Crows - The Rebuild

[ABAB]

And some of those player were absolutely woeful in what could be their one and only grand final appearance for their career. What happens in the unlikely event we make it again would you be willing to risk another failed GF performance from senior players like Douglas, Mackay, Jenkins..

Anyhow, I digress. My point was that when we were in our premiership window we failed to trade IN aggressively as a great club would do.

We are still in our premiership window and did aggressively trade IN Gibbs which also place us in a better position for the future with the picks and future picks we subsequent got for that trade.

 

[MRB37]

And some of those player were absolutely woeful in what could be their one and only grand final appearance for their career. What happens in the unlikely event we make it again would you be willing to risk another failed GF performance from senior players like Douglas, Mackay, Jenkins..

Anyhow, I digress. My point was that when we were in our premiership window we failed to trade IN aggressively as a great club would do.

We traded in for Troy Menzel, Paul Seedsman and Curtly Hampton in 2015 and then had gotten Gibbs to agree to come over the next, what was not aggressive about that?

 

[Red mist]

You mean like this?

OUT: McGovern (24), Lever (23), Cameron (24)
IN: Gibbs (30)

Lolz

 

[Barneythecrab]

By the same token, the same players essentially helped us reach the Grand Final 18 months ago, winning big moment games to get there. And what's to say we can't make top 4 again this year, or even the GF? Are we just going to bank on 1 game and make an assumption the players are not capable anymore?

AFLW Crows lost their first round this year, after winning the GF in 2017. Luckily they didn't panic and wanting a rebuild, because...they stuck to their guns and now are in another GF!

Those player consistently failed in high pressure games. I just do not believe they have the mentality to win a GF.

 

[Thetrader15]

Then looking at OOC players elsewhere i'd look at guys like

Archie Smith (though Stef Martin is getting old so i'm sure the Lions will be able to keep him)
Rhys Mathieson
Callum Ah Chee
Peter Wright
Harrison Himmelberg
Jacob Hopper
Billy Stretch
Ivan Soldo
Lukas Webb

I'd love us to make a play for AcHee. He's super clsssy. I recall a match on the GC I was at v the crows and he just dominated up forward even though the gane was basically over at quarter time

 

[mattymac]

By the same token, the same players essentially helped us reach the Grand Final 18 months ago, winning big moment games to get there. And what's to say we can't make top 4 again this year, or even the GF?

It's gone.

The magic is gone.

They are broken.

 

[Ramify]

Players leaving in FA is not the same as letting go of players. That's like saying in the same time period GWS "let go" of Shiel, Treloar, Wilson, Hoskin Elliot, Kennedy, Smith, Tyson, Scully, Frost, Adams, Plowman, Boyd, Lobb, McCarthy, Marchbank, Steele and Setterfield.

Player movement is a part of football now, the club has next to no control of it, and for all the bad wrap we get, losing only 3 players in 3 years mean's we are actually remarkable good at player retention, especially considering the haul we got in return!

Fair call re Player movememt, but what is and who did we lose through F.A(free agency)?
I reckon we could easily have kept both Gov and Lever if we as a club were geared slightly differently.
Cameron/Dangerfield are a different kettle of fish.

 

[Ramify]

Has anyone ever told you that you have a very scattergun approach of trying to get your point across?

Hmmn Not yet..I've been told I talk crap a fair few times in the past though.

Scattergun as in pulling random facts,forecasts and assertions out of my arse to back my position or scattergun as in the context of my individual posts are completely unrelated to one and other?
Or is everything I'm trying to say just comming across as ranting gibberish?

I'll try to link it all up a bit better from now.

 

[John Who]

It's gone.

The magic is gone.

They are broken.

Maybe. Or maybe the fumbliness just worsened?
eg. Have never seen Milera fumbled so much ever!

If we can get better at being composed and efficient, we can still give it a shake.

 

[marty36]

Maybe. Or maybe the fumbliness just worsened?
eg. Have never seen Milera fumbled so much ever!

