I reckon you'll have a sneaky lookI sure as hell won’t be watching them as that was by far the most painful defeat I have had as a supporter for well over 15 years.
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I reckon you'll have a sneaky lookI sure as hell won’t be watching them as that was by far the most painful defeat I have had as a supporter for well over 15 years.
So the coach is going well?Pretty certain Harmesy would not be impressed with you using his name to spout such drivel
Guessing's for losersSo the coach is going well?
Game style -one dimensional.
They never attack thru corridor- only boundary line. No overlap running by anyone other than Cripps. No forward structure. Same as last year. Loss-loss-loss-loss ... any guesses on next match result?
Thanks for the good work...its really good to see it like that..especially when it reinforces what we keep hoping is happening......View attachment 655439
GAME 70 Rnd 4 2019 - LOSS vs Gold Coast (57-59)
16 Youth Players
Coaches Votes: 10 Patrick Cripps, 5 Sam Walsh
Youth - AFL Player Ratings (+/- change)
Patrick Cripps – 552 (+11)
Charlie Curnow - 366 (+1)
Nic Newman - 308 (+8)
Lachie Plowman - 288 (-4)
Zac Fisher – 300 (+2)
Jacob Weitering - 285 (+11)
Sam Petrevski-Seton – 276 (+1)
Mitch McGovern - 206 (+12)
Paddy Dow – 198 (+12)
Caleb Marchbank - 161 (+1)
Harry McKay - 156 (+1)
Lochie O'Brien - 76 (+4)
Will Setterfield - 16 (-1)
Michael Gibbons - 17 (+2)
Sam Walsh - 44 (+17)
Average: 216
Sam Walsh and Patrick Cripps are amazing, absolutely amazing. AFL Player Ratings loved Paddy Dow's game. Weitering and McGovern also had great games on these ratings.
Highest ever average Player Rating we've ever had.
Can't believe it was ever called a 66 game rebuild. Does the rebuild end when we get all the players we want on our list or does it end when those players mature and we start playing good football?
I would go with the latter.
Crunch the numbers...
In 2015 a rebuild will mean we replace all but 3 players. Docherty, Cripps and Jones.
That means that the task is to find 37 players of elite to good quality.
Those players will need to be allowed to mature which happens at around 22-24 years of age.
No priority picks or special compensation. Starting from a low base so not too many players to trade out so we're limited and trading out is going to hurt. No expendable players to trade.
We get 3 good draft picks per season. Without being crafty and getting package deals with our trades that means it would take 12 years to find 37 good players. 6 years to find 22. Plus 3 or 4 years for them to mature.
With aggressive trading and drafting and big list turnovers we can half that to 6 or 7 years. So 3 or 4 to find 22. Plus their development time frame of 3-4 years.
Crunch the numbers people. We are actually on track. No one wants to hear about 6 or 7 year rebuilds but this is the reality of it.
We are 4 years into a 6 or 7 year rebuild where we will be spending most of it down the bottom.
That will only change when we have our full list of players and most of them are in that 22 or 23-28 year old age bracket.
2015 - Rebuild begins, Clean out and heavy recruitment - Focus on talls
2016 - clean out and heavy recruitment - Focus on mids and flankers
2017 - Clean out focus on mids and a Ruck/forward etc
2018 - Rock bottom and heavy recruitment. Average losing margin just under 50. Focus on mids, some slightly more mature players and plugging holes
2019 - development year. Average losing margin halved. Focus on forwards and elite mids will look for mature players and build depth. 2015 draftees start to hit maturity. Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cuningham, Kennedy, Silvagni.
2020 - Competitive year - Focus on filling the gaps mature players early and raw talent late. 2016 draftees start to hit maturity. SPS, Setterfield, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Williamson, Kerr, .
2021 - Push for finals - Focus on an elite players and we fill holes with elite talent. 2017 Draftees begin to mature. Dow, O'Brien, DeKoning, Schumacher.
2022 - peak - Most players in the 23-28 year age gap. 2018 draftees hit maturity. Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, Silvagni. Holes are filled, list is mature and very talented from years of patience and taking the long road. We present a very complete side with very few holes or weaknesses.
I would hope that this 66 game rebuild crap is something that has been spewed out to the fans and not something that is generally believed internally.
Crunch the numbers, we are all getting ahead of ourselves, this is a development year, if you don't like it then complain to the AFL that we haven't been resourced with enough draft picks. You put the priority pick into this equation and remove the two new teams and it takes a year or maybe even two off our rebuild time frame but this is the age we live in, this is Gil's AFL where it takes f***ing forever to build a team from scratch.
