Retired #29: Patrick Ambrose - Officially retired - 11/8

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29 - [PLAYERCARD]Patrick Ambrose[/PLAYERCARD].jpg

Contract Status: Retired. 11/8
Last Game Played: Elimination Final 2019 (injured)
Injury Status: Injured, stayed in Vic with a young baby - 18/7
Sore, finished the VFL game on the bench - 29/6
 
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Not attacking or flashy enough to be AA

Is a great stopper 1 on 1 but wont get enough of the ball to be AA
 

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owen87 said:
As in; the lack of flexibility he offers compared to a Gleeson, Ridley or Redman who (appear) to have much more upside in roles they can play.

In reality, given injuries and such, Ambrose is likely to play many games if fit, but is he a best-22 defender with all players fit and available?
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There is quite a bit of talk of Ambrose playing in the middle but he doesn't train in the role and, other than a stint running to the ball from half forward to add to midfield congestion under Hird, he has never done it.

The idea of Ambrose playing in the middle is really just based on his running capacity, rather than any nous he has displayed and certainly not the cleanliness of his general ground level play (especially his ball handling, both picking the thing up and getting away clean handballs, which is not great). Luke McPharlin and Schofield at West Coast were also genuinely elite runners who I do not recall having played a second on-ball. There will have been stacks of others - playing as a tall defender is a great role for an athletic beast.

He's a competent defender and I think he's good enough to, and that it's likely that he'll, play a lot of football this year. It's arguable that he's the second best pure stopper we have (behind Hurley) so I expect that he'll cover both Hurley and Hooker. I'd probably back him on more types of players than Hooker who struggles to run with forwards other than the big lumberers - Hooker has other strengths such as being arguably the most dominant intercept defender in the game. Ambrose would be a better chance of working Tom Lynch (Richmond), who on paper is too big for Ambrose, under the ball than, for example, Hooker running with players like Jeremy Cameron or Jack Darling.

I'm not sure that Ambrose is far ahead of Ridley in terms of the quality of his football. He's more mature and a freak athlete but it is not as though he has strung even 10 quality games together (primarily due to problems with injury in the last 18 months which is when it would have happened). Sure he has belted Jack Riewoldt but then Hurley has been doing that for years - Jack is a weird player who tends not to dominate opponents (either on the lead or in packs) as much as he is a supremely smart player and opportunist whose forward craft enables him score a lot.

We know that the coaches like Ambrose, and it's a view which is easy to support because of his work rate/capacity and because he has played some good footy, but given the lack of genuinely good football strung together it's also possible that we've seen him at his peak and he's no better than being a depth player who can play out of his skin every now and then.

I don't think that Ridley has to be near his peak to be a better player than Ambrose, because Ridley bridges the physical gap between the players with raw football ability (i.e. reading the game, knowing where and how to position himself and also being able to find and use the ball at a genuinely high level).

Gleeson is the other player who is very much in the discussion but he's a long way back at the moment. I'd like to see 2019 Gleeson v 2019 Ridley because I doubt that there is much if any gap between the players.
 
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BrunoV said:
There is quite a bit of talk of Ambrose playing in the middle but he doesn't train in the role and, other than a stint running to the ball from half forward to add to midfield congestion under Hird, he has never done it.

The idea of Ambrose playing in the middle is really just based on his running capacity, rather than any nous he has displayed and certainly not the cleanliness of his general ground level play (especially his ball handling, both picking the thing up and getting away clean handballs, which is not great). Luke McPharlin and Schofield at West Coast were also genuinely elite runners who I do not recall having played a second on-ball. There will have been stacks of others - playing as a tall defender is a great role for an athletic beast.

He's a competent defender and I think he's good enough to, and that it's likely that he'll, play a lot of football this year. It's arguable that he's the second best pure stopper we have (behind Hurley)
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When you put those two together I'd like him to play as a stopper through the middle. Kevin Sheedy summed it up best when he was describing modern day big mids. They are basically your old fashioned CHF. Therefore, it goes without saying we should play an old fashioned CHB on them. That isn't necessary for all teams because they have someone to go head to head with them and through sheer weight of attacking numbers either draw the contest or even edge them out. Essendon does not have anyone like that. Essendon has Langford, Myers or Laverde who could potentially play this role. Laverde has a lot to prove still (but I am a massive fan still) and Langford and Myers will be serviceable at best. That is no slight I mean it in the best possible way, but neither are going to have the impact on games that Dangerfield, Kennedy, Martin. Cripps or similar do.

Essendon can play Ambrose in the 22 to take either a very large 3rd tall forward, like Darling, or the big-bodied mid. Yes, he won't be a damaging attacking player, but if he can neutralise an oppositions big mid (the player most likely to tear Essendon a new bottom) then our classy mids should be able to get the edge.

Ambrose can run with someone as a defender. He can also go forward and tag a big counter attacking-defender. He could even tag the West Coast player who played the GF with sore ribs (please excuse early onset dementia).

Essendon could go into the game with two out and out stoppers in Hurley and Ambrose. Hooker and Francis could set up with intercepting more in mind. The player that Ambrose would be stopping could be anyone in any third of the ground.

Let's not forget that Ambrose is a freak not because he's the best runner the club has ever had. He's a freak because he's the best runner the club has ever had AND he is very strong. Currently, a long way ahead in bench pressing record at the club I think. If a club can't find a role for him it says that either our coaching staff has a lack of vision or we have the best list in the league. I would rather play him with a role than some kid who will probably end up better but still has a long way to go. Let that kid develop in the magoos with responsibility there, and step into seniors filling a slot.
 
Fined $1000 (with early plea) for engaging in a melee.
 
eth-dog said:
Who started it Lore?
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Article only says that it was in the second quarter. If I remember correctly it's the same incident that had Fantasia more enthusiastic than effective, I think the camera-side pocket at the Lloyd end? Different incident from Hurley who got into it with someone after Andy got laid out flat.
 
Can we all just accept that Ambrose is a s**t AFL footballer?
 

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He beat McDonald but at the same time he's not as good as Hurley, Hooker or Francis, and he was poor with ball in hand. He goes out for Hooker.
 
dnbassador said:
Some people were asking for him to get dropped this week!

Lucky we didn’t he gave Hipwood a bath today
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A good game doesn't erode years of mediocrity. If it is terrifying every time he has the ball in hands then your days as an AFL footballer should surely be numbered.

Ambrose shouldn't be getting be getting games over Francis. That was true last year, last week and for the rest of the season.
 
calyam said:
A good game doesn't erode years of mediocrity. If it is terrifying every time he has the ball in hands then your days as an AFL footballer should surely be numbered.

Ambrose shouldn't be getting be getting games over Francis. That was true last year, last week and for the rest of the season.
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McGrath gets sling tackled and he was the only one to fire up gets credits with me
 
There was nothing in that tackle. Ambrose is lucky he didn't give away a goal.
 
Rambrose brings intent.
Does his job and hits hard.
Great part of our backline allowing others space and support.
The opposition know he's there!
Bit like the Richmond model.
 
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