Geelong - never going out of premiership contention?

[Black Stripe]

They remind me of Carlton under John Elliott in that they don't believe in the rebuild philosophy, always striving for success, have lots of quality players from elsewhere wanting to play for them and zero tolerance of mediocrity.

Unlike clubs like the Crows and Power that are just happy to make the finals.

 

[Seeds]

Any side would always be in premiership contention when starting the season with 36 premiership points before a ball is bounced. Credit to them for being close to untouchable at home

Yes the team who has less home games then every other team in the comp is somehow advantaged. It takes some extreme cognitive dissonance on your behalf to conclude that. Geelong is the most disadvantaged team in the comp due to never getting home ground finals and getting 3 less home games per year then everyone else. Its a disgrace. Its no doubt cost us a couple of flags in the past 3 decades.

 

[PhatBoy]

Richmond get a good fixture due to playing extra games at the MCG, I'm not denying that at all.

Part of the advantage of a home ground comes from being familiar with the ground. When your opponent plays there at least 5 times a year, that gap of familiarity is significantly reduced.

Joel Selwood has played almost as many games at the MCG at games at Kardinia Park and twice as many as games played at Docklands. I would say he's pretty familiar with the MCG...

Essendon play at the MCG 8 times this year, Geelong 5. Do you really think Essendon are getting a huge advantage from the game being played at the MCG?

Whenever their opposition is not a tenant, yes. (I don’t know how many times that happens, fwiw)

 

[randyzany]

Hawthorn fans hate to hear this but a large part of why Geelong has successfully been able to hang around the Top 8 for the past 6 or so years is because of how diluted the competition got due to the watering down of teams lists via the introduction of the new franchises who hogged the best youngsters for about 4 years.

Had the franchises never entered the league in this period, I'm sure Geelong would've found it much more difficult to stay around the Top 8 playing against much stronger deeper teams.

Hawthorn get their knickers in a knot because although Geelong benefited by over-achieving and playing consistently playing in finals, Hawthorn hit the jackpot in actually winning what matters; flags.

Our elite core of 10 or so players were just too old to take advantage of the situation back in 2012 (GWS and GC both in playing in the league). Whereas Hawthorn's best 10 players being 5 years younger on average than Geelong's, were just in the right age bracket and proceeded to make out like bandits.

 

[DangerHere]

The best part is playing our home games on the opposition’s home ground.

It’s great.

F*** off any Richmond supporter having a whinge about other teams homeground

Yep w***ers like that love to whinge don’t they ?

 

[Niggles]

Geelong supporters will never admit, they have the biggest advantage in the comp being sole tenant of the Victorian ground they also train at. Yet because they're so insecure, they point the finger and have the gall to bag other Vic clubs who actually lose their own home ground advantage quite often when playing their own respective tenants.

Or are they sill crying over the home state final they earned at the MCG, (just like any other year against a bigger Vic team) yet lost against eventual premier Richmond, in 2017. Surely not, That's pretty insecure, even for w***ers.

 

[Seeds]

Geelong supporters will never admit, they have the biggest advantage in the comp being sole tenant of the Victorian ground they also train at. Yet because they're so insecure, they point the finger and have the gall to bag other Vic clubs who actually lose their own home ground advantage quite often when playing their own respective tenants.

Or are they sill crying over the home state final they earned at the MCG, (just like any other year against a bigger Vic team) yet lost against eventual premier Richmond, in 2017. Surely not, That's pretty insecure, even for w***ers.

Rubbish argument that only focuses on home games and ignores away games. Melbourne tenants may not have an advantage when playing other melbourne teams in home games. But they also have zero disadvantage when playing melbourne teams in away games. The effect nets out. Geelongs effect does not net out cos we play 8 home games and 12 away games.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Geelong supporters will never admit, they have the biggest advantage in the comp being sole tenant of the Victorian ground they also train at. Yet because they're so insecure, they point the finger and have the gall to bag other Vic clubs who actually lose their own home ground advantage quite often when playing their own respective tenants.

Or are they sill crying over the home state final they earned at the MCG, (just like any other year against a bigger Vic team) yet lost against eventual premier Richmond, in 2017. Surely not, That's pretty insecure, even for w***ers.

