Strategy While we’ve been tearing our hair out - has Don completely changed the gameplan?

Tex200

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Good OP and good responses. A definite change in defensive structure. Our high press - "Walsh's Wall", a feature of our game - is not happening anymore when we have the ball locked in our forward 50. We're operating a much more traditional defensive zone in these instances. This is resulting in way fewer goals "out the back". We also have mids - namely Matt Crouch and Sloane - pushing very deep in the back 50 to get ground balls, which is out of the ordinary for us. It's actually a very West Coast thing to do - Gaff and Shuey get a lot of D50 ball.

I think it changed in the week after the Cats game. The Hawks and Cats opened us up out the back with ball movement. We saw the change during the Kangaroos game - a more patient build up - it was just executed very, very poorly. "Chip around" was overused and we turned it over. We still turn it over - see Knight and Hartigan's miss kicks - but we aren't conceding goals out the back almost at all. I can't think of one in the last month, whereas there were numerous in the first 3 weeks.

We seem to have found some sort of balance.
Great analysis thanks.

Interestingly on your pick up on Crouch/Sloane, Crouch had 75% possessions in defensive half and Sloane almost 70%, so that observation is spot on.
 
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Great analysis thanks.

Interestingly on your pick up on Crouch/Sloane, Crouch had 75% possessions in defensive half and Sloane almost 70%, so that observation is spot on.

Wasn't aware of the stats, but it's been noticable in the last month. Adding CEY and Greenwood to the mix has allowed it to happen. Has it hampered our outside run? You'd have to say yes, and it's still why we will struggle against the best away from home, but it's holding at the moment.

Port and Brisbane are excellent tests. Two quick sides with burst, but who are also vulnerable against good inside-heavy teams.
 

Grenville

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The tactics I think are extra numbers around the ball and more inside mids
I’ve been contemplating the same with regard to our defensive zone. I think we are sitting deeper and are working much harder in rolling the zone back similar to Geelong and Freo.

Agree on both of these, and think they fit together - our midfield is pretty deep now with Greenwood and Ellis-Yolman, both Crouches and Sloane (Gibbs in theory but something wrong there), and some capable cameos (Milera back in will help further here. I thought he looked promising in the early rounds when he went into the middle). I think that depth is helping mids roll back further & the back 6 sit back further as been mentioned.
 

Tex200

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Agree on both of these, and think they fit together - our midfield is pretty deep now with Greenwood and Ellis-Yolman, both Crouches and Sloane (Gibbs in theory but something wrong there), and some capable cameos (Milera back in will help further here. I thought he looked promising in the early rounds when he went into the middle). I think that depth is helping mids roll back further & the back 6 sit back further as been mentioned.
So, statistically speaking, CEY and Greenwood are splitting possession 50/50 with offensive/defensive half.

B Crouch under 40% in defensive half, so he’s pushing forward.
 
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If you listen to Pyke, he's always been about the territory game. From memory, when he first got here he tried to instill a bit more defensive mindset but it didn't really gel, so he loosened those reins a bit. So I think its more a product of his tenure and the players becoming more attuned to it. I do think he has set us a bit deeper defensively but I think thats personnel driven. Our mids aren't great defensive runners, so I think he's set our defensive structure to offset that. I do think we are playing closer to his philosophy lately than in previous years.
 

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A few observations:
Our midfield is doing way better than early days, especially at clearances, especially from the center. I have no idea how or why, but thank god, that makes it so much easier.

Our defense is something I constantly watch as I think it has been our weakest link. I think Brodie Smith said in an interview its a lot of small changes. That's what I see too. He said for instance they were standing too far off their man in defense, so they closed that gap up a little. There's no way I can tell, but I take his word. Another thing has obviously been Pyke on the bench and then obvious changes in game style within the game. I think teams must be evolving game plans within the game and we have to evolve counter measures. Have a look at that second quarter against saints, we were really into switching it. Then in the third and fourth it was back to normal. I think that is the coaches identifying the other teams tricks and us having a system to get it counteracted quick. We talked in the preseason about doing a better job of guarding the whole ground, which translated means not letting teams get people free out the far side and setting up a switch and then a chain down the ground from there. We did it well in the pre season, then was really poor in those early games and now we're not bad at it again. We don't seem to be doing anything different in numbers and positioning around the stoppages, we still often leave people unguarded off the back but I think we've got better at the clearances, so they become less effective and by leaving an extra deep or others numbers back towards the backline, someone can come up out the backline to meet those on the switch while others shuffle on to people in the backline and we dont give them easy entries. I spoke a few rounds ago about not just getting turnovers but the quality of the turnover and we are getting good turnovers now, so whatever we did it seems to be working. From there we have been moving it a bit quicker into attack which has helped the forwards. If they chuck an extra number back we have been manning them up at times too. I think both teams on the weekend got insane amounts of turnovers, I think it was mid 80's each, most times teams are in the 70's to 50's, a testament to both teams defensive abilities.

