Analysis Play Todd Marshall...

[Marmozet]

 

[ozph1870]

Marshall still didn’t work hard enough last night.

Some of our supporters have lost the plot...

 

[Power Raid]

I'm genuinely interested in what areas specifically he needs to work on according to you?

Getting to the contest and creating an outcome rather than waiting for an outcome

 

[ozph1870]

Getting to the contest and creating an outcome rather than waiting for an outcome

Rewatch the game.

 

[Pappagallo]

This thread pretty much won the game last night.

You’re welcome.

 

[ZingerB]

Rewatch the game.

I actually think Power Aid is right. He is not soft, it is not as though he squibs contests, but he doesn't seem to have a killer instinct. He looks like he is trying to avoid giving away free kicks. He doesn't crash packs from behind. There were also a couple of times last night where a WC player went to the ground and instead of going straight to him, he backed off and allowed the ball to be dished off from the ground. He has a laconic style about him and whilst I don't think he should be expected to part the seas like Dixon who is 20kgs heavier, or run at players like a madman on meth ala Butters, he still needs to impose himself on the game more. At the end of the day he needs to stay in the team simply because we don't have a KPF to replace him with. But if we are going to advance much further we also need someone (it might be unfair to lay it on Marshall, but we need it on someone) to give a better contest in the air. Its unfortunate that he missed 2 very gettable goals because a 10 touch 3 goal game is much better than a 10 touch 1 goal game. That is ultimately the problem, he doesn't get into the game enough. I am genuinely struggling to think of a time where he got 15+ touches. In some ways the injuries to Watts/ Dixon will help, because he just has to play irrespective of his form. But when there are options he is going to have to produce more to stay in. He either has to become a link man ala Tom Lynch and get more of the ball, kick more goals if he is only going to get the pill 10 times, or be a force of nature if the air ala Dixon. 10 touches, 1.2, and bringing the ball to ground a few times isn't going to cut it for him personally or for us beating top sides.

 

[ozph1870]

I actually think Power Aid is right. He is not soft, it is not as though he squibs contests, but he doesn't seem to have a killer instinct. He looks like he is trying to avoid giving away free kicks. He doesn't crash packs from behind. There were also a couple of times last night where a WC player went to the ground and instead of going straight to him, he backed off and allowed the ball to be dished off from the ground. He has a laconic style about him and whilst I don't think he should be expected to part the seas like Dixon who is 20kgs heavier, or run at players like a madman on meth ala Butters, he still needs to impose himself on the game more. At the end of the day he needs to stay in the team simply because we don't have a KPF to replace him with. But if we are going to advance much further we also need someone (it might be unfair to lay it on Marshall, but we need it on someone) to give a better contest in the air. Its unfortunate that he missed 2 very gettable goals because a 10 touch 3 goal game is much better than a 10 touch 1 goal game. That is ultimately the problem, he doesn't get into the game enough. I am genuinely struggling to think of a time where he got 15+ touches. In some ways the injuries to Watts/ Dixon will help, because he just has to play irrespective of his form. But when there are options he is going to have to produce more to stay in. He either has to become a link man ala Tom Lynch and get more of the ball, kick more goals if he is only going to get the pill 10 times, or be a force of nature if the air ala Dixon. 10 touches, 1.2, and bringing the ball to ground a few times isn't going to cut it for him personally or for us beating top sides.

Do people actually realize the weather last night and against Carlton...
The other tall forwards last night had 6 and 7 touches. Ryder went in the ruck so his 13 weren't solely as a forward, and the hoff went up the ground too.
Against Carlton Todd had 7, a quiet one in wet windy conditions. Hoff had 14 Ryder 8 McGovern 6 Mckay 11..
Tall forwards are always going to struggle to have a huge impact on the game in wet windy conditions.
Todd played his role well last night, did exactly what he needed to do and was an important part in our win.. Anyone who says anything else is so wrong.

 

[Chokito]

structure-wise, we need to keep this man playing every damn game.

 

[tribey]

He's doing fine.

He's a 13 game, 20yo KPF. You're massively overestimating what his output should be.

If you can find a few 20yo KPFs with less than 20 games experience who are playing at step above what Marshall is doing, let us know.

Look at Luko atm.

