List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


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Apr 25, 2011
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Problem 4: Ross decides not to tag the gutless coward puncher in the first 1/4. He should have been pissing in his boots and mentally stuffed not knowing where the next bump was coming from instead was able to get 10 possessions, WC have 5 goals to 1 and a 26 pt first 1/4 lead. He built his confidence with the crowd's cheers and went on to get 35 possessions. If you wanted to shut the crowd up why wasn't he given a tough but fair tag to take him mentally and physically out of the game. He should have had zero possessions that quarter but wasn't even pressured.

Going in to the game, the umpires eyes would have been on GAGF to make sure he wasn't targeted and they probably would have been quick on the whistle for that. We removed any chance for the umps to do this, at the end of the day we ended up with 19 frees for to WCE 12 - someone forgot to tell the umps that they were there for an Eagles game.
 
Oct 12, 2017
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I think we can sometimes over analyse things as supporters. To sum the game up from a Freo perspective, I thought we:

a) shut down the Eagles game completely, especially after quarter time.
b) created enough chances to win.

I may be different to some other supporters on here but I would take good structure and organisation over anything else. I don't want to be like Essendon and play russian roulette even when we are meant to be a good side. I think the longer the forward group plays together, the cleaner and more cohesion we will play with. The more we win, the more confidence the players will have and that will lead to less mistakes. I think we are on the right path.
I guess you don't want to be like Brisbane or GC as well both of whom with young teams and attacking game plans that may come unstuck occasionally are showing positive signs in rebuilding with game plans that are winning and sustainable and increasing the cohesiveness of the playing group.

I agree with a) and b) and I'll add we showed a way to beat WC and didn't try to outgun them.

However the suffocating, skill destroying effort it takes to keep this up all game as well as giving up our fwd structure to do this is unsustainable. I think we ran 14 km more than WC, throughout the game so the effort was undeniable. We gave the same effort the week before and managed to hang on for the win against St Kilda, but players were still so fagged on Tuesday RTB cancelled the skills training for a light beach session.

WTF, he's made it all about effort and gassed the players so cancels a skill session then complains about the skills! Unbelievable.

But even RTB should understand that he needs to practice skills such as goal kicking under fatigue and simulated pressure, not unload on the players to "own their own" skills.
 
Oct 12, 2017
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Going in to the game, the umpires eyes would have been on GAGF to make sure he wasn't targeted and they probably would have been quick on the whistle for that. We removed any chance for the umps to do this, at the end of the day we ended up with 19 frees for to WCE 12 - someone forgot to tell the umps that they were there for an Eagles game.
So the umps favoured us because we left GAGF alone? Yeh maybe! I understand they would have been aware of him but I was asking for a good old fashioned tag like what DeBoar is doing or Banfield last year. To have GAGF running around accumulating possessions and confidence and being cheered for every one of them especially in the first, was wrong and pissed me off. Didn't have to be anything illegal but being worn like a glove. Big error I thought.
 
Feb 5, 2011
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So the umps favoured us because we left GAGF alone? Yeh maybe! I understand they would have been aware of him but I was asking for a good old fashioned tag like what DeBoar is doing or Banfield last year. To have GAGF running around accumulating possessions and confidence and being cheered for every one of them especially in the first, was wrong and pissed me off. Didn't have to be anything illegal but being worn like a glove. Big error I thought.


Man I wish the boss thought like you. Why does our useless coach never think of the crowd?

There's perceived pressure, scoreboard pressure and cheer pressure 3 phases of pressure people, come on!
 
Oct 12, 2017
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Man I wish the boss thought like you. Why does our useless coach never think of the crowd?

There's perceived pressure, scoreboard pressure and cheer pressure 3 phases of pressure people, come on!
And defensive pressure which we value.

Eagles always think of cheer pressure ... I like it, and think you've coined a new term!!

And of course scoreboard pressure, probably the most important in a game, and we need to practise it.

Perceived pressure for training drills to replicate game situations!
 
Apr 25, 2011
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So the umps favoured us because we left GAGF alone? Yeh maybe! I understand they would have been aware of him but I was asking for a good old fashioned tag like what DeBoar is doing or Banfield last year. To have GAGF running around accumulating possessions and confidence and being cheered for every one of them especially in the first, was wrong and pissed me off. Didn't have to be anything illegal but being worn like a glove. Big error I thought.

I'm more saying, that giving them a few free kicks at centere bounces because he was looked at the wrong way would have killed us, we were already going to have a struggle without Fyfe/Sandi/Shill/Blakely, we didn't have a strong midfield against the premier team.
 
I guess you don't want to be like Brisbane or GC as well both of whom with young teams and attacking game plans that may come unstuck occasionally are showing positive signs in rebuilding with game plans that are winning and sustainable and increasing the cohesiveness of the playing group.

I agree with a) and b) and I'll add we showed a way to beat WC and didn't try to outgun them.