On a positive note, when we get to mid table things will mover very very fast. Our most important thing is player retention. I still believe if we keep our staff and our players and just keep adding to this then we will become a really really strong side when the rebuild is complete and the players mature.
I guess there would be a meltdown if the club came out and said it's going to be a 7 year rebuild and we will be down the bottom for most of it. In one way it would have been good to stick it to the AFL and their system but in another way it would have been disastrous for attendances, fan following, membership, recruitment and player retention.
This is not the first 7 year rebuild. Richmond did one. The big difference is where we are coming from is rock bottom and other teams usually start it from around mid table. Plus there are priority picks etc involved in other clubs rebuilds.
It's a harsh reality for us to get our heads around but this is the reality. None of us want to hear we have a couple more years to wait. We all want things to come on quicker but the numbers don't lie.
For what it's worth I wouldn't take too much notice of other developing clubs who are better than us or appear ahead of us like Brisbane or St Kilda. It's all about where we finish up and I am confident that when we finish we are a good chance to finish better. It's a long distance race and we have not sprinted at the start.
Shouldn’t be a surprise but great to see Weiters listed.
Has started 2019 exceptionally well.
I think I read somewhere Melbourne only has 5 players left from their list in 2013.Can't believe it was ever called a 66 game rebuild. Does the rebuild end when we get all the players we want on our list or does it end when those players mature and we start playing good football?
I would go with the latter.
Crunch the numbers...
In 2015 a rebuild will mean we replace all but 3 players. Docherty, Cripps and Jones.
That means that the task is to find 37 players of elite to good quality.
Those players will need to be allowed to mature which happens at around 22-24 years of age.
No priority picks or special compensation. Starting from a low base so not too many players to trade out so we're limited and trading out is going to hurt. No expendable players to trade.
We get 3 good draft picks per season. Without being crafty and getting package deals with our trades that means it would take 12 years to find 37 good players. 6 years to find 22. Plus 3 or 4 years for them to mature.
With aggressive trading and drafting and big list turnovers we can half that to 6 or 7 years. So 3 or 4 to find 22. Plus their development time frame of 3-4 years.
Crunch the numbers people. We are actually on track. No one wants to hear about 6 or 7 year rebuilds but this is the reality of it.
We are 4 years into a 6 or 7 year rebuild where we will be spending most of it down the bottom.
That will only change when we have our full list of players and most of them are in that 22 or 23-28 year old age bracket.
2015 - Rebuild begins, Clean out and heavy recruitment - Focus on talls
2016 - clean out and heavy recruitment - Focus on mids and flankers
2017 - Clean out focus on mids and a Ruck/forward etc
2018 - Rock bottom and heavy recruitment. Average losing margin just under 50. Focus on mids, some slightly more mature players and plugging holes
2019 - development year. Average losing margin halved. Focus on forwards and elite mids will look for mature players and build depth. 2015 draftees start to hit maturity. Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cuningham, Kennedy, Silvagni.
2020 - Competitive year - Focus on filling the gaps mature players early and raw talent late. 2016 draftees start to hit maturity. SPS, Setterfield, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Williamson, Kerr, .
2021 - Push for finals - Focus on an elite players and we fill holes with elite talent. 2017 Draftees begin to mature. Dow, O'Brien, DeKoning, Schumacher.
2022 - peak - Most players in the 23-28 year age gap. 2018 draftees hit maturity. Walsh, Stocker, O'Dwyer, Silvagni. Holes are filled, list is mature and very talented from years of patience and taking the long road. We present a very complete side with very few holes or weaknesses.
I would hope that this 66 game rebuild crap is something that has been spewed out to the fans and not something that is generally believed internally.
Crunch the numbers, we are all getting ahead of ourselves, this is a development year, if you don't like it then complain to the AFL that we haven't been resourced with enough draft picks. You put the priority pick into this equation and remove the two new teams and it takes a year or maybe even two off our rebuild time frame but this is the age we live in, this is Gil's AFL where it takes f***ing forever to build a team from scratch.
On a positive note, when we get to mid table things will mover very very fast. Our most important thing is player retention. I still believe if we keep our staff and our players and just keep adding to this then we will become a really really strong side when the rebuild is complete and the players mature.