Still yet to kick a goal, minimal touches, drifts out of it for long periods, but the only way he’s not playing a minimum of 20 games this year is injury/suspension.

 

[Shane_Mag]

Must play the rest of the season in the side. May have quiet games in future but last night is a prime example of how better our forward structure is with him in it.

 

[ZingerB]

Do people actually realize the weather last night and against Carlton...
The other tall forwards last night had 6 and 7 touches. Ryder went in the ruck so his 13 weren't solely as a forward, and the hoff went up the ground too.
Against Carlton Todd had 7, a quiet one in wet windy conditions. Hoff had 14 Ryder 8 McGovern 6 Mckay 11..
Tall forwards are always going to struggle to have a huge impact on the game in wet windy conditions.
Todd played his role well last night, did exactly what he needed to do and was an important part in our win.. Anyone who says anything else is so wrong.

People have been bagging Westhoff all year. Ryder is a AA ruck and has been contributing more than disposals/ goals. McGovern/ McKay are s**t. Last night Ryder had 13 touches, 19 hitouts and the same 1.2 Marshall had. Westhoff had 17 touches. The opposition forwards did nothing because they had half as many i50s as us and Clurey/ Howard/ Jonas played like studs. So no, you are wrong. Marshall was ok first game back, but we need more from him.

 

[*PAF]

I actually think Power Aid is right. He is not soft, it is not as though he squibs contests, but he doesn't seem to have a killer instinct. He looks like he is trying to avoid giving away free kicks. He doesn't crash packs from behind. There were also a couple of times last night where a WC player went to the ground and instead of going straight to him, he backed off and allowed the ball to be dished off from the ground. He has a laconic style about him and whilst I don't think he should be expected to part the seas like Dixon who is 20kgs heavier, or run at players like a madman on meth ala Butters, he still needs to impose himself on the game more. At the end of the day he needs to stay in the team simply because we don't have a KPF to replace him with. But if we are going to advance much further we also need someone (it might be unfair to lay it on Marshall, but we need it on someone) to give a better contest in the air. Its unfortunate that he missed 2 very gettable goals because a 10 touch 3 goal game is much better than a 10 touch 1 goal game. That is ultimately the problem, he doesn't get into the game enough. I am genuinely struggling to think of a time where he got 15+ touches. In some ways the injuries to Watts/ Dixon will help, because he just has to play irrespective of his form. But when there are options he is going to have to produce more to stay in. He either has to become a link man ala Tom Lynch and get more of the ball, kick more goals if he is only going to get the pill 10 times, or be a force of nature if the air ala Dixon. 10 touches, 1.2, and bringing the ball to ground a few times isn't going to cut it for him personally or for us beating top sides.

Nothing like comparing apples with guavas.
Lynch now or in his first 3 seasons?

 

[ozph1870]

People have been bagging Westhoff all year. Ryder is a AA ruck and has been contributing more than disposals/ goals. McGovern/ McKay are s**t. Last night Ryder had 13 touches, 19 hitouts and the same 1.2 Marshall had. Westhoff had 17 touches. The opposition forwards did nothing because they had half as many i50s as us and Clurey/ Howard/ Jonas played like studs. So no, you are wrong. Marshall was ok first game back, but we need more from him.

You have no idea. That's OK.

 

[tribey]

I actually think Power Aid is right. He is not soft, it is not as though he squibs contests, but he doesn't seem to have a killer instinct. He looks like he is trying to avoid giving away free kicks. He doesn't crash packs from behind. There were also a couple of times last night where a WC player went to the ground and instead of going straight to him, he backed off and allowed the ball to be dished off from the ground. He has a laconic style about him and whilst I don't think he should be expected to part the seas like Dixon who is 20kgs heavier, or run at players like a madman on meth ala Butters, he still needs to impose himself on the game more. At the end of the day he needs to stay in the team simply because we don't have a KPF to replace him with. But if we are going to advance much further we also need someone (it might be unfair to lay it on Marshall, but we need it on someone) to give a better contest in the air. Its unfortunate that he missed 2 very gettable goals because a 10 touch 3 goal game is much better than a 10 touch 1 goal game. That is ultimately the problem, he doesn't get into the game enough. I am genuinely struggling to think of a time where he got 15+ touches. In some ways the injuries to Watts/ Dixon will help, because he just has to play irrespective of his form. But when there are options he is going to have to produce more to stay in. He either has to become a link man ala Tom Lynch and get more of the ball, kick more goals if he is only going to get the pill 10 times, or be a force of nature if the air ala Dixon. 10 touches, 1.2, and bringing the ball to ground a few times isn't going to cut it for him personally or for us beating top sides.