Biggest advantage? We play less games at our home ground than any other club in the comp. Good teams are hard to beat anywhere. Geelong have been good to very good for a while. When we were below average (still think we should have made finals) in 2015 we lost quite a bit in Geelong.

Absolute nonsense whinge from another sook sick of us being good. Get over it.

 

[catstragic]

Id say the SS home stadium situation is actually pretty helpful. We get a fortress, but we don't have to travel far to play other Melbourne teams at their home grounds (unlike the interstate teams), and get good fan support in Melbourne as well(if not so good as at SS). In a balanced competition it doesn't take much to get a bit of a long term edge in W/L.

 

[projectv]

I still don't see them making the finals, but they have had a great start to the year for sure.

 

[HolyWars]

Massive respect for the club. They've done it well and would expect them to at least make it into the second week of finals.

 

[Randy Campbell]

They remind me of Carlton under John Elliott in that they don't believe in the rebuild philosophy, always striving for success, have lots of quality players from elsewhere wanting to play for them and zero tolerance of mediocrity.

Unlike clubs like the Crows and Power that are just happy to make the finals.

They believe in rebuilding but not the rebuild philosophy that has been sold to the struggling clubs fans by the AFL.
The equalisation measures of the AFL have completely changed the competition since Elliott's Carlton days.
I think the draft and salary cap has benefited Geelong and Hawthorn by taking away the advantage previously held by the cash richer clubs.

 

[Wojcinski]

The AFL has clearly styled their new Free Agency on a basic version of the NFLs. Which is great - IF players acted the same way as those in the US.
But they don’t. It’s almost unheard of for a player to turn down the highest cash offer for family or location or “premiership contention” in the USA.

It happens all the time, free agents go to big market teams (Boston Celtics for example) and small market teams always miss out.

How do you think 2 out of 30 NBA teams (Boston and LA Lakers) have won almost 50% of the NBA championships since the league's inception?

How about DeMarcus Cousins turning down $30m per year to sign with New Orleans to instead sign with reigning 2 time champion GSW for $5m?

 

[footyfan1978]

Took 30 seasons of following footy for me to see them win a flag.
Would not get hung up on a period they been a regular finalists and won a few premierships as if it means they never going to be out of contention.
This league history is full of many clubs have long stints of being up and about to win a few premierships and then other periods in wilderness for some time.

*, took me 12 seasons to even see my own club miss the top five. Now I seen two decades worth and not been a contender.....

These cycles going to happen to every club except maybe St.kilda and Fremantle.

 

[Seeds]

Hawthorn fans hate to hear this but a large part of why Geelong has successfully been able to hang around the Top 8 for the past 6 or so years is because of how diluted the competition got due to the watering down of teams lists via the introduction of the new franchises who hogged the best youngsters for about 4 years.

Had the franchises never entered the league in this period, I'm sure Geelong would've found it much more difficult to stay around the Top 8 playing against much stronger deeper teams.

Hawthorn get their knickers in a knot because although Geelong benefited by over-achieving and playing consistently playing in finals, Hawthorn hit the jackpot in actually winning what matters; flags.

Our elite core of 10 or so players were just too old to take advantage of the situation back in 2012 (GWS and GC both in playing in the league). Whereas Hawthorn's best 10 players being 5 years younger on average than Geelong's, were just in the right age bracket and proceeded to make out like bandits.

Think free agency is the main reason why geelong and hawthorn stayed up for longer. It usually takes 8 years to build the list Through the draft. Note that geelong lost there best player in the game to the expansion clubs. They hardly benefited.

 

[Seeds]

Id say the SS home stadium situation is actually pretty helpful. We get a fortress, but we don't have to travel far to play other Melbourne teams at their home grounds (unlike the interstate teams), and get good fan support in Melbourne as well(if not so good as at SS). In a balanced competition it doesn't take much to get a bit of a long term edge in W/L.

You are doing the maths wrong.

 

[Black Stripe]

They believe in rebuilding but not the rebuild philosophy that has been sold to the struggling clubs fans by the AFL.
The equalisation measures of the AFL have completely changed the competition since Elliott's Carlton days.
I think the draft and salary cap has benefited Geelong and Hawthorn by taking away the advantage previously held by the cash richer clubs.

