Coach John Longmire - Part II

[Kirkswan]

Bollocks.

Absolute bollocks.

1. The coach's job is to prepare the team to play a 22 week marathon and then 3 or 4 finals.
2. The coach cant kick the ball for them. The game plan is what they provide. The execution is for the players
3. All the coach can do is prepare the team. He can't coach the other team or the umpires or the weather or the injuries or the myriad other things that are out of his control. All he can do is prepare the players and the game plan.
4. The game plan and the players worked up to the point of the grand final 3 times in 5 years. We got stitched up by a Hawthorn side that beat us on the outside (as they should have in 2012 as well). We won enough of the ball but the forward line of buddy, tippett, reid and goodes was unbalanced and the ball came out of the forward line all day too quickly. But who among you said Goodes shouldn't play or Reid or Tippett ? And in any case hawthorn beat us nearly every single time we played at the MCG for that period - and they were far from the only team.
5. The game plan and the players got us to the 2016 grand final -but we weren't the best team. If the dogs hadn't played a month of unbelievable football we would have got slaughtered by GWS on the MCG anyway.

There are a couple of people on here who realise that our one on one defence as been poor for a number of years. They sort of half realise that the defend at all costs play to the boundary line have a spare man back is what has been keeping us in games and is what we use so that we can keep a list together as we pay a couple of forwards and some young midfielders lots and lots of our salary cap. The style is a consequence of a weakened midfield and lots of low draft picks and former rookies. But everyone says lets just play a more open style and see how we go. And then when we do and we start leaking goals they say sack the coach because he cant coach.

More of you realise that our midfield has been weak for a number of years. There are a lot of calls to replace midfielders with younger midfielders. But this raises questions about the list. Mills can play HBF, Heeney can play HFF. If Joey K plays forward he's a liability on the ground and not much better in the air. If Parker plays forward he can take a great mark but his legspeed is bad. So what do you do with these players - put them out to pasture. Sheee-itt half of you came pouring into grundy's defence when he got dropped last year. How would you go if joey K or parker get dropped ?

You've got to put the square pegs in the square holes. You can't reinvent stuff all at once.

But in the end that won't stop some of the nonsense - after all there is 126 pages of the same nonsense.

Its a waste of time to look backwards with regret. The question is whether there is a new style and new use of players given the current list and its strengths and weaknesses. It amazes me that people didnt react to Saturday night and say - "well bugger me if horse didnt swing a whole of changes around - I've never seen Grundy ruck before but that was adventurous. How about the decision to play Heeney and Mills in the centre bounce - sure they lost it but thats what I've wanted more of."

Instead we've got the same horse cant coach and cant change and he stuffed up in 2014.

Thank you very much! A really excellent post.

 

[sataris]

Paying horse best part of a million bucks of year when he apparently has no real influence on things, why have a coach

Apparently there's some committee that picks the team each week, so he's not even responsible for blooding the youngsters.

Should be paying GA prices and sitting in the stands instead of a box.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

I got so filthy with the coaches during the game... It was like we could all see what the problem was... clear as day... but the coaches stubbornly ignored the blatdntly obvious & stuck with what wasn't working... WHY?!

To prove a point?
Trusting the on field leaders to suddenly fix it all?

To be fair, they have plans & strategies all designed around getting the best outcome possible... I was just upset Heeney stayed fwd & Mills back when I wanted them both in the middle. They kept Hewy on a close 1on1 & Dawson away from it too... JPK needs help. It's obvious. Parker is grest but one more big body to absorb some of the heat JPK carries every game would be nice.

 

[Bonz]

To be fair, they have plans & strategies all designed around getting the best outcome possible... I was just upset Heeney stayed fwd & Mills back when I wanted them both in the middle. They kept Hewy on a close 1on1 & Dawson away from it too... JPK needs help. It's obvious. Parker is grest but one more big body to absorb some of the heat JPK carries every game would be nice.

The worst bit was I don't think the tag/ one on one was working.

Would seriously pay a bit extra on my membership to just see if Hewitt can have a game without tagging someone, think he would really step up.

 

[bedford]

And he's a great shot AT goal

 

[Wolfgang West]

Bollocks.