If we can get better at being composed and efficient, we can still give it a shake.

the Biggest concern for the weekend was Hawthorn

It was played at AO we were as strong as we will be all year the Hawks had 4 or 5 best 22 players out and their best player at that, last year we made excuses for injuries hawks have got that themselves this year

 

[Tex200]

We traded in for Troy Menzel, Paul Seedsman and Curtly Hampton in 2015 and then had gotten Gibbs to agree to come over the next, what was not aggressive about that?

That’s 3 years ago now and largely off the back of Danger leaving - needed something to show.

If we taking the 2015 semi as a start point, since that debacle we have actively moved on just 3 players. Hendo, Cheney and Lyons.

Thommo and VB retired. Danger, Cameron, Lever and McGovern walked out.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, we’ve really done nothing at all beyond backing in the core of this group to have success. Now that’s fine if you do actually have it.

This group is in its 5th year with no flag. Because we’ve showed such faith, we are now caught with key players the wrong side of 25.

That’s not to say you act after one bad finals loss (2015). But after the flogging they got in 2016 by Sydney the alarm bells must have been ringing, particularly given we’d done another disappearing act just a few weeks before v WCE in R23 when a top 4 spot was on the line.

I think we’ve probably lost the chance to prune and replenish now with a number of the core seemingly on the downside.

When Pyke talks of backing the group to respond, it’s not a game by game mantra - it’s a season by season one, and one we are locked into.

 

[jackster83]

Fair call re Player movememt, but what is and who did we lose through F.A(free agency)?
I reckon we could easily have kept both Gov and Lever if we as a club were geared slightly differently.
Cameron/Dangerfield are a different kettle of fish.

Tex re-signing a year early has ended up costing us dearly. If he had waited until last year to renegotiate, he'd be on a much smaller wicket, given the deterioration of his performances.

Should have refused Gov's request for a trade too. Like what Carlton did with Gibbs the first time round.

 

[Tex200]

The real test for us will the forward line transition. JJ, Tex, Betts and Lynch is a group we are completely locked into regardless of performance.

If you think that’s an overstatement, they largely stank last year, and R1 was more of the same.

We have 4 talented players perculating in the 2’s. Himmelberg, Davis, Fogarty and Stengle all have great potential.

Transitioning to that group will take a giqnt leap of faith, something we’ve been loath to do for many years

 

[Golumless]

Fair call re Player movememt, but what is and who did we lose through F.A(free agency)?
I reckon we could easily have kept both Gov and Lever if we as a club were geared slightly differently.
Cameron/Dangerfield are a different kettle of fish.

You certainly don't keep Lever in our situation seeing his exuberant contract demands. Slutted it up in the easiest position on a football field and wanted a kings ransom for it. The case in point for how stupid it would have been to even consider it is Doedee.

Even Gov, despite being much more important then Lever had hit that point as well. We were already paying him ~ 650k last year.

 

[Golumless]

The real test for us will the forward line transition. JJ, Tex, Betts and Lynch is a group we are completely locked into regardless of performance.

If you think that’s an overstatement, they largely stank last year, and R1 was more of the same.

We have 4 talented players perculating in the 2’s. Himmelberg, Davis, Fogarty and Stengle all have great potential.

Transitioning to that group will take a giqnt leap of faith, something we’ve been loath to do for many years

Not only a giant leap of faith, but locking up north 1-2 million of our salary cap per year in the SANFL (which is the single worst list situation a club can be in).

Odds are we don't, because we have truly committed to this group for the next couple of years.

 

[MRB37]

That’s 3 years ago now and largely off the back of Danger leaving - needed something to show.

If we taking the 2015 semi as a start point, since that debacle we have actively moved on just 3 players. Hendo, Cheney and Lyons.

Thommo and VB retired. Danger, Cameron, Lever and McGovern walked out.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, we’ve really done nothing at all beyond backing in the core of this group to have success. Now that’s fine if you do actually have it.

This group is in its 5th year with no flag. Because we’ve showed such faith, we are now caught with key players the wrong side of 25.

That’s not to say you act after one bad finals loss (2015). But after the flogging they got in 2016 by Sydney the alarm bells must have been ringing, particularly given we’d done another disappearing act just a few weeks before v WCE in R23 when a top 4 spot was on the line.