He also slyly blocked McGovern and Schofield off the ball on numerous occasions allowing others to get off the leash and halved a bunch of contests which gained us territory, chances and prevented the uncontested rebound that killed us against BL and Richmond.

He just needs games. His guile and footy IQ is obvious.

 

[ZingerB]

Nothing like comparing apples with guavas.
Lynch now or in his first 3 seasons?

Lynch couldn't get a game at St Kilda when they were challenging for a flag. Lynch was 22 when he started getting a regular game (had only played 12 games up until then). He kicked 10 goals in a game and averaged 17 touches over the year. If Marshall was doing that I would be more than happy to get on the 'second coming of Jesus' bandwagon as well as the 'if Hinkley drops him again we should burn his house down' bandwagon. As it stands, Marshall is playing ... ok. At 20, ok is fine, but it irritates me the way supporters treat our players differently. If Westhoff put in a Marshall style game, he would get slaughtered. We need a 6'6 guy in there so Marshall should get his chance with no one challenging him at the moment. However, with the exception of the 1st 3 games last year, he is yet to really signal to the world that he is even a consistent AFL std player and the idea that a 10 touch, 1 goal game should guarantee a player a spot for the rest of the season like many people on here are saying it should is frankly absurd.

 

[JAlexG]

Lynch couldn't get a game at St Kilda when they were challenging for a flag. Lynch was 22 when he started getting a regular game (had only played 12 games up until then). He kicked 10 goals in a game and averaged 17 touches over the year. If Marshall was doing that I would be more than happy to get on the 'second coming of Jesus' bandwagon as well as the 'if Hinkley drops him again we should burn his house down' bandwagon. As it stands, Marshall is playing ... ok. At 20, ok is fine, but it irritates me the way supporters treat our players differently. If Westhoff put in a Marshall style game, he would get slaughtered. We need a 6'6 guy in there so Marshall should get his chance with no one challenging him at the moment. However, with the exception of the 1st 3 games last year, he is yet to really signal to the world that he is even a consistent AFL std player and the idea that a 10 touch, 1 goal game should guarantee a player a spot for the rest of the season like many people on here are saying it should is frankly absurd.

Surely, you do realise his importance to the sides balance and structure, not just derping that he doesn't get 50 touches and kick 10 a week.

 

[philthy05]

those marks he is nearly taking every game will start sticking when his opponents don’t have 100+ games and 10+ kgs on him


When those marks start sticking he will be nearly unstoppable

There isn’t a kpp as clean below the knees as him, and sharp with the ball by hand or feet, with his vision, with his speed of mind, with his quickness

He clunks marks its over. And he is already getting his hands on them. A few more kgs and he takes those

The work rate to present will come as well. Still a baby and still building a tank. He’s missed lots of games and training because of personal tragedy.

The two biggest issues are the easiest things we will ever have the chance to work on in a key forward

That size will come, and I believe that workrate and repeated leads will come with a bigger tank.

 

[ZingerB]

He also slyly blocked McGovern and Schofield off the ball on numerous occasions allowing others to get off the leash and halved a bunch of contests which gained us territory, chances and prevented the uncontested rebound that killed us against BL and Richmond.

He just needs games. His guile and footy IQ is obvious.

I don't disagree that he does some really smart things and he is clearly going to string a few games together here. I just don't accept how bullish some of the comments here are about him and we should play him irrespective of how well he is playing. If he is the best 2 KPFs available at selection, he plays. If he is not, he doesn't. That shouldn't be a controversial statement.

 

[ZingerB]

Surely, you do realise his importance to the sides balance and structure, not just derping that he doesn't get 50 touches and kick 10 a week.

I do which is why I have mentioned repeatedly that he has to stay in merely because there is no one else to cover the position at the moment. The second Dixon is fit, or someone like Frampton has a couple good sanfl games, the selectors should rightly look at his form, and to date, I don't think it would hold up to any serious competition.