However the suffocating, skill destroying effort it takes to keep this up all game as well as giving up our fwd structure to do this is unsustainable. I think we ran 14 km more than WC, throughout the game so the effort was undeniable. We gave the same effort the week before and managed to hang on for the win against St Kilda, but players were still so fagged on Tuesday RTB cancelled the skills training for a light beach session.

WTF, he's made it all about effort and gassed the players so cancels a skill session then complains about the skills! Unbelievable.

But even RTB should understand that he needs to practice skills such as goal kicking under fatigue and simulated pressure, not unload on the players to "own their own" skills.
That young Lions side that was the same age as WC in round 1? That has been over 25 years every game with around 100 games of experience on average. More than any Freo side and on average at the upper end for the comp?

Or

The Attacking GCS side that has scored less than Freo and conceded more. The side that has played in 4 games with a margin of less than 5 points. That has a high score of 84 for the season, playing dour lock down games to take the points. A side that played so defensive against us that they won.

If a middle aged list and a team playing ultra defensive football are your examples of young, attacking teams it confirms my opinions that a lot of Freo supporters don't watch much else. They only belief the narrative being spread.
 

benfica

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That young Lions side that was the same age as WC in round 1? That has been over 25 years every game with around 100 games of experience on average. More than any Freo side and on average at the upper end for the comp?

Or

The Attacking GCS side that has scored less than Freo and conceded more. The side that has played in 4 games with a margin of less than 5 points. That has a high score of 84 for the season, playing dour lock down games to take the points. A side that played so defensive against us that they won.

If a middle aged list and a team playing ultra defensive football are your examples of young, attacking teams it confirms my opinions that a lot of Freo supporters don't watch much else. They only belief the narrative being spread.
lol relax that one game against norf was an anomaly...now take that game out and the picture is clear
 
Oct 12, 2017
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That young Lions side that was the same age as WC in round 1? That has been over 25 years every game with around 100 games of experience on average. More than any Freo side and on average at the upper end for the comp?

Or

The Attacking GCS side that has scored less than Freo and conceded more. The side that has played in 4 games with a margin of less than 5 points. That has a high score of 84 for the season, playing dour lock down games to take the points. A side that played so defensive against us that they won.

If a middle aged list and a team playing ultra defensive football are your examples of young, attacking teams it confirms my opinions that a lot of Freo supporters don't watch much else. They only belief the narrative being spread.
I guess stats never lie rights?
Both GC and Brisbane lists are younger that Freo in 2019
1555310000767.png


They are also under us for years of experience in 2019.

1555310051030.png

https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/26/2019-afl-lists-oldest-youngest-most-and-least-experienced/

Maybe a defensive team outdefended us however I'm interested in that they are both rebuilding and both in lower positions than us, and they both are able to come back from two or three goals down and win. That is un measurable, playing for each other cohesiveness, positiveness, better skills or what ever you want to call it. Those teams are both developing it and we're not.
 

wayToGo_

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Both GC and Brisbane lists are younger that Freo in 2019
I suspect tants means "Teams" not "Lists"... We seem to have to clarify this misunderstanding all the time. Freo have a heap of age and experience not playing - Sandi, Ballas, SHill, Fyfe make up 4 of our 6 oldest and most experienced players (Mundy and Walters the ones playing). The only reason we are not the youngest team each week atm is because of players like Matera, Colyer and Conca - not exactly key players. We are playing Tucker (22) and Brayshaw (19) as two of our starting mids!
 
I guess stats never lie rights?
Both GC and Brisbane lists are younger that Freo in 2019
View attachment 655205

They are also under us for years of experience in 2019.

View attachment 655210
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/26/2019-afl-lists-oldest-youngest-most-and-least-experienced/

Maybe a defensive team outdefended us however I'm interested in that they are both rebuilding and both in lower positions than us, and they both are able to come back from two or three goals down and win. That is un measurable, playing for each other cohesiveness, positiveness, better skills or what ever you want to call it. Those teams are both developing it and we're not.

Age of list vs age of the team played during games. Sandi skews both our age and games profile significantly. If he starts playing we will improve onfield significantly (IMO, we would be undefeated with him playing such was our rucking failures in the two losses).

The fact you're interested in them coming back from 2-3 goals down wasn't your point. You said young and attacking teams like Lions and GC. We are younger than Brisbane and signficantly more attacking than GC. You are moving your goalposts again, now. Talking about "un measurable, playing for each other cohesiveness, positiveness, better skills or what ever you want to call it. Those teams are both developing it and we're not."

Another point I disagree on. I think they are playing for each other, more than at any time in the last 2-3 seasons. I think the team itself would be very positive with their season so far. I'm sure they will be ruing the missed opportunities against WC and GC. Lions are developed, their mid-tier recruiting is a sign they are pushing for a shot this year. GC are young and are developing. So are we. As for skills, if you watched GC or Liosn you woudl see their skills are on par with ours.

lol relax that one game against norf was an anomaly...now take that game out and the picture is clear
You can't discount 25% of the games, no matter how much of an outlier it appears. Otherwise, I get to discount games played against the premiers and we are still averaging 90ppg.
 

youmewe

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For the record: Freo v Brisbane v Gold Coast (Rd 4 teams).

