Can't miss what you never had....but I know what your saying, however a gun forward is worth more than a gun defender in my opinion.
Autopsy Jesse Hogan - Worth 220 Points
- Thread starter freo_leo29
- Start date
- Tagged users None
ask carlton fans if they agree with that one, they had "Fev" a gun forward for years, but never seem to do them any good...except maybe the pre-season comps
What gun defenders did they have?
I guess think of it this way Westhoff kicked 5 goals, with May there lets say he kicks 2 goals instead. Thats a difference of three. Do you think Hogan would have kicked 3? its possible but I'd say May would have had an easier job restricting Westhoff then Hogan would have in kicking three goals. Its easier to restrict then it is to create.
I will say gun key forwards are rarer then gun key defenders which is why they are more important to acquire but once the game starts I would say they are about even in terms of what they deliver on the field.
I always found it amusing how the lines "And Wittengstein was a beery swine and was just as sloshed as Schlagel" got squished into the lyrics - if you say it very quickly with the repeating consonances it sounds like the orator is drunk. I reckon Wittgenstein himself would have been very proud to have had his name used in this way; as he might have said it is this that is really the ONLY reasonable use for the intellectualism taught at universities these days....
Why mention the Eagles? Credibility lost from my point of view mentioning them at all.
They just won the premiership last year. They won more games last year than our last three years combined.
We agree on one thing, we don't have any kind of respect from the national media.
They aren't out to get us. We're just an easy target. Our history of being mainly mediocre at best (9 winning seasons in our 24 year history) just might have something to do with it.
Care factor low about your credibility rating.
Snuff was saying I dont remember him turning up to a Melbourne training session cooked either
My point is that the media not reporting shyte that happened while he was at Melbourne such as the santa dance (which is nothing to do with us), and the media not reporting the shyte Ryan got himself into in the same way they report stuff about Fremantle IS the reason those incidents are not remembered. But if you think the media are even-handed in that regard, good luck to you.
Did you miss Bennell's latest indiscretion? Luckily for all of us the media was there when he caused an incident.
I just said that we don't have any respect from the media. We don't get an even run.
I just think the club needs to earn more respect before that has any chance of changing.
That's where the victim mentality kicks in. A victim mentality involves believing that you're the victim in the face of contrary evidence. A mentality that it's all about external factors.
Our team can do something about this. I bloody well hope our club doesn't believe its all external.
You asked me "Why mention the Eagles?" and challenged my credibility about it. Pretty obvious really.
Bizarrely, I just went back to look at the history of the discussion and you "Liked" my comment responding where I mention Cousins and WC..... then you have a crack at my credibility because of it....
Last edited:
Fair enough about the credibility statement. My bad.
Mentioning the eagles in any way shape or form in this kind of stuff is frustrating though. It hurts to say but they've earnt respect over an extended period of time and have 4 premierships.
Even the media that might hate them, still respect them. It is simply not the same for us.
Yep, and I'm not having a crack at the Eagles or Melbourne. I think I posted that I have no issues with how Ryan was treated in the media.
Journalism is having a crisis of identity at the moment. Their credibility is in tatters in many forums. How Fremantle is treated is a minor example of this.
Like I said. Any conversation with the Eagles and this stuff just frustrates the hell out of me!! I hate the ride they get but really there's only one way for us to take control of the situation.
And thats get our act together.
I kept about two or three AFL 360's and On the Couches from 2013. If you watch them you'd see that we were getting positive press then.
- Jul 20, 2014
- 8,194
- 18,414
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
So back to Jesse. Anyone read the Patrick Smith article in the Australian today?
It's behind a paywall so I will cut and paste it for those unable to access.
He's an interesting cat, Smith. He's written some of the best and wort sports journalism ever. Tiy can judge where this fits in the spectrum.