I think we’ve probably lost the chance to prune and replenish now with a number of the core seemingly on the downside.

When Pyke talks of backing the group to respond, it’s not a game by game mantra - it’s a season by season one, and one we are locked into.

When you have that many players leaving you don't actively push out talent that wants to stay too. It's half showing faith and half having your hand forced, otherwise you're in a never ending state of rebuilding. It ain't rocket science.

 

[SaltPeter]

At some level I question whether the club has to some degree bowed to long term negative reporting and feedback from the media and supporters over the bleeding of talent that has been highlighted since Bock, Davis and later Gunston walked.

 

[Murray2503]

That’s 3 years ago now and largely off the back of Danger leaving - needed something to show.

If we taking the 2015 semi as a start point, since that debacle we have actively moved on just 3 players. Hendo, Cheney and Lyons.

Thommo and VB retired. Danger, Cameron, Lever and McGovern walked out.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, we’ve really done nothing at all beyond backing in the core of this group to have success. Now that’s fine if you do actually have it.

This group is in its 5th year with no flag. Because we’ve showed such faith, we are now caught with key players the wrong side of 25.

That’s not to say you act after one bad finals loss (2015). But after the flogging they got in 2016 by Sydney the alarm bells must have been ringing, particularly given we’d done another disappearing act just a few weeks before v WCE in R23 when a top 4 spot was on the line.

I think we’ve probably lost the chance to prune and replenish now with a number of the core seemingly on the downside.

When Pyke talks of backing the group to respond, it’s not a game by game mantra - it’s a season by season one, and one we are locked into.

Back em in Don will back himself out of as job real soon if he keeps this up. Either Don is under instruction to keep playing the same 22 regardless or he is more stubborn than Neale Craig but regardless it's only going to end the same way for him. What he is doing is not working. You either become creative and start shuffling players around in different positions combined with dropping underperformers or you continue to get the same result. Jungle drums are already beating interstate that he and worsfold are the coaches most under pressure to lose their job this year if current form continues.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

At some level I question whether the club has to some degree bowed to long term negative reporting and feedback from the media and supporters over the bleeding of talent that has been highlighted since Bock, Davis and later Gunston walked.

What do you mean?

We haven't in the slightest. Lever, McGovern, Cameron all left for better offers.

If we were bowing down to public pressure we'd have ponied up the dough

 

[marty36]

The real test for us will the forward line transition. JJ, Tex, Betts and Lynch is a group we are completely locked into regardless of performance.

If you think that’s an overstatement, they largely stank last year, and R1 was more of the same.

We have 4 talented players perculating in the 2’s. Himmelberg, Davis, Fogarty and Stengle all have great potential.

Transitioning to that group will take a giqnt leap of faith, something we’ve been loath to do for many years

I guess you wont die wondering

If those 4 players come in and fail miserably would be the clubs concern as we will finish bottom 4

I would agree bite the bullet as I would hate finish 8th or 9th for the sake of staying competitive

 

[marty36]

What do you mean?

We haven't in the slightest. Lever, McGovern, Cameron all left for better offers.

If we were bowing down to public pressure we'd have ponied up the dough

What if we had no cap room left

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What if we had no cap room left

Between a third and a half of your players are coming out of contract every season. There is always cap room for the players you really want to keep.

 

[SaltPeter]

What do you mean?

We haven't in the slightest. Lever, McGovern, Cameron all left for better offers.

If we were bowing down to public pressure we'd have ponied up the dough

I really just meant last year. How many other players were re-signed last year though .. 16 or 18, vs the loss of McGovern. And for whatever reason, McGovern seemed to be determined to go

 

[Golumless]

Between a third and a half of your players are coming out of contract every season. There is always cap room for the players you really want to keep.

Not only that, but you can back pay players as well.

A club truly has ****ed up if there isn't cap room.

 

[Rotayjay]

And stop worrying about the soft cap

If we win a flag, we will make it back in no time

Idiots.

Running the footy club like a company, trying to cut corners and charging us a fortune for membership.