I guess there would be a meltdown if the club came out and said it's going to be a 7 year rebuild and we will be down the bottom for most of it. In one way it would have been good to stick it to the AFL and their system but in another way it would have been disastrous for attendances, fan following, membership, recruitment and player retention.
This is not the first 7 year rebuild. Richmond did one. The big difference is where we are coming from is rock bottom and other teams usually start it from around mid table. Plus there are priority picks etc involved in other clubs rebuilds.
It's a harsh reality for us to get our heads around but this is the reality. None of us want to hear we have a couple more years to wait. We all want things to come on quicker but the numbers don't lie.
For what it's worth I wouldn't take too much notice of other developing clubs who are better than us or appear ahead of us like Brisbane or St Kilda. It's all about where we finish up and I am confident that when we finish we are a good chance to finish better. It's a long distance race and we have not sprinted at the start.
It's career best form over 4 weeks. Cripps has actually had better stretches of 4 weeks. So he can't be included.They actually didn’t include Cripps whose 4 game average is off the charts. Immeasurable. 25.1. He’s ranked 1st not Whitfield.
If you understood the ratings you might have a better grasp. While yes, first year player swill generally go up because they're playing off of a base of zero, that isn't the case for everyone. Look at our side this week, where out biggest improvers Cripps, Newman, Weitering, McGovern, Dow and Walsh. Appart from Dow and Walsh, all of those players have played more than 40 games and their large rises are evident in the substantial steps they are taking forward. Additionally, you can look to the likes of Setterfield who is crawling along and see that improvement is needed, or how Plowman has hovered around 300 for the last two years, if he wants to become elite he needs to take a step, it isn't just the case of more games equals more points, it's players taking their game to the next level equals more points on the AFL Ratings system and until such time as more of our players take those steps, our side will continue to build.No s**t the rating is going up, isn't it always going to with players coming off a base of zero? Seems like an odd exercise.
If you understood the ratings you might have a better grasp. While yes, first year player swill generally go up because they're playing off of a base of zero, that isn't the case for everyone. Look at our side this week, where out biggest improvers Cripps, Newman, Weitering, McGovern, Dow and Walsh. Appart from Dow and Walsh, all of those players have played more than 40 games and their large rises are evident in the substantial steps they are taking forward. Additionally, you can look to the likes of Setterfield who is crawling along and see that improvement is needed, or how Plowman has hovered around 300 for the last two years, if he wants to become elite he needs to take a step, it isn't just the case of more games equals more points, it's players taking their game to the next level equals more points on the AFL Ratings system and until such time as more of our players take those steps, our side will continue to build.
You're welcome to not read the thread.Dow seeing a substantial leap after that game says it all...
Cripps and Weitering both feature.
Jones should take Aliir Aliirs spot by year’s end.I wonder how close Walsh is off the wing and jones in the back half.
I think I read somewhere Melbourne only has 5 players left from their list in 2013.
Geelong only have something like 5 best 22 players atm who were on their list in 2015.
Things can change a lot quicker than what we look like we are currently doing. I think we have chosen the safer/easier option of bringing in top end talent. It’ll take longer but if we have done it right we should see the benifits in the future but I don’t think it is as simple as us not having any other options
I agree with most of that except that we shouldn’t expect to see steady improvement. That’s the difference between Melbourne’s failed rebuild and their successful one. They just presumed all their talented kids would come on and they would explode up the ladder. I think SOS and crew see it that way too hence why we went all out for Shiel.The other option would be to break the bank, chase stars and retain everyone who could play. That would be the easy quick fix solution. That doesn't fix the cultural problems and when we get to being a top side we would be limited, stagnate around the middle then bottom out anyway the same as the last rebuild.
SO it's not the only way but it's the best way.
One thing is for sure by going down the long road and being patient, when we mature and we arrive. We will have a really deep talent pool and a lot of quality through the 22 and we will have a side that not only plays finals but should be a realistic premiership chance.
the thing about rebuilding you only really start to rise when you get close to the peak period, it's not a steady increase or steady improvement, you more or less stay the same quality until the jobs is done and then the jump happens, especially when there are a lot of young players involved.
I agree with most of that except that we shouldn’t expect to see steady improvement. That’s the difference between Melbourne’s failed rebuild and their successful one. They just presumed all their talented kids would come on and they would explode up the ladder. I think SOS and crew see it that way too hence why we went all out for Shiel.
Unless we see a huge turnaround in form this season my money would be on us going all out again trying to attract a big name to start to drive improvement in our group.
I don’t think that has anything to do with a lack of patience but It could just be a better way to develop players.