Review Dogs Run Out Of Legs And Lose To Collingwood - Rd 4 2019

[Dog 36]

We played B.lynch last night we win.

Genuine speed and foot skills to match. Get him in.

 

[Munnez]

I know he is a fan favourite but would Cordy get a game at any top 8 side?
He was slaughtered in the last quarter by a literal easter egg.
This is the fault of the coaching staff leaving him as the only key defender.

I actually thought Cordy wasn't too bad, he didn't let that Spud Cox mark it. Just didn't have any support when it hit the ground.
The only thing that Cox did for the night was kick the goal after the mark that wasn't

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

another game that we prob should have won . its hard being down on the team. they played good for long periods of the game.
but same issues cost us the game. RUCK contest lost us the game in the 4th, we couldn't buy a center clearance and put pressure on the pies , instead they won the clearances and pushed us deep in our back half. at the end we ran out of legs it looked like it, in hindsight bevo should have dropped a few and rotated the team a little.

-naughton had a good 3rd qtr. enjoyed that. but quiet for the first.
-crozier was one of our best. that mark was ******* great
- schache is a concern, what will it take for him to have confidence?
- daniel was good again, i didnt like him taking the kick outs in the 4th when we were trapped deep, suckling needed to take the kick ins
- english is being fed like a lamb to the slaughter
- mids need more goals
- poor turn overs when switching the ball in def
- wood is cooked. doesnt offer anything as a player
- leg speed an issue again. we cant get any separation at all !!!! cant buy a goal run and carry (rockets team feasted on this)

overall work in progress

 

[fronkalicious]

Effort - superb.
5 day break a factor? - yep
Smashed by the best ruckman in the league? - yep
Quality opposition? - yep
Our skill level down? - yep.

All in all I think it was a decent result. We kept pendles, Sidebottom and treloar under control despite the ruck issue.

We played our asses off and lost. That’s where we’re at.

I didn’t follow selection at all this week, and I love playing English (and think we should keep doing so), but gee Trengove would have been handy to take a run at Grundy and Cox in that last quarter.

Crozier is such a gem. And while I’m at it, suckling has been a fantastic player for us as well. Well done lads.

 

[Munnez]

But he was far from our worst tonight, kept us in it. Dickson, Schache and Gowers kept us from winning it!

Our delivery into the forward line was just woeful last night. At no stage did we put it to our forwards advantage just went with the bomb it long without looking to see where the forwards were.
So we just ended up making Roughy look good. Just got picked off or had their defenders clean it up

 

[Hobdog]

My take from the presser: Bevo’s frustration was visible. Conceded that we’ll continue to get monstered in the ruck (why didn’t we make a play for a mature ruckman in the trade period?), forward line continues to make it extremely hard for themselves (this has clearly been an issue for five years), and teams with tall forwards are going to get hold of us.


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[Munnez]

Look forward to it mate. I actually thought we didn’t capitalise on Grundy’s ruckwork anywhere near much as we should have but that might be a discussion for our board. English didn’t drop his head once though and kept fronting up which shows some pretty good character.

English got schooled tonight but I think it will only be good for his long term development. He never gave up and needs time to develop the core strength in the body to compete.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I've worked in my current job for 13 years and been a model employee for almost the entirety of my career. The time when I wasn't at my best? Last year when my father became extremely ill. The back and forth between Melbourne and the 16 hours it took to drive back home were a killer and affected my perfomance greatly.

Lucky for me I had an understanding boss who supported me through my darkest moments. Anyone who thinks that what happens in your personal life shouldnt impact your professional life is absolutely kidding themselves.

There are a myriad of reasons why people dont perform to the best of their abilities...I'm all for constructive criticism of the way players perform, however, calling them soft and pea hearted from the comfort of behind a keyboard is out of bounds for me.

Absolutely. I think what frustrates people is that he can look like he's just about to rip a game up one week and then disappear the next couple of weeks. You just want him to crash a pack. Throw his body around.