Fremantle coach Ross Lyon was giving the media a stern lecture. Putting journalists in their place if you like. Making them feel guilty for asking a question. Very few coaches can manipulate a news conference as well as Lyon. He could turn a giraffe on its head.
At a midweek news conference Lyon was, unsurprisingly, asked questions about Jesse Hogan, the former Melbourne forward, recruited by Fremantle to give height and substance to a chronically underachieving Dockers offensive combination.
Hogan has been ruled out of the Dockers team indefinitely after the club said he suffered “clinical anxiety”. This was announced by the football manager, Peter Bell, after Hogan could not join last Sunday’s training because he was suffering the effects of a long drinking session. It was said Hogan was suffering a mental health issue, which appears the AFL’s new cover-all for poor player behaviour.
A player’s mental health is nobody’s business other than those who must ensure he will return to full health. And in normal circumstances the explanation for Hogan’s absence should never be doubted.
But the football environment has been contaminated. It has been soiled by season after season of club officials and players deliberately lying. The public is told a player will debut when he is five weeks away. One former coach’s standard reply to any injury question was “he’s two to three weeks away” even though the family buried the player two days before.
Club presidents made famous the stock reply to the future of underperforming coaches: “He has the full support and confidence of the committee” just as board members were finetuning details of his eulogy.
Players aren’t bad either. As a teammate clings to life in the hyperbaric chamber a player might be asked about his chances of making the side for the next round and he replies: “Oh, yeah. He was as good as anyone on the track this week.” A journalist interjects that that must be unlikely given he was in a hyperbaric chamber. “No problems. It’s got special wheels with tyres left over from the Grand Prix. It goes like the clackers. And an unbelievable tank.”
The AFL also adds to this environment where Doubting Thomas plays fullback. For more than a decade its illicit drug policy allowed players who twice tested positive to play. Their names only became public if they failed a further test. It meant, according to former league chief executive Andrew Demetriou, that any player suspended but not publicly exposed, was placed on the injury list with some invented issue. When revealed by this newspaper, the deceit only further tore away at community confidence in the league’s integrity.
Especially when former St Kilda captain Nick Riewoldt clearly saw the folly of the policy. “Here’s where the system is a bit ridiculous,” he said this week. “If a player goes out after a game, he’s got a corkie and he goes out and has six beers, on Monday he’ll be in front of the leadership group … and he might even miss a game of footy. But if you want to go out on the weekend and take drugs, no worries, go your hardest, because the worst you’re going to cop is a strike that no one knows about.”
And please don’t fall for the AFL and its players’ association line that it is a voluntary code. That the players agreed to be subject to the policy because they so treasured the sanctity of the game. They agreed to the illicit drug policy as the AFL tried desperately to squirm out of its moral obligation to become WADA-compliant as the federal government demanded.
Under the WADA code, as written in 2005, a player who tested positive to even marijuana, faced a lengthy ban. And the AFL had in-house results that showed marijuana use by players was commonplace. Under WADA’s rules the AFL might lose a team a week. So the suggestion that the AFL agreed voluntarily to submit to an illicit drug policy is disingenuous; a glorification of a cynical decision. The players’ association was more than happy to co-operate with the AFL’s attempt to set up alternative codes to WADA.
So it is always a suspicious media that greets any sort of news in the AFL world where lying is the second language of football.
Thus Lyon was interrogated over his much touted but absent recruit in Hogan. Not wanting to engage in anything more than the basic information, he worked hard to make the media feel insensitive and callous. It did not work. The media would continue to probe.
Lyon responded once more. “We need to respect this is a mental health issue, this is a wellbeing issue and you probably need to back off a little bit,” Lyon said.
“I can only be guided by our club doctors in this space. If you’re more inclined to overrule our doctors and think you’re more skilled in that area, I’m happy to hear that but I’m telling you I’m not skilled in dealing with that.”
Lyon would not comment on Hogan’s behaviour nor if he would have played against the Kangaroos tomorrow had he not been intoxicated last Sunday.
