Observations on internal issues?

[Dirty_11]

Spoke to a former 90s players about the club and he isn't very happy with the club at all.

I quote from him:

"I’m not sad, they need to recruit better...last time I was at Arden st it didn’t feel like a club it felt more like a business a company that forgot about the people."

What an absolute shame. Called the list B graders and the coach needs to go. Been there too long.

Nothing positive about the Club at all lately. Serious issues. Put on the PPE Shinboners, we will be crawling through s**t for a while.


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[D23D]

An idea over morning coffee; would someone like Ricky Ponting (or similarly successful sportsmen/coach/manager) be capable of leading a team to review the club or do we feel you'd need someone from The World of Aussie Rules?

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

If Ricky has led a review that proved successful before then I’d say yes. Even if it was for cricket. I wouldn’t want a charismatic ‘first timer’ doing it though.

 

[King Corey]

last time I was at Arden st it didn’t feel like a club it felt more like a business a company that forgot about the people.

Have heard this a bit over the last few years. Figured where I was hearing it from was missing something because that wasn't the outwardly projected image but interesting this sentiment is coming out more and more from multiple sources.

 

[scooby1279]

Have heard this a bit over the last few years. Figured where I was hearing it from was missing something because that wasn't the outwardly projected image but interesting this sentiment is coming out more and more from multiple sources.

It is was lead for mr shinboner to storm the club and ask WTF is happening.

 

[King Corey]

It is was lead for mr shinboner to storm the club and ask WTF is happening.

And then sail out on a ship named "Business Interests"?

 

[giantroo]

 

[Themanbun]

An idea over morning coffee; would someone like Ricky Ponting (or similarly successful sportsmen/coach/manager) be capable of leading a team to review the club or do we feel you'd need someone from The World of Aussie Rules?

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ricky Ponting would be one of the best in the world at doing so, IMO. He was renowned for expecting high standards and a hunger to win.

 

[Themanbun]

Spoke to a former 90s player about the club and he isn't very happy with the club at all.

I quote from him:

"I’m not sad, they need to recruit better...last time I was at Arden st it didn’t feel like a club it felt more like a business a company that forgot about the people."

What an absolute shame. Called the list B graders and the coach needs to go. Been there too long.

Seen it happen to quite a few organisations in my relatively short life so far.

Once you start bringing in people en masse (usually happens once a company gets to a certain size or acquires a large amount of resources) who are careerist in ambition above all, with no direct attachment to the product [I don't like referring to our club as a 'product', but I guess it's fitting now?], then the once 'vibey' club, association, not-for-profit, etc. loses its soul, so to speak.

Retaining a place's soul can also be used as an excuse to create an impenetrable boys club, too, so it's a fine line.

Has there been a shift in direction towards this more corporate mentality from the Board over the last 10-20 years? IMO, probably yes. In our bid to make us financially solvent, it sounds like we've shifted in that direction and have been completely unprepared for the swathe of careerists that come swarming once you make that move.

 

[The Anvil]

I wonder if the coffee cart is the distraction that the club didn't need.

It certainly is a great coffee cart, got a mocha where the chocolate was added prior to the milk rather than on top (like an afterthought). If the Roos played like they make coffee we'd be winning the premiership this season!

 

[Snake_Baker]

Seen it happen to quite a few organisations in my relatively short life so far.

Once you start bringing in people en masse (usually happens once a company gets to a certain size or acquires a large amount of resources) who are careerist in ambition above all, with no direct attachment to the product [I don't like referring to our club as a 'product', but I guess it's fitting now?], then the once 'vibey' club, association, not-for-profit, etc. loses its soul, so to speak.

Retaining a place's soul can also be used as an excuse to create an impenetrable boys club, too, so it's a fine line.

Has there been a shift in direction towards this more corporate mentality from the Board over the last 10-20 years? IMO, probably yes. In our bid to make us financially solvent, it sounds like we've shifted in that direction and have been completely unprepared for the swathe of careerists that come swarming once you make that move.

Any entity that completely ignores the culture that is embraced by its shareholders, is ultimately doomed to fail, regardless of it's business acumen.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

An idea over morning coffee; would someone like Ricky Ponting (or similarly successful sportsmen/coach/manager) be capable of leading a team to review the club or do we feel you'd need someone from The World of Aussie Rules?

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think, while nice in theory, any review needs to be completely independent and carried out by people with no ties to the club at all.

 

[see see]

I think, while nice in theory, any review needs to be completely independent and carried out by people with no ties to the club at all.

Yep. Needs to be done without any emotion or perceived bias/pre-judgement.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yep. Needs to be done without any emotion or perceived bias/pre-judgement.

By FOOTBALL people!

 

[Engimal v3]

An idea over morning coffee; would someone like Ricky Ponting (or similarly successful sportsmen/coach/manager) be capable of leading a team to review the club or do we feel you'd need someone from The World of Aussie Rules?

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I have no doubt that Ponting loves the club, but he's grossly under-qualified for such a task.

 

[Nate7]

I think, while nice in theory, any review needs to be completely independent and carried out by people with no ties to the club at all.

If an independent group were sought out to conduct a review, then I hope it isnt restricted by terms of reference.
Not only that, I'd also hope NMFC doesn't ask for adjustments to any reports after seeing an initial review.