If a player (any player) is struggling, hopefully they put their hand up and step away because if they don't, they just leave themselves open to criticism. That's not fair, but it just opens that door.

 

[Mofra]

My take from the presser: Bevo’s frustration was visible. Conceded that we’ll continue to get monstered in the ruck (why didn’t we make a play for a mature ruckman in the trade period?), forward line continues to make it extremely hard for themselves (this has clearly been an issue for five years), and teams with tall forwards are going to get hold of us.


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I wanted a mature ruck at trade time, we took the developing Sweet who is the same age as English and who is still building his tank. Strange one.

Trengove was line ball with English during JLT. Schache gives us nothing as R2 right now. Hopefully Trengove pulls up OK after the VFL game as he can't be worse forward than Schache the past two games

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Our delivery into the forward line was just woeful last night. At no stage did we put it to our forwards advantage just went with the bomb it long without looking to see where the forwards were.
So we just ended up making Roughy look good. Just got picked off or had their defenders clean it up

i remember in the 3rd. open forward , lloyd was leading, had a paddock on the left, bont kicks it to the advantage of the pies defender. just sums us up, no cohesion and our mids lose composure.

 

[Munnez]

I thought Wood played better in this game

Thought Wood was a liability all night just wondering how is he going to turn it over now any time he had it

 

[Munnez]

i remember in the 3rd. open forward , lloyd was leading, had a paddock on the left, bont kicks it to the advantage of the pies defender. just sums us up, no cohesion and our mids lose composure.

Should never of happened Bont was within range he should of just went back and slotted it himself. He just has Zero conference at the minute with his goal kicking

 

[Billy Bob65]

Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the match. In case you missed one of these posts from the 2nd half of last season, this is an overall summary of how often players started as one of the 5 mids at centre bounces. Given the closeness of the game, I've switched things up and listed who you were relying on in the last term to get the job done, rather than a 2nd half summary.

Overall Summary - 24 Bounces

Macrae 21
Hunter 21 wing
Libba 21
Bont 17
Johannisen 15 wing
Dunkley 7 wing
Wallis 7
B.Smith 6
Gowers 5 wing

Ruck:

English 18 (Grundy 22)
Schache 6 (Cox 2)

1st Half - 8

Hunter 8 wing
Macrae 7
Libba 7
Bont 5
B.Smith 5
Johannisen 4 wing
Dunkley 4 wing

English 5
Schache 3

Final Term - 8

Hunter 8 wing
Libba 8
Macrae 7
Bont 7
Johannisen 4 wing
Dunkley 2 wing
Wallis 2
Gowers 2 wing

English 7
Schache 1

Notes:
- I didn't review Rd 3's game so some of these changes may've been made last week, but there were 3 big changes to the midfield from Rds 1 & 2: Richards went from 1st choice wing to removed from the midfield mix entirely; Wallis's inside time was drastically reduced (didn't receive a start at all in the 1st half); Dunkley's midfield time was also reduced, with his inside starts gone entirely - first game without an inside start since his mid-season return last year.
- Most midfield starts for Johannisen (in analysed games) and only the 2nd time he has finished in your top 6 - the other being Rd 6, 2018.
- The first wing start recorded for Dunkley (in analysed games) since Rd 2, 2018 and his 2nd most wing starts after Rd 17, 2017. His midfield time comparisons (percentage of bounces per game starting as 1 of the mids): Rd 22, 2018: 67%; Rd 1: 43%; Rd 2: 52%; Rd 4: 29%
- Wallis's midfield time comparison: Rd 1: 57%; Rd 2: 55%; Rd 4: 29%

 

[Munnez]

Not sure what's happened to Williams and Lynch. Both looked incredible at the back end of last year, and now are showing only slightly above average form in the VFL. Need them performing

Lynch was better at AFL level than VFL level think we just need to bring him in and see If he can produce. We really need some better delivery into the forward 50

 

[House_of_Dahl]

The Tim English problem is fascinating.