I don't think our offense is too bad either. I like it how it is, less massive scores, but also much better defensively. That said, if we keep going with the really good defense I reckon we'll encounter a team that crumbles under it soon and lets the flood gates open up scoring wise from turnovers. It seems to me we were not too bothered about peaking early and are only just starting to get going now.
 
If you listen to Pyke, he's always been about the territory game. From memory, when he first got here he tried to instill a bit more defensive mindset but it didn't really gel, so he loosened those reins a bit. So I think its more a product of his tenure and the players becoming more attuned to it. I do think he has set us a bit deeper defensively but I think thats personnel driven. Our mids aren't great defensive runners, so I think he's set our defensive structure to offset that. I do think we are playing closer to his philosophy lately than in previous years.

Yeah, we do seem to be playing a more accountable, gritty style of football.

We've managed to wear down sides and capitalise on the pressure dropping off. Smith in particular seems to be getting off the leash in the second halves of games.

Our goalkicking looks to be our biggest problem at the moment. Decent sides will punish us.
 

70lethal

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A few observations:
Our midfield is doing way better than early days, especially at clearances, especially from the center. I have no idea how or why, but thank god, that makes it so much easier.

Our defense is something I constantly watch as I think it has been our weakest link. I think Brodie Smith said in an interview its a lot of small changes. That's what I see too. He said for instance they were standing too far off their man in defense, so they closed that gap up a little. There's no way I can tell, but I take his word. Another thing has obviously been Pyke on the bench and then obvious changes in game style within the game. I think teams must be evolving game plans within the game and we have to evolve counter measures. Have a look at that second quarter against saints, we were really into switching it. Then in the third and fourth it was back to normal. I think that is the coaches identifying the other teams tricks and us having a system to get it counteracted quick. We talked in the preseason about doing a better job of guarding the whole ground, which translated means not letting teams get people free out the far side and setting up a switch and then a chain down the ground from there. We did it well in the pre season, then was really poor in those early games and now we're not bad at it again. We don't seem to be doing anything different in numbers and positioning around the stoppages, we still often leave people unguarded off the back but I think we've got better at the clearances, so they become less effective and by leaving an extra deep or others numbers back towards the backline, someone can come up out the backline to meet those on the switch while others shuffle on to people in the backline and we dont give them easy entries. I spoke a few rounds ago about not just getting turnovers but the quality of the turnover and we are getting good turnovers now, so whatever we did it seems to be working. From there we have been moving it a bit quicker into attack which has helped the forwards. If they chuck an extra number back we have been manning them up at times too. I think both teams on the weekend got insane amounts of turnovers, I think it was mid 80's each, most times teams are in the 70's to 50's, a testament to both teams defensive abilities.

I don't think our offense is too bad either. I like it how it is, less massive scores, but also much better defensively. That said, if we keep going with the really good defense I reckon we'll encounter a team that crumbles under it soon and lets the flood gates open up scoring wise from turnovers. It seems to me we were not too bothered about peaking early and are only just starting to get going now.

Just guessing
O'Brien is competing which isn't allowing other teams to break away easily and allows CEY and Greenwood to be battering rams and able work in close with their larger bodies knowing the drop of the ball isn't going to be far away.
Which in turn allows Crouch, Crouch and Sloane to be clearance players and not get pounded as much.

ideally the likes of Milera go into the middle in the 2nd half and break away
 
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Jack is Back

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IMHO there has been some subtle changes in game plan.

1) We really suffered from a lack of a defensive inside midfielder in the early games. The addition of CEY and more importantly THE MIGHTY THOR has improved our grit around the ball, particularly in centre clearances. We were thumped by Geelong which may have prompted the changes. Our set up at the stoppages seems to be designed to make sure that the opposition doesn’t get clean ball at the expense of less clean stoppage wins by us.