Carlton were perennial premiership contenders in John Elliott's time and even before that going back to the late 60's.

Same as Geelong circa 2007 to present day and no end in sight for those praying for them to decline and spend time out of contention.

 

[catstragic]

You are doing the maths wrong.

That is a very helpful post.

 

[MOONEY 21]

Geelong supporters will never admit, they have the biggest advantage in the comp being sole tenant of the Victorian ground they also train at. Yet because they're so insecure, they point the finger and have the gall to bag other Vic clubs who actually lose their own home ground advantage quite often when playing their own respective tenants.

Its not Geelongs fault every other side abandoned their traditional home grounds.

Cry me a river.

 

[MOONEY 21]

I still don't see them making the finals, but they have had a great start to the year for sure.

This is laughable. Geelong, along with Brisbane are the form sides of the comp ATM.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Carlton were perennial premiership contenders in John Elliott's time and even before that going back to the late 60's.

Same as Geelong circa 2007 to present day and no end in sight for those praying for them to decline and spend time out of contention.

No matter what the rules are I have always enjoyed beating Carlton and Geelong better when they are at thier best.

 

[PhatBoy]

Geelong supporters will never admit, they have the biggest advantage in the comp being sole tenant of the Victorian ground they also train at. Yet because they're so insecure, they point the finger and have the gall to bag other Vic clubs who actually lose their own home ground advantage quite often when playing their own respective tenants.

Or are they sill crying over the home state final they earned at the MCG, (just like any other year against a bigger Vic team) yet lost against eventual premier Richmond, in 2017. Surely not, That's pretty insecure, even for w***ers.

We won’t admit it because it’s bullshit.

It’s like saying ‘Nirvana fans will never admit it, but Stay Another Day by East 17 was better than anything Kurt Cobain ever wrote.’

Yeah you’re right, they wouldn’t admit it. Because it isn’t true.

Playing opposition teams on their home ground when it is our home game, is not the situation an unfairly advantaged club finds itself in.

Get it through your head or f*** off

 

[Seeds]

That is a very helpful post.

It should be. do the maths. The answer always comes out the same regardless of what weighting system you use.

 

[Ricketz]

I'm not saying a good H&A season needs to translate to a premiership every time. If you're finishing high in the 8 for multiple years, however, then you should at least expect competitive performances in finals. Geelong is 3-9 in finals since 2011. They have had 4 top 4 finishes in that time, including 3 top 2 finishes, for a return of 0 GF appearances. Despite beating sides during the H&A, sometimes multiple times, they will frequently get completely run over by them in finals, and in many finals games under Scott they have simply been non-competitive.


The difference between the period where those players left and the period where Taylor, Selwood, Ablett, Hawkins, Dangerfield will leave is that in the former, we had fundamental key players who were young during the run of success in 2007-11 and were just coming into their prime when those older players left. These players - Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins - formed a core that could be built upon and allowed us to remain competitive despite so much quality leaving. We then built on that with Dangerfield, other mature-age recruits and a small set of young players. At present, who is the next Selwood and Hawkins? When Hawkins retires, what is the key position forward plan? In the next few years, we could be without Selwood, Dangerfield, Ablett and Kelly. What happens to the midfield then?




Star players banging the door down to come to Geelong is not a usual thing. The set of circumstances with Dangerfield, where he selected Geelong and only Geelong as a destination due to family ties, was unique and unlikely to be replicated.

Until a year or so later and Ablett does the same thing. Then Dalhouse... then Rohan.

Hmm, rare.

 

[Chinacats]

They manage the transition well. Don’t forget we lost Scarlett, Stevie J, Bartel, Chapman, Mooney, Ablett, Enright , Mackie etc and still remain competitive. Ablett will leave again along with Taylor, Hawkins, selwood but they’ll replace them.
Interestingly the next group was supposed to be Menzel, Murdoch, thurlow, Guthrie and a few others. 3 are out and Guthrie is a fringe player, so we just bring in ‘need’ players and promote youth. Cats will be thereabouts , but we want to be champions. Not sure they’ll be good enough in next few years.