Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Virgin Dog]

Dogs wanted him bad as well
Bloody saints

3 picks before Lipinski, was pretty close to getting him too :/ No disrespect towards Lipinski, but Ben Long is exactly the type of player who could easily slot into our forward line right now, while Lipinski tears it up in the VFL but it's hard to find space for him

 

[Dogs Rule]

Does it really matter? Maybe.

Someone suggested this week that Wingard chose the Hawks instead of the Dogs because the Hawks have a strong record of success with indigenous players and we don't. I don't know if that was just an opinion/guess or was based on something Wingard or his manager actually said but it does show that it's a complex area. If it's true and characteristic of other players' views it means we are on a poor footing in trying to attract established indigenous talent. If they are the players we are chasing then yes, it matters. It might not be the case now but if we end up being regarded as "off limits" or last choice by a section of the talent pool then yes, it matters.

It's a curious thing that while we've had our fair share of indigenous players over the years we've never had a truly iconic player like a Rioli, a Winmar, a Franklin, a Farmer, a Burgoyne, an Adam Goodes or a Long. We've had quite a few handy players or flashy players but none with long careers at the WO. I know we had players like Phil Krakouer and Winmar but that was at the end of their illustrious careers. Perhaps Magic McLean came closest but he's more associated with Brisbane.

While there are lots of possible reasons for this I prefer to keep it simple until someone can prove otherwise: it's just bad luck. We've given it lots of shots and continue to do so, but never been lucky enough to find a true champion indigenous player (or we've not been able to keep him long enough to call him "ours" in the case of McLean). We've also had Brett Goodes working for us in the area of player welfare, no doubt with one eye out for the needs of our indigenous kids.

I'm certainly not suggesting anything like quotas or "reaching" for an indigenous player. We need to choose players on merit.
It's tricky ground too, because of the constant sensitivity about race-typing on the one hand and political correctness on the other.

Anyway, it would be great to see us develop our own iconic indigenous player. As a club that has always been associated with the disadvantaged and the underdog, and a club that is a leader in supporting diversity it just seems like such a natural fit.

Small point - we have had a Winmar.

As for Wingard, like Katie Brennan, players will find any excuse to justify their decisions to leave a club and choose another. Most of the time it's about money.

 

[doggies ftw]

It sucks that a player can be developed by club's VFL team with the intention of picking them up and another club can just decide they want them. There's no way to fix this though as you'd see the bigger clubs just trying to get as much good young talent into their VFL system as possible so they can have dibs when they are on the radar.

Just make it the player has had to nominate for a draft previously. That means any player picked up under this method would have already been overlooked and no club wanted them and then its fair game that the standalone club who develop them into draftable players get first dibs. Even a f/s bidding type set up is fine, just make sure the main club has a choice if they want them.

 

[VitalDread]

Just make it the player has had to nominate for a draft previously. That means any player picked up under this method would have already been overlooked and no club wanted them and then its fair game that the standalone club who develop them into draftable players get first dibs. Even a f/s bidding type set up is fine, just make sure the main club has a choice if they want them.

i'm a strong believer in creating academies for the VFL Teams as a pathway for mature talent.

Same rules apply that teams, as you mentioned, can nominate a player and have a 20% bidding on it.

Esp with the AFL considering a national wide comp by 2020-2021

 

[dergert]

Has ben long shown anything at AFL level?

 

[BEaston]

Has ben long shown anything at AFL level?

Not really.

Lipinski has shown more at both levels and 1 year younger.

 

[mattwa]

Naughton signs for 4 years!!

 

[Doggies_13]

In the same article by Sam landsberger about Naughton getting a 4 year extension it says English is settled in Melbourne and will look to extend his contract later this year

 

[BallaratBulldog]

That would be ace, two of our most important youngsters. Hopefully that's true about English.

 

[Testekill]

Getting both English and Naughton long term is gonna go a lot towards giving me confidence of us being a finals threat.

 

[TedDougChris]

Naughton signs for 4 years!!

Well done Naughton and well done Power.....

 

[Dry Rot]

Does it really matter? Maybe.

Someone suggested this week that Wingard chose the Hawks instead of the Dogs because the Hawks have a strong record of success with indigenous players and we don't. I don't know if that was just an opinion/guess or was based on something Wingard or his manager actually said but it does show that it's a complex area. If it's true and characteristic of other players' views it means we are on a poor footing in trying to attract established indigenous talent. If they are the players we are chasing then yes, it matters. It might not be the case now but if we end up being regarded as "off limits" or last choice by a section of the talent pool then yes, it matters.

Yes it matters, and yes we are not viewed as a good destination for indigenous players.

Can't name my sources, but I understand that this is true. Dunno how it has come about or how we can fix it.

 

[_M_16_]

I know this is old and repeated. But so much for the "crisis at the Bulldogs" and "Tom Boyd's contract means they will not be able to sign anyone"

With the majority of the list tied down for at least a couple of years at least, those doomsday opposition supporters can kiss our butts.

 

[ScragCity]

Would love to know what kind of money Naughton signed for.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Would love to know what kind of money Naughton signed for.