2) Our inside mids are dropping deeper in defence (Matty Crouch saved our arse a few times against Freo).

3) Our outside mids/wings are not dropping as deep defensively. I was O.S. for the Gold Coast and St Kilda games but did see the other 4 games live. I am not sure if the role of our wings have changed or our wings have just been pretty average this year. The RAT and Bran Nue Mackae (who has played a combination of wing and defence) have had some good games and some shockers. We will know more when The SEED gets back.

4) Most teams including us seem to be focussing on closing down the corridor. Switch it into the corridor if you are game because if you make a mistake it will probably cost you a goal. This has forced a lot more kicks down the line against North and Freo (Mick Malthouse would love it).

5) We are trying to quickly switch the ball in defence to release a runner like Brodie Smith but other teams are getting better at closing down the space.

6) We are trying to get greater spread in our F50 but this hasn’t worked all that well. We have kicked to quite a lot of one-on-ones in the F50 but have not had the players to win these. Adding The BERG has given us a second option of kicking long and he is either marking it or making a contest.
 

mattymac

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Yeah, we do seem to be playing a more accountable, gritty style of football.

We've managed to wear down sides and capitalise on the pressure dropping off. Smith in particular seems to be getting off the leash in the second halves of games.

Our goalkicking looks to be our biggest problem at the moment. Decent sides will punish us.
Yahr we can't keep that s**t up. There's only so much the coach can do. He can't kick goals.
 

Its not the coach

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1 - L - Hawks (3-4, W- Crows, North, Carlton)
2 - W- Sydney (1-6, W- Carlton)
3 - L - Cats (6-1, W- Pies, Demons, Crows, Hawks, Eagles, Dons)
4 - L - North (2-5, W- Crows, Carlton)
5 - W- Suns (3-4, W- Freo, Dogs, Carlton)
6 - W- Saints (4-3, W- Suns, Dons, Hawks, Demons)
7 - W- Freo (4-3, W- North, Saints, Giants, Dogs)

You are right, not much quality in there. I reckon the one that stands out is the North game, that's a bad loss. We always lose to the Hawks, Cats are flying ... we have won the other 4 games.

We play a pretty ordinary team in Power this week ... look who they have wins against:

Melbourne
Carlton
Eagles
North

That's 3 of the 4 worst performing teams in 2019, and a win over the Eagles in Perth that is a great effort ... but they were struggling BIG time.

Win this week, and we are still none the wiser. The next 5 games after the showdown are gonna define our season:

Lions at the Gabba
Eagles at AO
Demons in NT
Giants at AO
Tigers at AO

Let's see where we stand after those :)
The showdown is included in the matches that define our season.
 

Alwaysacrow

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Would not call Brad Crouch and Greenwood slow, Brad 20m sprint is the same as Dangerfield (2.92), and Greenwood is 2.97
ROB no slouch in that area.
Brad is the quickest for sure but it's still not a fast midfield compared to others. As long as they move the ball quickly with precision it can work for us. I still can't wait though for Milera and Seed to come back however.
 

hey shorty

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Fantastic discussion and it's been fascinating to see the switch in style.

Coupled with minor changes in selection policy and some different language from most of our assistant coaches and it's been a strange start to the season.

I think ROB is also starting to assert his style which again changes how we play. We now have a ruckman who is quicker across the deck and wins the ground ball, which means our mids aren't all drawn to the contest and get on the outside more.

There's still work to be done but it looks OK thus far.
 

Elite Crow

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I still can’t get my head around why we start our smallest forward out of the goal square and not Tex.

Wouldn’t Tex on a lead be a better option than Murphy?

We start our talls closer to the 50 all in close proximity, meaning we have our slower players close together getting in each other’s way and without the defensive pressure if the opposition win the ball.
 

Jack is Back

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I still can’t get my head around why we start our smallest forward out of the goal square and not Tex.

Wouldn’t Tex on a lead be a better option than Murphy?

We start our talls closer to the 50 all in close proximity, meaning we have our slower players close together getting in each other’s way and without the defensive pressure if the opposition win the ball.