I can't recall a Footscray/WB side getting so comprehensively thrashed in the hitouts as we were tonight. For those who missed it the HO stats were: Grundy 58, Cox 2, English 6. Overall Collingwood 60, WB 6.

On that stat alone you'd expect us to have been pulverised. That we weren't is testament to a strong midfield performance from a bunch of players who must be getting pretty good at reading the opposition ruckmen's taps. I'd also be interested in the Hit-outs to Advantage stats if anyone has them. I suspect they will tell a similar story but they might give us a hint as to why the ruck dominance wasn't fully reflected on the scoreboard.

Anyway despite all that, I'm not in the "drop English" brigade.

The obvious defence of him is that he was up against one of the best rucks in the AFL, that he was coming off a 5-day break and that he had virtually no back-up (Schache did compete in a few ruck contests without winning a HO). He's also roughly where Grundy was about 3-4 years ago in terms of physical development. He's still only 21. Grundy turns 25 on Monday - he's much stronger and bulkier.

However I think we're also overlooking what English does around the ground. This, after all, has been the biggest wrap on the kid. It's never been about his ability at the hitouts. He was originally a midfielder who just grew ... and grew.

I thought he did some really valuable link-up work in open play and quite often in traffic too. He took six marks (1 CM) and was equal second best for tackles for us tonight. His disposal stats were OK too - 17 disposals at 88.2% DE with only 2 clangers. Now compare that to some regular midfielders like Wallis (19 disposals at 84.2% and five clangers ... is there a howlers category?) or Dunkley (15 disposals at 100% with 1 clanger) or Bailey Smith (13 disposals at 92% with 2 clangers). On those stats he's actually matching it with some of our mid-sized midfielders. On the eye test he was better than Smith and Dunkley at least. And Wallis's howlers undid a lot of the good work that player did.

So what's the answer? I think we need to keep pumping games into English but I don't think he plays as the main ruck for a while yet. Maybe 25-40% of the time. An opportunity opens up if we decide Schache has to be dropped. He could be an alternative aerial target up forward, maybe as a high forward so we can find a reasonable target around the 50m arc. This would also take some of the heat off Naughton. Or he could be the one who helps fill the height gap in defence since Naughton vacated it. I think Timmy did drop back to try to cover the Cox threat a few times tonight.

For now I'd be bringing Trengove back in to at least try to neutralise the ruck disadvantage. It looks like he had a pretty solid game in the VFL tonight. Later we could look at Boyd when he's ready. Or even Sweet, if he's making progress.

IMO if English remains our #1 ruck all this year we might make him or break him, but either way I don't think we are giving the 2019 season our best shot. You can't expect to make the eight and win finals without a competitive tap ruckman.

It really is a conundrum. Played his best game as a midfielder, and much better around the ground than a ruck at his stage should be. But 10-1 taps. But we aren't losing the clearances and as a team we are performing above expectations. But still 10-1 taps is pretty extreme.

 

[Munnez]

Schache is a big flanker. Not a KP in heart - needs to get on his bike and work betwen the arcs. Still crossing fingers on Boyd (getting arthritis)...

He has the tank to cover the ground I think he should be given some license like Tom Lynch from Adelaide. Who knows might even be able to get some cheapies out the back If he can turn his defender inside out

 

[Munnez]

It's strange.
Wallis was excellent forward late last year. Dunkley killed it as a pure inside mid.