Absolute bollocks.

1. The coach's job is to prepare the team to play a 22 week marathon and then 3 or 4 finals.
2. The coach cant kick the ball for them. The game plan is what they provide. The execution is for the players
3. All the coach can do is prepare the team. He can't coach the other team or the umpires or the weather or the injuries or the myriad other things that are out of his control. All he can do is prepare the players and the game plan.
4. The game plan and the players worked up to the point of the grand final 3 times in 5 years. We got stitched up by a Hawthorn side that beat us on the outside (as they should have in 2012 as well). We won enough of the ball but the forward line of buddy, tippett, reid and goodes was unbalanced and the ball came out of the forward line all day too quickly. But who among you said Goodes shouldn't play or Reid or Tippett ? And in any case hawthorn beat us nearly every single time we played at the MCG for that period - and they were far from the only team.
5. The game plan and the players got us to the 2016 grand final -but we weren't the best team. If the dogs hadn't played a month of unbelievable football we would have got slaughtered by GWS on the MCG anyway.

There are a couple of people on here who realise that our one on one defence as been poor for a number of years. They sort of half realise that the defend at all costs play to the boundary line have a spare man back is what has been keeping us in games and is what we use so that we can keep a list together as we pay a couple of forwards and some young midfielders lots and lots of our salary cap. The style is a consequence of a weakened midfield and lots of low draft picks and former rookies. But everyone says lets just play a more open style and see how we go. And then when we do and we start leaking goals they say sack the coach because he cant coach.

More of you realise that our midfield has been weak for a number of years. There are a lot of calls to replace midfielders with younger midfielders. But this raises questions about the list. Mills can play HBF, Heeney can play HFF. If Joey K plays forward he's a liability on the ground and not much better in the air. If Parker plays forward he can take a great mark but his legspeed is bad. So what do you do with these players - put them out to pasture. Sheee-itt half of you came pouring into grundy's defence when he got dropped last year. How would you go if joey K or parker get dropped ?

You've got to put the square pegs in the square holes. You can't reinvent stuff all at once.

But in the end that won't stop some of the nonsense - after all there is 126 pages of the same nonsense.

Its a waste of time to look backwards with regret. The question is whether there is a new style and new use of players given the current list and its strengths and weaknesses. It amazes me that people didnt react to Saturday night and say - "well bugger me if horse didnt swing a whole of changes around - I've never seen Grundy ruck before but that was adventurous. How about the decision to play Heeney and Mills in the centre bounce - sure they lost it but thats what I've wanted more of."

Instead we've got the same horse cant coach and cant change and he stuffed up in 2014.

Agree with your job description for a coach but the bolded is piffle mate. GWS are worse at the MCG than us and we would have beaten them in 2016 if we squared off GF Day at the MCG. As far as 2014 goes Longmire's performance in the coaching box was as equally as bad as the players not getting off the bus that day. How do you explain his decision to let Burgoyne run a mock unmanned off half back for the best part of of the first half setting up scoring opportunity after scoring opportunity. He has achieved great things at the club and deserves the highest praise and appreciation from us supporters but he has flaws and some of them are glaring. Does he deserve the sack ? No. Can he take this side any further ? Who knows but the window has closed and his fingers are jammed in it so maybe it is time for a change because he will have broken Sheedy's coaching tenure record at Essendon by the time we are realistically a chance of winning our next one. Btw I respect your opinion and your posts are largely quality football educated opinion but there is a cloud hanging over the whole set up at the moment.

 

[Tedeski]

And he's a great shot AT goal

FOR goal.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

FOR goal.

Hehehe. For or at? I don't care as long as we boot a heap of snags every quarter and win comfortably.

Counting the debacle v Giants we kicked six goals in six quarters up to half time v Footscray. Win, lose or draw I have no wish to again see a goal less quarter this year.

 

[bungee]

Thank you very much! A really excellent post.

Amen to that

 

[bungee]

Because he's had a game plan which got the team to the grand final 3 times in five years.

How much has Buckley got ?
How much has Brad Scott got ?
How much Ratten and Malthouse with all of their first round draft picks ?