Me too! Would have to think $500k plus. Maybe a new 5 year contract worth $2.5million.

 

[BRWB]

I

Does it really matter? Maybe.

Someone suggested this week that Wingard chose the Hawks instead of the Dogs because the Hawks have a strong record of success with indigenous players and we don't. I don't know if that was just an opinion/guess or was based on something Wingard or his manager actually said but it does show that it's a complex area. If it's true and characteristic of other players' views it means we are on a poor footing in trying to attract established indigenous talent. If they are the players we are chasing then yes, it matters. It might not be the case now but if we end up being regarded as "off limits" or last choice by a section of the talent pool then yes, it matters.

It's a curious thing that while we've had our fair share of indigenous players over the years we've never had a truly iconic player like a Rioli, a Winmar, a Franklin, a Farmer, a Burgoyne, an Adam Goodes or a Long. We've had quite a few handy players or flashy players but none with long careers at the WO. I know we had players like Phil Krakouer and Winmar but that was at the end of their illustrious careers. Perhaps Magic McLean came closest but he's more associated with Brisbane.

While there are lots of possible reasons for this I prefer to keep it simple until someone can prove otherwise: it's just bad luck. We've given it lots of shots and continue to do so, but never been lucky enough to find a true champion indigenous player (or we've not been able to keep him long enough to call him "ours" in the case of McLean). We've also had Brett Goodes working for us in the area of player welfare, no doubt with one eye out for the needs of our indigenous kids.

I'm certainly not suggesting anything like quotas or "reaching" for an indigenous player. We need to choose players on merit.
It's tricky ground too, because of the constant sensitivity about race-typing on the one hand and political correctness on the other.

Anyway, it would be great to see us develop our own iconic indigenous player. As a club that has always been associated with the disadvantaged and the underdog, and a club that is a leader in supporting diversity it just seems like such a natural fit.

If you view Wingard's presser he explains his decision to choose Hawthorn. His main reason for choosing them was that he thought he could get better at Hawthorn.

Guess who he spoke to when forming that opinion?

The people he named as key influencers of his decision were Clarko, Impey, Cyril and Shauny Burgoyne.

Until we build a recruiting network that can ID Indiegenous players for the draft (we seemingly rarely draft or spend high picks on them in comparison to other clubs) it seems highly unlikely we will attract a mature indigenous gun like Wingard.

Having said that our record of recruiting mature guns in their prime is poor anyway.

But good news we have re-signed Naughton long term. Going to be a gun and posssibly our best KPF since Grant.

 

[VitalDread]

Remember when people crack the sads we signed Sam Power as List manager

 

[BRWB]

Remember when people crack the sads we signed Sam Power as List manager

Power is inexperienced. Its a risk. Even less experienced than Dalrymple was and we recall his first draft. Power lost Dalhaus for not much after stating he was a major re-signing priority. Also lost Adams who he said he wanted to keep. And didn't get the Chad either.

Power has done well with Naughton but one swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

[dergert]

We must take advantage of having so many good young players on our list. I will be so disappointed if we squandered it.

 

[Mofra]

We have cap space as evidenced by our efforts in chasing May, Hurley, Winged the past few trade periods.

Right now I'd settle for a huge long term contract for Naughton. Best young KPP prospect we've drafted since Grant.

This is from Monday. I stand by it.
If I am smiling all day today you know why

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Power is inexperienced. Its a risk. Even less experienced than Dalrymple was and we recall his first draft. Power lost Dalhaus for not much after stating he was a major re-signing priority. Also lost Adams who he said he wanted to keep. And didn't get the Chad either.

Power has done well with Naughton but one swallow doesn't make a summer.

I don’t think he “lost” Dahlhaus or Adams, never mind what he said. We were never going to get Wingard, see comments above re indigenous players.

 

[BRWB]

I don’t think he “lost” Dahlhaus or Adams, never mind what he said. We were never going to get Wingard, see comments above re indigenous players.

So we give Power credit for re-signing players and no responsibility for not retaining required players?

Seems a little one sided.

 

[Mofra]

So we give Power credit for re-signing players and no responsibility for not retaining required players?

Seems a little one sided.

If we really wanted to keep Dahlhaus we would have. We have the cap space.

 

[Testekill]

So we give Power credit for re-signing players and no responsibility for not retaining required players?

Seems a little one sided.

Dahlhaus was cooked. Not worth the amount that he wanted us to give him

 

[BRWB]

If we really wanted to keep Dahlhaus we would have. We have the cap space.

I think we wanted to keep a motivated Dahlhaus. We weren't able to motivate him and made a commensurate offer.

I tend to look at a list manager role as essentially an açcount manager who must retain and win accounts (players). A key part of this role is to work with and co-ordinate operations (coaches etc) to create an environment attractive enough to attract and keep key accounts (players).

Its only early days but Power so far has a mixed record IMO.

No doubt he is sharp but his experience is a concern (albeit diminishing).

Do believe his negotiating skills are
already miles superior to JMac though.