporters if we had a break away league.

AFLX and the general "softening" of the game: To be fair there are societal pressures that have some blame for "softening of the game". I've been watching league footy for more than 40 years and played into my 20's and yeah it's less combative but hey I'm still watching and more are watching than ever before. As far as AFLX goes it's not directed at us it's directed at young kids and teens (and their worried mums) HQ already has a huge fan base and want to garner the next generation.

How do the reckon the mums of today would consider their young kids playing footy like it was played in the 70's and 80's? Not a hope in hell, they'd send em to a soccer club............. hence "bruise free" AFLX. Sell that to the mums and the kids might be allowed to play footy.

Lastly Footy is not and never has been simple, probably now more complicated than it has been but since day dot it has never been "simple"

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Praise the lord they didn't move it

 

[FootyJunkie]

What if the AFL moved it to 1:10pm so that Channel 7 can fit in Family Feud and Wheel of Fortune from 5pm for the old farts, forget the kids.

 

[JoondalupJ]

OK a couple of points, I think you'll find that most will agree with you in how the decisions are "guessing the grey areas" and is a result of bringing rules to counteract other stupid rules brought in previously. It's no secret and the majority of fans are pissed - there's no light bulb moment for anyone.

Even so, we can only speculate on what would happen if decisions were different. What is likely is NOT fait accompli.

As far as your Kerry Packer theory I'd only think that'd work if the market wants it. The reason we have 10 teams in Melb is because the market dictates it not because it's ideal and hazard a guess the game would lose members and supporters if we had a break away league.

AFLX and the general "softening" of the game: To be fair there are societal pressures that have some blame for "softening of the game". I've been watching league footy for more than 40 years and played into my 20's and yeah it's less combative but hey I'm still watching and more are watching than ever before. As far as AFLX goes it's not directed at us it's directed at young kids and teens (and their worried mums) HQ already has a huge fan base and want to garner the next generation.

How do the reckon the mums of today would consider their young kids playing footy like it was played in the 70's and 80's? Not a hope in hell, they'd send em to a soccer club............. hence "bruise free" AFLX. Sell that to the mums and the kids might be allowed to play footy.

Lastly Footy is not and never has been simple, probably now more complicated than it has been but since day dot it has never been "simple"

Thanks Carrinbush2010 thats a great post mate, I disagree on a couple of things but you are totally correct about how the kids are being introduced to football by a softer game, I would call that a horrible development , the game always was hard and contact, also the game was simple , compared to what it has become, by simple I mean a push is a push , a mark is a mark, a handball is a handball, the game speed is enormous and too fast perhaps it loses skills but it also injures players, expansion two more clubs is foolish. We're diluted. Perhaps why the game is full of runners , at flat chat, and don't touch too hard .
For the Mums of the world , yes kids and footy, mum, always terrified little junior will get hurt, that's been in the world of Mums forever, they need to see that. But I've seen it, we all know the AFL/VFL were always terrified the mums would get the upper hand.
BUT....It is not sending your 18 year old off to the trenches?

And kids all over Australia start easy with special junior clubs rules, but the real stuff of senior football is just that. Senior and heavy contact.

The AFL has one major problem it will face (not might) it will face gambling and huge money, for me the grey rules are like offering a lion a springbok fawn tied up on a stake and pepper and salted. Its wide open to scum getting under the table, and one day some one will get bought, its just bleeding humans they do this stuff. Got to ask the question?

But yes social styles and champagne football followers have created this new and what I consider less challenging footy than in the past sometimes.

I have said about my adult sons before.
Brought up by me and well brainwashed and set up into footy and following it with a vengeance. But two of them barely go now and all are members.

After 1996 I wanted full voting rights for my kids for Hawthorn, so we have them... never won't.
They are people who have seen footy, one of them from the late seventies early eighties, the others brought up through the 90's .

I see them and compare them to kids between 7 and 16 these days, who will not or don't now know the marvels of Aussie football at its best 80's and 90's and very early 2000's. and yes with the interstate clubs , but now two too many.
The football was so good , my kids as they grew went back and followed videos of the old days then they followed their own growing up era, days where it got better but was tough and heavy duty.
The last ten years! Even with the invention of Alastair Clarkson's genius to blend tough hard men with massive skill level and strictly developed and followed game plan no matter what, that no one sees outside of Hawthorn whether they are going well or bad. Even that era and 4 flags, has seen their interest wane , 2 are late 20's boys one is in his 40's and in that age bracket they all have learnt to walk out opf a room because the game has been taken over by umpires who cannot help but make mistakes with grey ruling set upon them, and where they are supposed to patronise players on the field and protect them so they can't get overly hurt, hence the abundance of idiotic free kicks , the abundance of whistle blowing you hear every few second the abundance of goals from unbelievable free kicks (of course some frees are there) but more frees or half marked footballs create scores, and I say scores because the points out weight the goals in deliberate standing shots on goal, so even the goal kicking is worse.
There is no excuse like Mums and money that makes it ok to ruin sometrhing under the disguise of we are improving things , when they are not improving at all.
But yes money money money is the god of the AFL its why we have expansion and dilution and rules to suit so we don't make waves too much and lose fans.
Well I reckon they will lose people I've seen it, and how many older footballers from the past say they never go, how is that not, making our game different, of course it is, all they have to do for me is call a straight out infringement instead of guessing at grey rules. That's all .
They , if they have to, can take out the hard men, protect bodies save Mums anguish, but pace will still injure teams out of wins or finals , look at Lyons Dockers , walking wounded so they'll probably be playing catch up again, and again.