“I’m not denying anything but I’m not prepared to go into what the outcome of him not being well looks like in detail because it’s not appropriate,” Lyon said. “This has been an ongoing issue with Jesse in regards to working and feeling well and handling his wellbeing issue. We’re dealing with what we’re dealing with and the facts are the facts.”
The Fremantle position wobbled a little later that day when the term “clinical anxiety” was questioned by several doctors. The West Australian reported the medical profession said “clinical anxiety” was an invented term.
The West Australian also reported Fremantle had deleted the reference to “clinical” from its website. Fox Footy also said the paper reported medical experts had warned that club “spin” managers were hardly qualified to decide “on the terminology for psychological disorders”.
As well, the AFL keeps too much secreted away and opaque decisions are further protected by loyal, possibly scared stiff, AFL staff and a building full of bladders the size of Uluru.
Chief executive Gillon McLachlan, desperate to clean up the mucking style of football now cherished by coaches, sought the help of Steve Hocking, a former Geelong player, seemingly with a holy man’s faith in his own beliefs about the game and interpretations. He devised radical rule changes to open up the game.
The AFL’s football boss tried pre-season to keep practice matches played under the new rules secret but they were uncovered. The football community felt betrayed. The rules of a game, which was born in the 1850s, are the property of the supporters.
Lyon said at his news conference that he had spoken earlier to Riewoldt, his captain when Lyon coached St Kilda. Riewoldt said he was stunned at the cynicism that greeted the Fremantle announcement about Hogan’s unavailability. He shouldn’t have been.
No doubt Hogan has a medical issue and Lyon was seeking to protect his player. It is just that sometimes the giraffe is not for turning.
It's behind a paywall so I will cut and paste it for those unable to access.
He's an interesting cat, Smith. He's written some of the best and wort sports journalism ever. Tiy can judge where this fits in the spectrum.
Fremantle coach Ross Lyon was giving the media a stern lecture. Putting journalists in their place if you like. Making them feel guilty for asking a question. Very few coaches can manipulate a news conference as well as Lyon. He could turn a giraffe on its head.
At a midweek news conference Lyon was, unsurprisingly, asked questions about Jesse Hogan, the former Melbourne forward, recruited by Fremantle to give height and substance to a chronically underachieving Dockers offensive combination.
Hogan has been ruled out of the Dockers team indefinitely after the club said he suffered “clinical anxiety”. This was announced by the football manager, Peter Bell, after Hogan could not join last Sunday’s training because he was suffering the effects of a long drinking session. It was said Hogan was suffering a mental health issue, which appears the AFL’s new cover-all for poor player behaviour.
A player’s mental health is nobody’s business other than those who must ensure he will return to full health. And in normal circumstances the explanation for Hogan’s absence should never be doubted.
But the football environment has been contaminated. It has been soiled by season after season of club officials and players deliberately lying. The public is told a player will debut when he is five weeks away. One former coach’s standard reply to any injury question was “he’s two to three weeks away” even though the family buried the player two days before.
Club presidents made famous the stock reply to the future of underperforming coaches: “He has the full support and confidence of the committee” just as board members were finetuning details of his eulogy.
Players aren’t bad either. As a teammate clings to life in the hyperbaric chamber a player might be asked about his chances of making the side for the next round and he replies: “Oh, yeah. He was as good as anyone on the track this week.” A journalist interjects that that must be unlikely given he was in a hyperbaric chamber. “No problems. It’s got special wheels with tyres left over from the Grand Prix. It goes like the clackers. And an unbelievable tank.”
The AFL also adds to this environment where Doubting Thomas plays fullback. For more than a decade its illicit drug policy allowed players who twice tested positive to play. Their names only became public if they failed a further test. It meant, according to former league chief executive Andrew Demetriou, that any player suspended but not publicly exposed, was placed on the injury list with some invented issue. When revealed by this newspaper, the deceit only further tore away at community confidence in the league’s integrity.
