2nds Port Adelaide vs Centrals - Round 6 @ Alberton

[Janus]

I’m not criticising Lycett, I’m asking why our list managers FAed in a mature ruck right after spending draft picks and development on rucks.

Any on field edge we get from adding an instant Slyce probably only applies for the next two years, during which time we’re what?

Kinda like adding Rockliff a year after drafting contested mids in Atley/Drew/Spp. Why.

Rockliff and Lycett were FA acquisitions designed to use up salary cap space so we didn't have to over pay players to meet the salary cap floor and therefore completely distort our player payment schedule. We also have banked space that we can use from previous years.

Without them, you've got to distribute $600-$800k to players who didn't deserve a pay increase above what star players like Boak and Robbie Gray were getting at the time.

So it was more of a case of 'we need to spend this money on someone, and Polec and Wingard sure as s**t don't deserve it' than any sort of strategic plan from a football sense. Though I guess you could say that Lycett and Rockliff can show the rucks and the mids how hard we want them to work at training. Notice how Ladhams and Frampton have gotten considerably better with the addition of Lycett? That's because they can see that it's not about being athletically talented like Ryder, but about your want and desire. And I'd say Drew would be learning off of Rocky the same way.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

I’m not criticising Lycett, I’m asking why our list managers FAed in a mature ruck right after spending draft picks and development on rucks.

Any on field edge we get from adding an instant Slyce probably only applies for the next two years, during which time we’re what?

Kinda like adding Rockliff a year after drafting contested mids in Atley/Drew/Spp. Why.

Yes, neither cost us anything in trade, but we keep creating development speed humps like this. Its weird.

Lycett is 26, say he plays till 31 Ladhams will be 26 billy 27, Hayes 24, to be honest it seems like brilliant list management.. although all 3 have shown potential neither are ready for AFL #1 ruck spot. If they are good enough to play AFL they will. Cream always rises

 

[It Just Is]

Between Ladhams, Frampton and Hayes, it feels like getting Lycett on a long contract for $$$ was dubious, even if for free via free agency

Disagree. Ryder is 31 and can’t carry the load on his own for a full season. Lycett is filling a hole this year and is going to be important for at least the next few as Ladhams/Hayes come through.

We were/are desperate for Lycett.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

Because Ryder was coming of an injury interrupted year, a year where not having a back up ruck hurt us dearly. Ladhams was miles of the form he is in now, Hayes is a promising first year player with an ACL injury and Frampton looks more a KPF than Ruck.

An AFL ready ruck was by far our biggest hole in the list.

But its not a long term hole, its one we’d been recruiting to fill, with suitable players due to come into play this year or next (or in Frampton’s case, earlier)

The only case I could make for Lycett urgency would be if list management legit thought we were top 4 premiership contenders in 2019, despite last season.

 

[ozph1870]

We can’t play Three rucks though. Would have to be through injury. Would love to see him rewarded of course.

We got smashed in the rucks this week...

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

Rockliff and Lycett were FA acquisitions designed to use up salary cap space so we didn't have to over pay players to meet the salary cap floor and therefore completely distort our player payment schedule. We also have banked space that we can use from previous years.

Without them, you've got to distribute $600-$800k to players who didn't deserve a pay increase above what star players like Boak and Robbie Gray were getting at the time.

So it was more of a case of 'we need to spend this money on someone, and Polec and Wingard sure as **** don't deserve it' than any sort of strategic plan from a football sense. Though I guess you could say that Lycett and Rockliff can show the rucks and the mids how hard we want them to work at training. Notice how Ladhams and Frampton have gotten considerably better with the addition of Lycett? That's because they can see that it's not about being athletically talented like Ryder, but about your want and desire. And I'd say Drew would be learning off of Rocky the same way.

Good answer. Thanks.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I’m not criticising Lycett, I’m asking why our list managers FAed in a mature ruck right after spending draft picks and development on rucks.

Any on field edge we get from adding an instant Slyce probably only applies for the next two years, during which time we’re what?

Kinda like adding Rockliff a year after drafting contested mids in Atley/Drew/Spp. Why.

Yes, neither cost us anything in trade, but we keep creating development speed humps like this. Its weird.

Look at the age profile of our rucks. Lycett was the right age.