Sorry once more I've rambled on, but thanks for the post, I am quite serious about how I see this"thing" of ours, footy, disappearing, maybe I will not have to see it totally gone, before I do! Good luck for the season. Your namesake pub, serves a good feed too!

 

[Carringbush2010]

Thanks Carrinbush2010 thats a great post mate, I disagree on a couple of things but you are totally correct about how the kids are being introduced to football by a softer game, I would call that a horrible development , the game always was hard and contact, also the game was simple , compared to what it has become, by simple I mean a push is a push , a mark is a mark, a handball is a handball, the game speed is enormous and too fast perhaps it loses skills but it also injures players, expansion two more clubs is foolish. We're diluted. Perhaps why the game is full of runners , at flat chat, and don't touch too hard .
For the Mums of the world , yes kids and footy, mum, always terrified little junior will get hurt, that's been in the world of Mums forever, they need to see that. But I've seen it, we all know the AFL/VFL were always terrified the mums would get the upper hand.
BUT....It is not sending your 18 year old off to the trenches?

And kids all over Australia start easy with special junior clubs rules, but the real stuff of senior football is just that. Senior and heavy contact.

The AFL has one major problem it will face (not might) it will face gambling and huge money, for me the grey rules are like offering a lion a springbok fawn tied up on a stake and pepper and salted. Its wide open to scum getting under the table, and one day some one will get bought, its just bleeding humans they do this stuff. Got to ask the question?

But yes social styles and champagne football followers have created this new and what I consider less challenging footy than in the past sometimes.

I have said about my adult sons before.
Brought up by me and well brainwashed and set up into footy and following it with a vengeance. But two of them barely go now and all are members.

After 1996 I wanted full voting rights for my kids for Hawthorn, so we have them... never won't.
They are people who have seen footy, one of them from the late seventies early eighties, the others brought up through the 90's .

I see them and compare them to kids between 7 and 16 these days, who will not or don't now know the marvels of Aussie football at its best 80's and 90's and very early 2000's. and yes with the interstate clubs , but now two too many.
The football was so good , my kids as they grew went back and followed videos of the old days then they followed their own growing up era, days where it got better but was tough and heavy duty.
The last ten years! Even with the invention of Alastair Clarkson's genius to blend tough hard men with massive skill level and strictly developed and followed game plan no matter what, that no one sees outside of Hawthorn whether they are going well or bad. Even that era and 4 flags, has seen their interest wane , 2 are late 20's boys one is in his 40's and in that age bracket they all have learnt to walk out opf a room because the game has been taken over by umpires who cannot help but make mistakes with grey ruling set upon them, and where they are supposed to patronise players on the field and protect them so they can't get overly hurt, hence the abundance of idiotic free kicks , the abundance of whistle blowing you hear every few second the abundance of goals from unbelievable free kicks (of course some frees are there) but more frees or half marked footballs create scores, and I say scores because the points out weight the goals in deliberate standing shots on goal, so even the goal kicking is worse.
There is no excuse like Mums and money that makes it ok to ruin sometrhing under the disguise of we are improving things , when they are not improving at all.
But yes money money money is the god of the AFL its why we have expansion and dilution and rules to suit so we don't make waves too much and lose fans.
Well I reckon they will lose people I've seen it, and how many older footballers from the past say they never go, how is that not, making our game different, of course it is, all they have to do for me is call a straight out infringement instead of guessing at grey rules. That's all .
They , if they have to, can take out the hard men, protect bodies save Mums anguish, but pace will still injure teams out of wins or finals , look at Lyons Dockers , walking wounded so they'll probably be playing catch up again, and again.

Sorry once more I've rambled on, but thanks for the post, I am quite serious about how I see this"thing" of ours, footy, disappearing, maybe I will not have to see it totally gone, before I do! Good luck for the season. Your namesake pub, serves a good feed too!