Especially when former St Kilda captain Nick Riewoldt clearly saw the folly of the policy. “Here’s where the system is a bit ridiculous,” he said this week. “If a player goes out after a game, he’s got a corkie and he goes out and has six beers, on Monday he’ll be in front of the leadership group … and he might even miss a game of footy. But if you want to go out on the weekend and take drugs, no worries, go your hardest, because the worst you’re going to cop is a strike that no one knows about.”
And please don’t fall for the AFL and its players’ association line that it is a voluntary code. That the players agreed to be subject to the policy because they so treasured the sanctity of the game. They agreed to the illicit drug policy as the AFL tried desperately to squirm out of its moral obligation to become WADA-compliant as the federal government demanded.
Under the WADA code, as written in 2005, a player who tested positive to even marijuana, faced a lengthy ban. And the AFL had in-house results that showed marijuana use by players was commonplace. Under WADA’s rules the AFL might lose a team a week. So the suggestion that the AFL agreed voluntarily to submit to an illicit drug policy is disingenuous; a glorification of a cynical decision. The players’ association was more than happy to co-operate with the AFL’s attempt to set up alternative codes to WADA.
So it is always a suspicious media that greets any sort of news in the AFL world where lying is the second language of football.
Thus Lyon was interrogated over his much touted but absent recruit in Hogan. Not wanting to engage in anything more than the basic information, he worked hard to make the media feel insensitive and callous. It did not work. The media would continue to probe.
Lyon responded once more. “We need to respect this is a mental health issue, this is a wellbeing issue and you probably need to back off a little bit,” Lyon said.
“I can only be guided by our club doctors in this space. If you’re more inclined to overrule our doctors and think you’re more skilled in that area, I’m happy to hear that but I’m telling you I’m not skilled in dealing with that.”
Lyon would not comment on Hogan’s behaviour nor if he would have played against the Kangaroos tomorrow had he not been intoxicated last Sunday.
“I’m not denying anything but I’m not prepared to go into what the outcome of him not being well looks like in detail because it’s not appropriate,” Lyon said. “This has been an ongoing issue with Jesse in regards to working and feeling well and handling his wellbeing issue. We’re dealing with what we’re dealing with and the facts are the facts.”
The Fremantle position wobbled a little later that day when the term “clinical anxiety” was questioned by several doctors. The West Australian reported the medical profession said “clinical anxiety” was an invented term.
The West Australian also reported Fremantle had deleted the reference to “clinical” from its website. Fox Footy also said the paper reported medical experts had warned that club “spin” managers were hardly qualified to decide “on the terminology for psychological disorders”.
As well, the AFL keeps too much secreted away and opaque decisions are further protected by loyal, possibly scared stiff, AFL staff and a building full of bladders the size of Uluru.
Chief executive Gillon McLachlan, desperate to clean up the mucking style of football now cherished by coaches, sought the help of Steve Hocking, a former Geelong player, seemingly with a holy man’s faith in his own beliefs about the game and interpretations. He devised radical rule changes to open up the game.
The AFL’s football boss tried pre-season to keep practice matches played under the new rules secret but they were uncovered. The football community felt betrayed. The rules of a game, which was born in the 1850s, are the property of the supporters.
Lyon said at his news conference that he had spoken earlier to Riewoldt, his captain when Lyon coached St Kilda. Riewoldt said he was stunned at the cynicism that greeted the Fremantle announcement about Hogan’s unavailability. He shouldn’t have been.
No doubt Hogan has a medical issue and Lyon was seeking to protect his player. It is just that sometimes the giraffe is not for turning.
I think we get a reasonable go over East. The only time we don't is when they run with something that a WA 'journo' said and pile on assuming it is credible intel. I agree, if we aren't winning we deserve criticism. And clubs that are winning deserve credit over us when we aren't.