Ryder born 1988
Lycett born 1992
Frampton.. 1996
Ladhams... 1998 Jan
Hayes....... 1999 Jun

We were chasing Lycett for years. 2018 proved how stuffed our strategy/management was, with not having a ready made replacement for Ryder.

Hayes fell in our lap at the 2017 draft, Parker said we didn't intend to draft a ruckman as he thought we had enough, yet at start of 2018 Ken said Frampton, 4th year on the list, Ladhams 2nd and Hayes 1st weren't ready yet to play AFL. But we gave Hayes a 2 year extended contract on his original 2 years at end of April then 4 or 5 weeks later he does his ACL.

If Hayes didn't do his ACL and Frampton's contracted ended in 2018 not 2019, we would have cut one of Frampton or Ladhams IMO. But being forced to play Ladhams and Frampton because Hayes was injured we have probably found another AFL ruckman and probably another tall forward who can do a bit of rucking.

Hayes wont be ready to play AFL until 2020 or 2021, when Paddy probably is ready to hang up the boots. Lycett and Hayes/Ladhams in 2021 is the right sort of mix we need.

Anyway a lot better problem to have than the s**t of 2014, 2016 and 2018 with lack of decent back ups and Lobbe's deterioration down a vast chasm and 2016-17 meant our CHB had to ruck. I'd rather have the potential above mentioned problem and having to trade away a ruckman in 2021 or 2022, than the crap of the last few years.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

My main concern is *ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett

 

[Janus]

My main concern is ******ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett

Well, when one of them beats 31 year old Ryder and just ok Lycett at training consistently, they will be ready. Call me crazy, but to me, that's how you develop a strong list - by introducing competition for spots.

The problem occurs when those players are performing better and the coach still picks his safe word players.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

The problem occurs when those players are performing better and the coach still picks his safe word players.

Yes.

I need a coach axing to Eternal Sunshine the Neade farewell game from my memory

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

My main concern is ******ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett

Hayes wont have lack of opportunity in 2019, he wont be ready. Frampton is a pinch hitter at AFL level. Lets give him a go as a forward whilst Dixon is still out.

Ladhams has had a great 2 weeks and a very good month. Another month of playing great footy at SANFL isn't going to stop his development. As ozph1870 said, his improvement has come when he gets to ruck 75% of the game. He isn't ready to do that at AFL level yet. I don't see it as a great concern for 2019. Lets see what happens over the rest of 2019, to set up the right strategy for 2020 and 2021 to transition Paddy out.

Having Brogan working part time and concentrating just the on rucks, I reckon will help handle the situation effectively.

 

[Jakksynn]

Yep I’m happy to give Ladhams some time in the SANFL to really hone his craft. When we inevitably rest Paddy this year you’d think he’d be first cab off the rank as long as he keeps going as he is. Frampton though.....he’s done his waiting. It’s time.

 

[PJ Power]

I think we might have to wait and see when those three play repeated games in the AFL before making such bold statements.
Lycett has been bloody good apart from. a bit of a down game yesterday.

He wasn’t great against Goldstein tbh.

 

[RossFC]

He's been very impressive for a month if not longer Ladhams.

Ladhams was one of our best SANFL players in pre-season too.

 

[Ishikawa]

We got smashed in the rucks this week...

Grundy won the battle, but

35 HO at circa 20%

vs

25 HO with 40% to advantage
and
14 HO at circa 15%

I can't find the exact HO to advantage stat online but definitely recall seeing in the paper Ryder was at 40% with both Lycett and Grundy at fairly standard % to advantage.
Claiming it was a smashing is a very long bow to draw.

I'd like to see Ladhams get a game to reward excellent form and to see what he's capable of too, but the only way it can be feasibly done right now is through an injury. Ryder at FF is a better concept than it is in reality.

 

[Forzaport]

Between Ladhams, Frampton and Hayes, it feels like getting Lycett on a long contract for $$$ was dubious, even if for free via free agency

At the time we signed Lycett I felt we didn't really have a choice. Ryder spent most of 2018 on one leg, Dixon was run ragged, Frampton was more of a KPF than a ruck and Ladhams was almost on the scrap heap. Fast forward to today and I'm not sure anyone could have predicted Ladhams would turn it on the way he has (except maybe Coobk001).