Honestly life is too short.

And it's been a long while since the Clarko got his team to win a final. Imagine the melt down on this board if Horse did that 3 years running.

 

[bungee]

Did I?
Or is that just what you, & others, keep making out that I said.

We played bad, sack that the coach.
But it's only round 1.
He hasn't learn anything, same old same old.
But it's only round 1.
He's never going to learn.
But it's only round 1.
We'll never win a flag with a coach like him.
But it's only round 1.
The game has passed him by.
But it's only round 1.
He won't change.
But it's only round 1.
Why do you keep defending the coach? Did you miss all those posts about how bad he is?
Ummm he has a pretty good record.
But he will never change, look at Clarko, he changed, Liam Shields said so.
Who TF is Liam Shields?
Why do you keep saying the coach should never be sacked?
Errrrm I didn't.
Yes you did, you said "a million things go into both winning and losing".
Plus, we only kicked one goal in the first half.
We were s**t int the first half.
Exactly, sack Horse.
But sometimes we play s**t early in the season.
Stop making excuses, it's the coaches fault. We need a new coach.
OK, who?
Anyone would be better than Horse.
Really?
Yes, really.
Mark Neeld.
Don't be ridiculous when I said anyone, I meant Clarko or a graduant of the Clarko school.
Like that dude that hasn't improved Carlton in 4 years?
But he learned from Clarko (& he is a midget). How about Ratten.
Couldn't keep his job at Carlton, why would we hire him?
Ok, who else?
Anyone!!!
Mark Neeld.
Didn't I just explain by anyone I meant Clarko?

Gold

 

[bungee]

My view is the club expects this team to get to another GF by at least 2023 with good signs that this young team is building and our window is opening by 2020/2021. Those asking for change may not have noticed the significant renewal our list over the last few years. 2012-2016 was a golden period but the game has moved on and we needed to refresh and rebuild. We are building for another golden period. I see no signs to indicate this is anything other than a carefully executed long term plan with changes in recruitment reflecting changes to the way we want to play.

Since the 90s I've seen this club stick to their guns and back their staff across the board, from Chairman, CEO, coaches, recruiters and players. That loyalty and faith has paid off with the most successful 20-odd years in our history. The club will give Longmire every chance to coach this next golden period simply because they've been working on the same plan together and they believe in him. Not many coaches can demonstrate they can take a team to 3 GFs in 8 years of coaching. Only Horse could decide if he didn't want to carry through, for whatever reason.

I disagree with what Blacky posted earlier. It's not solely about Premierships. It's also about the team always being held in the highest esteem, always being considered a chance, consistently winning more than they lose and showing they can beat any team on any given day. I wouldn't support a team that played 8 shite years just to win a premiership on the 9th. I was so proud of this team in 2017 getting through to a semi-final from a 0-6 start. I knew we couldn't go to the premiership (much as I would have liked) but it didn't matter. These were the never-say-die Swans doing just that. That's why we are so many fans' second team. We can never be counted out and the odds are we will win.

 

[Swannnnn]

I remember at one point watching the Tigers vs Pies match, i was thinking ' Geez their skill levels are soo good, one handed marks, accurate kicks and handballs, tackling pressure, speed through the contest', but then I remember both of these teams were quite bad in the seasons prior to the ones where they suddenly became premiership contenders (anyone remember us thumping Richmond by 100+ in 2016). Don't forget around that time, both Hardwick and Buckley were under pressure to keep their jobs.

I reckon we're at this stage now, where the void created from the decline in form and/or retirements of the more senior guys hasn't yet been filled by the potential of the younger guys. They will be some growing pains, but I think Horse deserves the chance to at least have until the end of his current contract to see if he can make a successful transition of the list.

I think we're just making up the numbers even if we make it into the 8 this year but that's fine. Our window will be from 2020 onwards, as many pointed out.

 

[The King!]

If you still defend his style you have rocks in your head

 

[Blacky]

Pumped at home.

Going to be a long season.