Ok JJ, you don't need to tell me or HQ for that matter...................they're just pandering to the popular societal shift which is largely responsible for the footy and the cotton woolling of juniors these day.

If you were to "complain" it would fall on deaf ears........... I'm more than certain that HQ are just as concerned as anyone that footy isn't allowed to be footy because of the pressure of today's snowflake societal norms. BUT they're not going to admit that publicly because the popular civil libertarian minority would be up in arms and that would be bad PR for HQ.

As far as the "greying" of the rules, like I said earlier I think that's a by product of stupid rules being brought in originally to pander to the noisy minority just like football is not allowed to take it's natural combative course.............................. Until society starts abiding by the sensible instead of the noisy minorities there's not much if nothing you or I can do here.

As far as moving the GF time-slot I think (for once!) the popular vote got up and it is at least one bit of footy tradition will stay!

 

[Angus Young]

Matter of time ladies...

Money talks...bullshit walks.

 

[Mr Magic]

For the first time I think ever I strongly agree with Paul Roos last night on the couch when he said "the footy at the grand final is the entertainment"!!!!

I could not agree any more.


One cannot compare an entertaining sport to a code like Gridiron or Soccer or Baseball, or Rugby League!!!

People need to get serious. Aussie Rules is played for peoples enjoyment and entertainment first and foremost which was how it was founded!! It is not mean't to be a distraction for the elite to keep the masses in check like the Roman gladiators!!!

Clearly France has issues containing the yellow vesters in check with a diet of soccer as opposed to Australian Rules.

The clear opposition to the marketing intervention by advertisers is simply can respond our game is better and we do not need the maple syrup to juice up people to keep them attentive!!!!

The trouble for the twilight crowd is Aussie Rules is simply a better game and people who sit and watch it want to do so and enjoy it so they can do other things later!!!

 

[JoondalupJ]

Ok JJ, you don't need to tell me or HQ for that matter...................they're just pandering to the popular societal shift which is largely responsible for the footy and the cotton woolling of juniors these day.

If you were to "complain" it would fall on deaf ears........... I'm more than certain that HQ are just as concerned as anyone that footy isn't allowed to be footy because of the pressure of today's snowflake societal norms. BUT they're not going to admit that publicly because the popular civil libertarian minority would be up in arms and that would be bad PR for HQ.

As far as the "greying" of the rules, like I said earlier I think that's a by product of stupid rules being brought in originally to pander to the noisy minority just like football is not allowed to take it's natural combative course.............................. Until society starts abiding by the sensible instead of the noisy minorities there's not much if nothing you or I can do here.

As far as moving the GF time-slot I think (for once!) the popular vote got up and it is at least one bit of footy tradition will stay!

Carringbush2010
Once again a great post mate and I understand. I did hear Gil on TV a day or so ago saying his people do follow lots of social media , and look into whats said, online, so I would think you are correct, they know it , but the minority cotton woolers of the world have the say it seems.
Lets hope the opening up now improves the watching. Because its important , you and I and all of us here are passionate we love this game, and without us ,. there is no game , and we are great in numbers. if we do stop spending and going , well lets hope we never do. Have a good one mate.

 

[JoondalupJ]

For the first time I think ever I strongly agree with Paul Roos last night on the couch when he said "the footy at the grand final is the entertainment"!!!!

I could not agree any more.


One cannot compare an entertaining sport to a code like Gridiron or Soccer or Baseball, or Rugby League!!!

People need to get serious. Aussie Rules is played for peoples enjoyment and entertainment first and foremost which was how it was founded!! It is not mean't to be a distraction for the elite to keep the masses in check like the Roman gladiators!!!

Clearly France has issues containing the yellow vesters in check with a diet of soccer as opposed to Australian Rules.

The clear opposition to the marketing intervention by advertisers is simply can respond our game is better and we do not need the maple syrup to juice up people to keep them attentive!!!!

The trouble for the twilight crowd is Aussie Rules is simply a better game and people who sit and watch it want to do so and enjoy it so they can do other things later!!!

My word, that is a good comment , I heard the Roos man myself say that , and a truer word never spoken , the football is the entertainment.

Our sport at its best is the greatest foot on field sport on the planet, and it is the hardest to adapt to, its why fellows like Mason Cox amaze me and some of these Irish boys.
Why is it that it makes me feel now more than ever that we're losing something , emptying out the greatness to mediocrity, seriously it is if its let go on the down ward path to big change it will become a destroyer of something that there is nothing else like, on the face of this earth, in sports , nothing else like our real Australian Rules.

 

[JoondalupJ]

We didn't 'need' immunisations or fluoride in tap water, but once the options came along we acknowledged they were pretty great and convenient to do.