 

[*PAF]

Lynch couldn't get a game at St Kilda when they were challenging for a flag. Lynch was 22 when he started getting a regular game (had only played 12 games up until then). He kicked 10 goals in a game and averaged 17 touches over the year. If Marshall was doing that I would be more than happy to get on the 'second coming of Jesus' bandwagon as well as the 'if Hinkley drops him again we should burn his house down' bandwagon. As it stands, Marshall is playing ... ok. At 20, ok is fine, but it irritates me the way supporters treat our players differently. If Westhoff put in a Marshall style game, he would get slaughtered. We need a 6'6 guy in there so Marshall should get his chance with no one challenging him at the moment. However, with the exception of the 1st 3 games last year, he is yet to really signal to the world that he is even a consistent AFL std player and the idea that a 10 touch, 1 goal game should guarantee a player a spot for the rest of the season like many people on here are saying it should is frankly absurd.

Is that an attempt at explaining why apples should be compared to guavas?

Fwiw just incase I get quoted out of context imo Marshall has done ok. He has pretty well done much the same as our other kpfs apart from the one off Westy's game. If he doesn't then he will be sent back but he should be replaced with a tall.

Being the second coming or a disappointment are both way off the mark.

 

[ZingerB]

Is that an attempt at explaining why apples should be compared to guavas?

Fwiw just incase I get quoted out of context imo Marshall has done ok. He has pretty well done much the same as our other kpfs apart from the one off Westy's game. If he doesn't then he will be sent back but he should be replaced with a tall.

Being the second coming or a disappointment are both way off the mark.

Pretty much every second comment here is people trying to say we won last night because of Todd Marshall or trying to link how many games we have won this year with him in the team when he has been average. We spanked them through the middle and even if we had lined up with Jake ******* Neade at FF we would have won last night. I am not an idiot, I realise we can't expect him to kick 50 goals this year. I still think we can hold him to AFL standards though and he would be barely scraping by atm. A 10 possession 1 goal game wouldn't keep you in a decent team for very long. He might need time to develop but that doesn't mean he gets gifted games just because he is 20. I am a bit sick of people running their vendettas all over this board, like a politician. Those guys mistakes are worse than ours because reasons. We did something right for a change so that makes us the greatest. One thing that can be said with certainty, if Sam Gray played a few 10 touch 1 goal games his pressure acts wouldn't stop posters from wanting him shot out of a cannon into the sun. I think I have been crystal clear in stating Marshall has to stay in the team for the foreseeable future, but as far as some of the people crowing that they were right because he had a bog average game or that he should play the rest of the season based upon last night, nah.

 

[raman]

Look at Luko atm.

Still yet to kick a goal, minimal touches, drifts out of it for long periods, but the only way he’s not playing a minimum of 20 games this year is injury/suspension.

It's as if he's considered important or something.

 

[tribey]

and even if we had lined up with Jake ******* Neade at FF we would have won last night

 

[raman]

JFC

 

[*PAF]

Pretty much every second comment here is people trying to say we won last night because of Todd Marshall or trying to link how many games we have won this year with him in the team when he has been average. We spanked them through the middle and even if we had lined up with Jake ******* Neade at FF we would have won last night. I am not an idiot, I realise we can't expect him to kick 50 goals this year. I still think we can hold him to AFL standards though and he would be barely scraping by atm. A 10 possession 1 goal game wouldn't keep you in a decent team for very long. He might need time to develop but that doesn't mean he gets gifted games just because he is 20. I am a bit sick of people running their vendettas all over this board, like a politician. Those guys mistakes are worse than ours because reasons. We did something right for a change so that makes us the greatest. One thing that can be said with certainty, if Sam Gray played a few 10 touch 1 goal games his pressure acts wouldn't stop posters from wanting him shot out of a cannon into the sun. I think I have been crystal clear in stating Marshall has to stay in the team for the foreseeable future, but as far as some of the people crowing that they were right because he had a bog average game or that he should play the rest of the season based upon last night, nah.

Perhaps you and I have been reading the posts through different glasses.
The way I have read the so called pro Marshall posts has more to do with us having an extra tall up front than about Marshall himself.