 

[King Corey]

Would love to see a review conducted by Pagan.

Football acumen - tick
Corporate management experience - tick
Currently working in the 'real world' - tick

Make it happen Beneuge.

 

[ferball]

Ricky Ponting would be one of the best in the world at doing so, IMO. He was renowned for expecting high standards and a hunger to win.

But is he independent enough? Also what D23D mentioned about "charismatic first timers" is something on my mind as well.

But in terms of standards and desire Ponting is right up there.

 

[Themanbun]

But is he independent enough? Also what D23D mentioned about "charismatic first timers" is something on my mind as well.

But in terms of standards and desire Ponting is right up there.

Independent? Probably not. But I don't doubt his integrity, which is the main reason why we want someone detached from the Club.

 

[ferball]

Would love to see a review conducted by Pagan.

Football acumen - tick
Corporate management experience - tick
Currently working in the 'real world' - tick

Make it happen Beneuge.

I agree to a point but independence is the issue there again.

Although it worked with Balme for Richmond. But he'd been at other clubs beforehand (and actually brought them success too.) We're all on the review bandwagon atm but most of those successful reviews were done by him.

In Pagan's favour he set high standards on field and demanded alot from his players. That's the sort of thing we need.

 

[King Corey]

I agree to a point but independence is the issue there again.

Although it worked with Balme for Richmond. But he'd been at other clubs beforehand (and actually brought them success too.) We're all on the review bandwagon atm but most of those successful reviews were done by him.

In Pagan's favour he set high standards on field and demanded alot from his players. That's the sort of thing we need.

True independence or objectivity is seen as unachievable in some philosophies when accounting for all the preconceptions and baggage people bring to the table. What's more I think you need a degree of interest and passion to get a thorough meaningful review done especially of a football club which should operate with intangibles over and above a standard business.

As long as Denis didn't think steer towards writing his own resume in the process - and this is a risk for a very self-assured capable person - he would bring a hard and intelligent mindset and be using it in an environment (football not North Melbourne per se) with which he's very familiar.

 

[ferball]

True independence or objectivity is seen as unachievable in some philosophies when accounting for all the preconceptions and baggage people bring to the table. What's more I think you need a degree of interest and passion to get a thorough meaningful review done especially of a football club which should operate with intangibles over and above a standard business.

As long as Denis didn't think steer towards writing his own resume in the process - and this is a risk for a very self-assured capable person - he would bring a hard and intelligent mindset and be using it in an environment (football not North Melbourne per se) with which he's very familiar.

Fair enough. Also Denis is getting on a bit. He doesn't need a resume padded out. He's had a successful life and helping get a big part of it back on track for the future might be something he considers a worthwhile legacy.

I actually agree about independence. Its a relative thing. I guess I want someone who is independent of any of the self interest around the club and is capable of looking at the processes "indpependently' and assessing them on their merits as to how they work for a footy team. TBH this board could probably do that as well. But Pagan is someone I'd trust to b able to pull that off. (If he's not losing it with age.)

 

[King Corey]

Fair enough. Also Denis is getting on a bit. He doesn't need a resume padded out. He's had a successful life and helping get a big part of it back on track for the future might be something he considers a worthwhile legacy.

I actually agree about independence. Its a relative thing. I guess I want someone who is independent of any of the self interest around the club and is capable of looking at the processes "indpependently' and assessing them on their merits as to how they work for a footy team. TBH this board could probably do that as well. But Pagan is someone I'd trust to b able to pull that off. (If he's not losing it with age.)

I'm convinced people like Denis will always see themselves as winners so he would still think he could be the best available coach if he was 100. For that reason almost alone I'd be wary of his ability to focus on the task.

Not bothered by age, he's compos and experienced though would need to be able to differentiate between what has changed around the club as a consequence of 'changing times' and what is a sign of bad approach and process.

 

[Passmore]

Would love to see a review conducted by Pagan.

Football acumen - tick
Corporate management experience - tick
Currently working in the 'real world' - tick

Make it happen Beneuge.

I suspect Denis would be a little too brutal for any incumbents to handle.

The vast majority would be in the foetal position within 10 minutes.


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[Caracas]

Spoke to a former 90s player about the club and he isn't very happy with the club at all.

I quote from him:

"I’m not sad, they need to recruit better...last time I was at Arden st it didn’t feel like a club it felt more like a business a company that forgot about the people."

What an absolute shame. Called the list B graders and the coach needs to go. Been there too long.

But isn’t that first comment just the self same comment that people make about the AFL/Sport, even life in general? The second comment is more to the point. However, North has been accused of that since 2001. In fact, Carey/McKernan aside, we’ve always has that struggling, blue-collar look about us. I mean, the whole Shinboner moniker screams struggling B-Graders never giving up. That’s what a lot of us love about the club - speaking for myself there, I know. We shouldn’t lose sight of the gains that have been made since 2007. It’s been a crap start to the year, granted. However, imagine if we’d given up at 0-3 in 2007 - we’d be on the Gold Coast now.

 

[koshari]

The sad thing is caracas, i actually dont think we have given up. Sadly this just seems to be as good as it gets atm. Were sitting stone motherless last and even the most cynical of cynics would be suggesting that we are tanking.