Closer the game starts to night the more people will watch. Indisputable.

Very disputable! ! !

 

[hoylie]

OK a couple of points, I think you'll find that most will agree with you in how the decisions are "guessing the grey areas" and is a result of bringing rules to counteract other stupid rules brought in previously. It's no secret and the majority of fans are pissed - there's no light bulb moment for anyone.

Even so, we can only speculate on what would happen if decisions were different. What is likely is NOT fait accompli.

As far as your Kerry Packer theory I'd only think that'd work if the market wants it. The reason we have 10 teams in Melb is because the market dictates it not because it's ideal and hazard a guess the game would lose members and supporters if we had a break away league.

AFLX and the general "softening" of the game: To be fair there are societal pressures that have some blame for "softening of the game". I've been watching league footy for more than 40 years and played into my 20's and yeah it's less combative but hey I'm still watching and more are watching than ever before. As far as AFLX goes it's not directed at us it's directed at young kids and teens (and their worried mums) HQ already has a huge fan base and want to garner the next generation.

How do the reckon the mums of today would consider their young kids playing footy like it was played in the 70's and 80's? Not a hope in hell, they'd send em to a soccer club............. hence "bruise free" AFLX. Sell that to the mums and the kids might be allowed to play footy.

Lastly Footy is not and never has been simple, probably now more complicated than it has been but since day dot it has never been "simple"

Then tell me why is it that hockey in North America and Canada in particular incredibly popular right down to pee wee ranks? It’s incredibly barbaric

 

[Luv_our_club]

Hardwick mentioned the "slippery conditions" on 3 separate occasions in his post match press conference Thursday night .... that is what you get with night football.

Just sayin

 

[Carringbush2010]

Then tell me why is it that hockey in North America and Canada in particular incredibly popular right down to pee wee ranks? It’s incredibly barbaric

For starters I didn't know it was popular, secondly if it's popular because it's brutal then that stands to reason. Humans are combative and competitive by nature and we like to view it.

That might sound like I'm disagreeing with myself but I'm not.

What we're seeing if I may use footy as an example is the Mums around the country may like to watch it but they certainly wouldn't want junior or juniorette playing it - at least not the way it is intended to be played.

When I was a kid there was no Auskick, we had competitions where there were scores and percentages and best on ground and discipline from your coach just like the seniors.

Now that's all different only to appease a noisy minority because the civil libertarians who make the noise don't want pain for junior or juniorette be it physical or emotional. You and know and silent majority know that is not possible but right now it's popular to appease the noisy impractical.

Back to the thread subject, I'm actually surprised that HQ kept in tune with the fans and not the ch7 juggernaut.

 

[iBeng]

 

[Mr B]

Never stated differently, the GF is the GF and people are going to watch it. Just because one would be more popular because of higher profile teams doesn't mean it will have higher crowd numbers (which is uber minimal because the ground is always full anyway) or higher TV ratings.

It's the GF and the world will watch with a full MCG and full lounge suites, regardless of teams or time of day.

Soooo, if there are the same number of people at the game, and the same number of people watching it on TV, explain to me what makes one set of opponents more popular than another....

 

[Carringbush2010]

Soooo, if there are the same number of people at the game, and the same number of people watching it on TV, explain to me what makes one set of opponents more popular than another....

OK then I'll pose it you, would you rather watch a wc v coll GF or a North v Saints?................ we know everyone is going to watch / attend regardless because it's the GF.

But I challenge you or anyone to dispute the north v saints GF would be more popular.

 

[Xtreme]

I am legit shook that the AFLW grand final rated so poorly during the day

If it was held at night it may have rated more! Give the people what they "want" and make it a night grand final in 2020!

 

[Mr B]

OK then I'll pose it you, would you rather watch a wc v coll GF or a North v Saints?................ we know everyone is going to watch / attend regardless because it's the GF.

But I challenge you or anyone to dispute the north v saints GF would be more popular.

As a West Coast supporter I'm going to choose the first. But honestly, if my team is not involved I'll just as happily watch whichever two teams are involved. I don't have a second team, all others are equal.

 

[Carringbush2010]

As a West Coast supporter I'm going to choose the first. But honestly, if my team is not involved I'll just as happily watch whichever two teams are involved. I don't have a second team, all others are equal.

That doesn't discount the fact that north v saints would not be as popular.

 

[Mr B]

That doesn't discount the fact that north v saints would not be as popular.

Please, define "popular". I don't think it means what you think it means.

If they same number of people attend, and the same number of people watch on TV, then the popularity is the same. One becomes more popular when one is more watched.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok we're dissecting a can of worms now it seems.

I'll put it this way, wc v coll gf would have higher profile teams and a bigger fan base then a north v saints gf.