I think a lot of Freo supporters are sensitive about the media though because of how the local WA media treats us. It's just so blatantly one eyed. You just have to look at the incidents over the last week. Hardie being called out by Ballas and his reaction is not one from a level headed professional - he's a offended Freo hater. Similarly with most of his mates at 6PR - Crumpet seems to have it as his personal mission to destroy Freo - if only everyone wasn't laughing at him? Basil comparing Jesse to Ben Cousins another example. Just completely unprofessional and just wouldn't happen if the shoe were on the other foot, irrespective of the on-field performance.
Even in the last half an hour after West Coast lost. Check out this article describing the players efforts... If you think it would be as positive describing Freo players if we put up that same effort you are crazy: https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-c...n-their-shock-loss-to-brisbane-ng-b881145095z - it was an absolutely woeful performance (as bad as our game against Brissie last year) and yet they still sugar coat it.
I disagree. Whately always slams us. Sam McClure does as well. It fits the narrative that the WA media is the cause of our woes. I fear our team believes this as well. We need to be so good that they can't sledge us.
That is in our control. Who gives a crap if they say bad stuff about us if we are just all across what we need to be.
Again with the Eagles. They won the flag in one of the best grand finals for a while with a kick close to the siren with their first choice star ruckman and an All australian midfielder out. Forget anything else and just from that they are going to get the benefit of the doubt.
freo84
Norm Smith Medallist
So does anyone think Hogan might play against the Gold Coast or maybe the Saints the week after?
Or coulr this become something ongoing where we don't see Hogan for the entire season?
Or coulr this become something ongoing where we don't see Hogan for the entire season?
Snuffaluphagus
Moderator
- Sep 10, 2015
- 21,170
- 71,106
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Moderator
- #1,117
Duffield has reported he may be back for Saints, dont know if this was opinion or inside knowledge
So people actually pay to read this? I love how the media will make out that they’re flying the flag for truth and honesty - and that makes it ok to fabricate s**t to suit their narrative. More than happy to drag clubs, coaches and players names through the mud because they know there is no recourse.
Freo have stated Jesse made bad decisions involving alcohol AND has anxiety. Media read that as Hogan has drug issues - lets get him and the coach and club and AFL for harbouring a drug user!!! F**k me. Even if drugs are part of the equation (probably are), if anybody is a candidate for a mental health disorder, it’s Jesse. But nah, it’s only about the drugs. Honestly don’t know how the media pricks sleep at night.
That's so bloody rich coming from an industry that answers to ******* no one with all their mistruths and agenda driven rot.
Does this Patrick fool not realise that it is the media that made the industry like this?
Let's say for instance Jesse, a young bloke still finding his way in this s**t-fight, had no anxiety issues at all (hypothetically) and made a stupid decision to get on the grog and present unfit for a super important session and then the club reported it as exactly that. The media would ******* roast Jesse like a murderer BECAUSE of their agenda.
Jesse would have made the wrong decision yes, but the media fallout has potential to ruin his career (and life - who knows). There is no circumstance where he deserves that. This is why the industry is like this, because there is no accountability or regulation for these terrible people. (I excuse the legit unbiased journalists in this)
Get off your high horse Patrick, you made your bed now sleep in it.
I take from that article Smith thinks based on his external view of the club and his cereal packet degree as a Journo that he is better positioned to diagnose the player and the condition than our club physicians who have assessed him first hand.
Cool story bro.
Cool story bro.
- Banned
- #1,121
I got drunk and stoned last night with a mate. Was fun
Has completely changed my opinion of you. Clearly you are some kind of evil criminal and should be banished from BigFooty and only referenced when we can loosely link you to some incident, no matter how small and insignificant. God it is so great to be up here on my high horse - I should apply to become Australia's Archbishop.
There's clearly problems at Melbourne. Can't be a coincidence Watts and Hogan both had off field issues that only surfaced after they left.
I'm not being fooled.