I think another reason why we pulled the trigger on Lycett is that we went into 2018 with Ryder and a bunch of development juniors and it was a bit of a disaster. Maybe if one of Ladhams or Frampton had showed something more our need for Lycett would have been less and we could have focused our salary cap spend elsewhere.

 

[OneGreatClub]

At the time we signed Lycett I felt we didn't really have a choice. Ryder spent most of 2018 on one leg, Dixon was run ragged, Frampton was more of a KPF than a ruck and Ladhams was almost on the scrap heap. Fast forward to today and I'm not sure anyone could have predicted Ladhams would turn it on the way he has (except maybe Coobk001).

I think another reason why we pulled the trigger on Lycett is that we went into 2018 with Ryder and a bunch of development juniors and it was a bit of a disaster. Maybe if one of Ladhams or Frampton had showed something more our need for Lycett would have been less and we could have focused our salary cap spend elsewhere.

Exactly, and hindsight is truly a wonderful thing.

 

[Coobk001]

. Fast forward to today and I'm not sure anyone could have predicted Ladhams would turn it on the way he has (except maybe Coobk001).

I definitely felt he was our 2nd best future option behind Hayes, and thought he had the potential to be AFL calibre if he started sticking his marks, as his end to last year was 1st class.

But no one could've predicted the sheer numbers Ladhams is picking up. He still isn't totally dominant in the actual ruck contest against the best SANFL rucks, but he is generally winning or breaking even at worst and then dominating in every aspect. In reality his figures are beyond phenomenal and he should be every bit a Magarey Medal contender.

 

[PJ Power]

I definitely felt he was our 2nd best future option behind Hayes, and thought he had the potential to be AFL calibre if he started sticking his marks, as his end to last year was 1st class.

But no one could've predicted the sheer numbers Ladhams is picking up. He still isn't totally dominant in the actual ruck contest against the best SANFL rucks, but he is generally winning or breaking even at worst and then dominating in every aspect. In reality his figures are beyond phenomenal and he should be every bit a Magarey Medal contender.

He clearly gives you another prolific midfielder option, much the way that Primus did, and Gawn and Grundy now do. To think that Hayes is the same type of ruckman, and that both have good skills as forwards also is mouthwatering.

The bigger questions at the moment, are what should it take other than injury for Ladhams to break into the AFL team, and can Frampton become a two goal per game AFL forward?

If the latter is a “Yes”, then playing Marshall, Frampton, Hayes and Ladhams in the same well-performing AFL team actually becomes a possibility.

 

[RossFC]

Between Ladhams, Frampton and Hayes, it feels like getting Lycett on a long contract for $$$ was dubious, even if for free via free agency

Nah it's great. We've finally got some ruck depth. Lycett, Ryder, Ladhams, Hayes is a good quartet.

 

[Magus]

Nah it's great. We've finally got some ruck depth. Lycett, Ryder, Ladhams, Hayes is a good quartet.

Yep. Never anything wrong with having good ruck depth, we're just not used to it.

 

[rogerjames]

Farrell should of been in last night, this is the thing Ken does, never creative or anticipating with selection, always goes to **** then brings in S Gray.

He needs to make 3-4 changes for the showdown to refresh the side, send a message to underperforming players and reward good sanfl form to give players incentive to perform.

We all know this won't happen though.

 

[PowerLil]

I will be furious if Ken drops Marshall for Frampton.

Absolutely. That's classic Hinkley though. When Billy gets the best defender without any other tall support and gets monstered, he can smile at the presser and have the smug I told ya look on his face.

 

[ozph1870]

Grundy won the battle, but

35 HO at circa 20%

vs

25 HO with 40% to advantage
and
14 HO at circa 15%

I can't find the exact HO to advantage stat online but definitely recall seeing in the paper Ryder was at 40% with both Lycett and Grundy at fairly standard % to advantage.
Claiming it was a smashing is a very long bow to draw.

I'd like to see Ladhams get a game to reward excellent form and to see what he's capable of too, but the only way it can be feasibly done right now is through an injury. Ryder at FF is a better concept than it is in reality.

Well our midfield got totally destroyed. Don't care what stays say, the reality is we were destroyed in the midfield.
I am also aware grundy is the best going around now...

 

[Grave Danger]

Crows need a ruckman more than they need Carlton's first draft pick...