The set up of our front six at centre clearances is somewhat unusual. I wonder whether our more defensive set up at centre square clearances (more focussed on ensuring the opposition don’t get a clearance deep into their F50) means we don’t expect many/any one-on-one contests close to goal so we want our contested marking forwards near the 50 metre line for the scrubby kick out of the clearance?
 
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I think we have changed mindset as well as structure. There seems to be a definite mindset of physical contact on your opponent. Even if just a little bump or push. This is probably helped by having four guys come in over the past month or so who naturally play that way in CEY, Greenwood, RoB and Hberg. Jacobs and Jenkins were both not great defensively. We now have more guys with a hunt the ball/man mentality.

RoB has changed our clearance work. He gives a second, third and fourth effort. Not just offensively but also defensively. He really does play like a tall mid who can Ruck. Not in the same calibre as Grundy but a similar style. He ain't no dinosaur. Which I though he was.

Also seeing M Crouch and Sloaney switch from inside mid to defensive sweeper instead of rssting up forward. Sloane spent a decent amount of time on Lobb defensively.

RoB having a decent tank and tackle ability has seen him stand some of the oppositions bigger midfielders between taps. I noticed him running with Fyfe a bit. With CEY rolling off Fyfe and Mundy.


I kind of wonder the affect of losing Seed and Milera has seen us go down this more contested route. We have limited HB weapons at the moment, although Smithers is in great form and Laird is playing into better form. Laird is probably benefitting from the switch in our inside mids resting down back instead of forward.




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kulak

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I still can’t get my head around why we start our smallest forward out of the goal square and not Tex.

Wouldn’t Tex on a lead be a better option than Murphy?

We start our talls closer to the 50 all in close proximity, meaning we have our slower players close together getting in each other’s way and without the defensive pressure if the opposition win the ball.
Perhaps a won clearance is more likely to be a hack kick to 50, and less likely to be a clean takeaway and kick to 25.

- We don’t have a midfielder with the pace and power to consistently blast through the congestion.

- I would expect our preferred ruck knock should be to drop at feet as that would suit our midfield better than knocking it into space.

Hence more likely to be a quick kick - or a circuitous handball chain which gives time for the forwards to adjust.

Would have to see stats on where the first kick from our centre clearances lands but that would be my hypothesis.
 

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

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The tactics I think are extra numbers around the ball and more inside mids

The rest might just be a product of our forward line being pretty poor and our defence being very good

It’s the first time in years our defence is our strongest line , nearly all of our defenders have capacity to intercept mark coming off their man and most defend well 1 on 1 too

For increased scoring I feel we need a Milera type or 2 ( Jones as he develops) to increase the speed of ball movement and entry into attack

Teams play a goalkeeper or 2 against us these days so we don’t get those transition goals anymore , we need to re learn how to lead up at footy and we are starting to
I think the point about our defence is a big one. All of Talia, Keath, Hartigan and Kelly will happily leave their man to be third man up in a contest and will try to mark the ball as often as they will try to spoil, which suggests that it is definitely something Mattner has directed them to do. It helps that Keath and Hartigan have excellent closing speed.
 
The set up of our front six at centre clearances is somewhat unusual. I wonder whether our more defensive set up at centre square clearances (more focussed on ensuring the opposition don’t get a clearance deep into their F50) means we don’t expect many/any one-on-one contests close to goal so we want our contested marking forwards near the 50 metre line for the scrubby kick out of the clearance?

Yep spot on. We rarely if ever get a deep inside 50 from a center clearance because our midfield structure is set up to exit out the defensive side. We also love to hack kick. This means if we do end up kicking inside 50 it's typically a shallow entry so not much point having a key forward deep
 

Captain Morgan

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Games were heading that way anyway, it's just 6-6-6 hasn't added any major boosts to scoring like they thought it would.
Naa. I reckon that the defensive scores are an over-reaction to the game changes. We wouldn’t be having these scores this season if they left the bloody game alone and let the ebb and flow of tactic versus countermeasure rule the roost.

The measure of how defensive the game has gone is an indication of how seriously the coaches took the change, and the ‘upsets’ are more a reflection of what teams adapted better over the summer.
 
Cant wait for the day the afl anounces play on for kicking backwards that will make coaches really think

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This rule would turn the game on its head and make it so much more exciting. There would be a lot more scoring as a result.
 
7-6-5 zones are next
Personally I'm waiting for 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 zones. Every player must stand in a 2x2m box set out in the traditional positions at each bounce.
 
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