Living on borrowed time

 

[Gun Island]

Can’t wait till we here from South Eastern England . What we have is a game with no plan at all , no A or B . Having said that , we got reemed .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jack2Jack]

It's concerning that the ball movement in transition is the same as last year, how any coach can sit there (especially with Franklin up forward) and say the best movement is short kicking possession game is beyond me. You can see that the short kicking is drilled into the players often kick short when they shouldn't or stop a fast play to go short. We when charging through the middle to forward 'attacking' kicks still go out to the boundary side rather than direct. Far to defensive.
The lack of structure is obvious the game-plan was build on pressure and effort, when that wanes the midfield structure and forward structure are exposed bare. Players often caught out in the wrong spot, or positioned poorly. So often the other side have the release at the stoppages, while our guys scrap over the same ball.
Plenty have sides have recovered from 0-2, but the signs were trending in one direction last year. A whole summer and no structural or transition changes as far as I can see. The list isn't what it was, but it's capable of playing better than the s**t we've seen for the last 18 months, you see that in those odd quarters here and there when we actually decide to go '*, we might actually try and kick some goals'.....but then as soon as we get back into a game playing attacking we we revert to safe chipping until we fall 4 goals down again.
Being very poorly coached, but it's not just Horse it's the whole coaching staff, a whole summer. No changes. Doesn't change the good stuff earlier in his career but it looks like the players aren't playing for him anymore.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Does it feel to anyone else that just the lack of energy on the players, lack of hunger for the football so many players just jogging rather than charging in.

It feels a lot like Roos final year at the club

 

[The King!]

Does it feel to anyone else that just the lack of energy on the players, lack of hunger for the football so many players just jogging rather than charging in.

It feels a lot like Roos final year at the club

This board loves working out which year or moment from history a current period resembles

 

[Wolfgang West]

Does it feel to anyone else that just the lack of energy on the players, lack of hunger for the football so many players just jogging rather than charging in.

It feels a lot like Roos final year at the club

Yeah it does to me.

 

[Opts]

I'm not a Longmire fan but what coach would have got a win against umpiring like this? The umpires have a clear bias against us. I have no idea why; just stating the facts.

 

[Kennedy Parker]

Does it feel to anyone else that just the lack of energy on the players, lack of hunger for the football so many players just jogging rather than charging in.

It feels a lot like Roos final year at the club

Roosy's final year at the club consisted of a bunch of energised new recruits. We were like leading the ladder in the first 5 rounds or something. And a bees dick from a prelim.

Situations completely different atm

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I'm not a Longmire fan but what coach would have got a win against umpiring like this? The umpires have a clear bias against us. I have no idea why; just stating the facts.

They might have sucked but why the sudden change at halftime...the second qarter worked...and funny that it was when we moved the thing forward!

 

[Rob45]

Was at the game. I am generally very cynical of anyone talking about umpiring bias but that was pretty ridiculous.

I don't claim to be any tactical genius, but there was a 10 minute patch in the 1st quarter where we were dominant in the contest. That is obv what Horse prides himself on so I have to give him credit for that. The issue was that as we moved the ball forward of centre, there seemed to be no plan. The player with the ball typically looked hesitant, and ended up bombing it to a 2v2 or worse.

It feels like the sentiment of most Swans fans is that we continue to play a 2004-2012 defensive pressure game plan with players who aren't suited to it, in a league that has moved on and figured out that style. The counter argument is always that we continue to make finals and in fact should have won another flag since 2012.

I always give the professionals the benefit of the doubt. When BT is shitting on complaining about De Goey going off after kicking a goal, I assume that he is wrong and the Pies coaching staff are right, because they are being paid a lot of money to do it full time, and he is just crapping on about what happened in his day.

So I am honestly loathe to criticise Longmire, given I have never even played AFL at any level. However being at the game, I just didn't understand wtf we were doing going forward. In some ways I hope we have a terrible season and some heat is put on us and Horse, because the way we play has been a true mystery to me the past few years, and I would like someone who knows what they are talking about to explain it to me.

That goal buddy kicked from the boundary was ridiculous. I was in the perfect spot and the moment he gathered it in everyone knew what was going to happen.

I though Blakey looked really good.

 

[scaryness]

Tom Harley, time to prove yourself as CEO.