Think Bevo is trying a little too hard to be 'innovative' just need to play people where they are best suited. And the rest will work itself out

 

[Munnez]

Noticed Naughton getting double teamed a few times by the Collingwood defenders when we'd go for the forward 50 entry. Resulted in a ball spilling to the ground nearly every time, but we were getting nothing out of it. This is exactly why we need a proper small forward. Playing a s**t load of midfielder types as medium forwards is getting us nowhere (Dunkley, McLean, Lloyd, Gowers, etc). Wallis needs to be permanent forward, Dunkley needs to stay away from the forward 50, McLean needs to spend far more time in the middle, and we desperately need to find ourselves a decent small forward

This is exactly where I see Roarke having a chance to reinvent himself as a pressure small forward who can snag a couple

 

[Charlie Bucket]

It’s upsetting missing out on the 4pts the last two weeks but, for me, I’m pretty happy with how we’re travelling.
Skill errors and execution are the only thing costing us atm and the only thing giving the oppo a chance against us.
Not many teams can boast having their matches in their own hands.

Two games in a row we didn’t play very well yet probably could’ve/should’ve won both. That’s on top of wins against the Swans and the Hawks.

Some really good signs for this season and the following ones.


For the Carlton game i’d bring Trengove in for Schache. Trengove ruck majority with English fwd. Took some nice grabs last night and would benefit from a run up fwd.
Schache just needs a freshen up. Hopefully gets a bit of confidence up in the twos.
Just the one change. No one really banging the door down apart from Lipi but I’d say Bevo has told him he needs consistent form before coming up as his pre season form was local football level.

 

[Golden_6]

It was definitely English’ best game around the ground last night but it’s concerning how easily he’s getting beaten in the ruck, even against a monster like Grundy.

He’s still skinny but he’s 21. I’d cop losing 50-20 or something like that, but 60-6 is downright concerning. The sheer ease in that he was moved out of contests without Grundy giving award a free was fascinating. He’s got time on his side though so it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Crozier has become an excellent defender. One of Beveridge’s favourites in my IMO. Good in the air, quick, tough and skillful.

 

[Munnez]

Bloody play Lewis Young you d!ckwads

Work out if he can make it this year or move him on.

Wood and Moz both finish at the end of the year so let’s see why he has for the test of the year.

I have come to think we are a mid table team this year somewhere around the 9-14 so we should absolutely persist with English and test Lewy Young and others to see if they can be part of the next wave going forward

 

[BRWB]

He has the tank to cover the ground I think he should be given some license like Tom Lynch from Adelaide. Who knows might even be able to get some cheapies out the back If he can turn his defender inside out

Ha just made the same Lynch/Schache comparison in the changes thread.

 

[Cadillac]

another game that we prob should have won . its hard being down on the team. they played good for long periods of the game.
but same issues cost us the game. RUCK contest lost us the game in the 4th, we couldn't buy a center clearance and put pressure on the pies , instead they won the clearances and pushed us deep in our back half. at the end we ran out of legs it looked like it, in hindsight bevo should have dropped a few and rotated the team a little.

-naughton had a good 3rd qtr. enjoyed that. but quiet for the first.
-crozier was one of our best. that mark was ******* great
- schache is a concern, what will it take for him to have confidence?
- daniel was good again, i didnt like him taking the kick outs in the 4th when we were trapped deep, suckling needed to take the kick ins
- english is being fed like a lamb to the slaughter
- mids need more goals
- poor turn overs when switching the ball in def
- wood is cooked. doesnt offer anything as a player
- leg speed an issue again. we cant get any separation at all !!!! cant buy a goal run and carry (rockets team feasted on this)

overall work in progress

In regards to Naughton. Name me a key forward who would have played well in that first half when the ball use and movement was at a snail pace? Every time we went inside 50 Collingwood had spare players back blocking up the areas Naughton wanted to lead into. Resulting in us forcing it deep into him. He had absolutely no chop out at all from either of Schache and Gowers for two consecutive games now.

 

[lachy]

Schache Dickson and Dunkley/Wallis out

Smith, Lipinski and Young in

Who is the second ruck MD?

I would take the risk with an underdone Boyd but the safer option in Trengove

 

[ScragCity]

Anyone who thinks Trengove wouldn't have been similarly dominated by Grundy has a very short memory.