Freo

Average age: 24 yrs, 234 days.
Games experience: 1610.
Players < 50 games: 8.
Players < 22 yrs: 4.
Players < 23 yrs: 6.
Players < 24 yrs: 9.

Brisbane
Average age: 25 yrs, 129 days.
Games experience: 2132.
Players < 50 games: 7.
Players < 22 yrs: 5.
Players < 23 yrs: 7.
Players < 24 yrs: 10.

Gold Coast
Average age: 23 yrs, 348 days.
Games experience: 1445.
Players < 50 games: 10.
Players < 22 yrs: 8.
Players < 23 yrs: 9.
Players < 24 yrs: 12.
 

Scham

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For the record: Freo v Brisbane v Gold Coast (Rd 4 teams).

Freo

Average age: 24 yrs, 234 days.
Games experience: 1610.
Players < 50 games: 8.
Players < 22 yrs: 4.
Players < 23 yrs: 6.
Players < 24 yrs: 9.

Brisbane
Average age: 25 yrs, 129 days.
Games experience: 2132.
Players < 50 games: 7.
Players < 22 yrs: 5.
Players < 23 yrs: 7.
Players < 24 yrs: 10.

Gold Coast
Average age: 23 yrs, 348 days.
Games experience: 1445.
Players < 50 games: 10.
Players < 22 yrs: 8.
Players < 23 yrs: 9.
Players < 24 yrs: 12.

So bugger all in it then. Age and experience isn’t a key difference in the three teams. Put a line through that.
 
So bugger all in it then. Age and experience isn’t a key difference in the three teams. Put a line through that.
Brisbane a full year older and 30 games more experience is significantly different to GC and Freo. They are not a young team.

We're on average 7 games more experienced than GC, that is much closer.
 
Sep 4, 2004
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Would look like wins against both GCSs and WCEs.

Let's not include Sandi in the conversation I reckon as I don't think he will be a main part of our team this year. He's been amazing and deserves to be seen as a modern ruck great but we can't count on him far as the rebuild goes other then a six to 10 game spell this year imo.

Fyfe though we had for the GCS game. I'm not sure if anyone can dodge that this years Brisbane Lions are a fairly equal comparison to us.

We should be able to watch how they go to assess our rebuild.

Similar number of players under 50 games. Similar number of players under 24.
 

wayToGo_

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Let's not include Sandi in the conversation I reckon as I don't think he will be a main part of our team this year. He's been amazing and deserves to be seen as a modern ruck great but we can't count on him far as the rebuild goes other then a six to 10 game spell this year imo.

Fyfe though we had for the GCS game. I'm not sure if anyone can dodge that this years Brisbane Lions are a fairly equal comparison to us.

We should be able to watch how they go to assess our rebuild.

Similar number of players under 50 games. Similar number of players under 24.
How about this to get a sense of the respective age and experience variation between Brisbane and Fremantle...

Rd 1 - Brisbane vs West Coast - very similar age and experience demographic
1555319813734.png

Rd 4 - West Coast vs Fremantle - huge age and exp disparity, West Coast had 7 more players with 150+ games experience
1555319854312.png
 
Apr 25, 2011
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Brisbane 4 on the ladder
Gold Coast 6 on the ladder
and Freo on 7.

If anyone suggested those ladder positions at the end of round 4, before the season had started, I would have laughed at them.
All very temporary, Brisbane the only team credibly expected in the 8 at the end of the year - but maybe a fork shouldn't be stuck in either the Suns or the Dockers yet.

Everyone has expected Brisbane to improve, the Suns have won 3 games - well done to them, you can't take these 3 wins away from them and it will help them get some confidence and help to build the club - we were the joke of the competition when we started, they have my sympathy.
 

Scham

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Brisbane a full year older and 30 games more experience is significantly different to GC and Freo. They are not a young team.

We're on average 7 games more experienced than GC, that is much closer.

Nah, nothing in it. Brisbane are nowhere near a full year older. In any case these age and experience stats mean diddly squat unless there’s a massive difference, (particularly in players under 30 games experience)which there’s not between these 3 teams.

If you want a debate on how these teams are different, you need to look elsewhere. Quality of team. Game plan . Win/loss. Percentage.
 
Sep 4, 2004
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How about this to get a sense of the respective age and experience variation between Brisbane and Fremantle...

Rd 1 - Brisbane vs West Coast - very similar age and experience demographic
View attachment 655353
Rd 4 - West Coast vs Fremantle - huge age and exp disparity, West Coast had 7 more players with 150+ games experience
View attachment 655354

Our last game was clearly a younger team. Seems like cherry picking the week that suits your argument.

Why are people so prepared to minimise what we should expect from our team.

I'm comparing us to a team that won 4 games last year and I'm still getting grief about it not being a fair comparison.

What are people afraid of with this comparison?
 
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