Autopsy Round 8, 2019: St.Kilda v West Coast

[gringo2011]

Just quietly, how bloody good is Josh Battle going to be?

He’s already showing some wonderful traits; reads the ball well in the air, great hands, knows when to intercept mark and when to spoil, makes good decisions with ball in hand and has got the skill to execute those decisions.

I know he gets beaten or finds himself out of position occasionally, but he doesn’t look like a bloke who’s played half a dozen games in defense.

We could be looking at a future AA CHB.

Him and Marshall are the finds of the season and that's with Wilkie and Parker in the side. Battle looks like he's tracking elite. For a 192 cm player he can rip grabs out of a pack is good with the ground ball and kicks like a laser. Looks like a little Rance. He was close to BOG last night.

 

[PoppedCorn]

He was struggling this week.. got beaten by Vardy who is a pretty ordinary ruckman himself.. we’re overrating Marshall way too much.. he had a couple of good games, he is can get some clearance, but he won’t be a dominant ruckman like Dawn, Martin or Grundy.. These are all seasoned rucks, Marshall used to play as a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck.. we need to find a more permanent solution, seeing Acres/Bruce rucking is ridiculous.

Been in for ten mins and played against decent opponents, done more than the last two

So umpiring was as bad on tv as it seemed at the game ?

Yup
Terrible decisions not paid

Did our skills look just as bad on tv as they seemed at the game

Handballing to a stationary team mate just because it's the first give, only to find him immediately under the pump
Fmd

It was fine just the usual Saints fan with the woe is us and umpiring

Lol
Seriously thought it was fine huh?

I've woken up with my head in a vice and the word ouzo has just brought up some very bad memories. No hang over like ouzo, you can still taste it 2 days alter.

Would roll into work ready for another day of bottling, sniff the air and go....Ouzo, *.

 

[bird_man]

**** umpiring. Murdered the ball and plenty of chances for goals. So pretty stock standard. Lack of effort at times really disappointing. Especially in the midfield. Need to bring in some fresh blood.

Parker due a rest. Young and Hind must come in! Few of boys are coasting at the moment.

Parker was pretty good for the two weeks prior to this. Not sure why he needs a rest. He's well in front of Long at this stage.

 

[gringo2011]

We play ridiculous dumb football unfortunately handball happy to guys a metre away under pressure
just needed to kick the ball to players in the clear , just little or no composure.

Total brain fades unfortunately ,gifted easy goals .

Tackled poorly last night , pretty much 2018 performance

Regardless of personal out , selection questionable , tactically dumb having Bruce 60 metres
from goal, had a number of opportunities last night to kick the ball forward through centre of the
ground , just lazy half arsed kicking the ball care factor nil Ross , Webster in particular.
Regretably Newnes had a shocker all night , but had a really good year .


Could have easily won with some brainpower , typical Stkilda performance of recent years.


Membrey , Sinclair , Ross , featured highly , unfortunately


Positives for year for me Battle , Wilkie & Marshall .


As for umpires well you know what you get with them ......not much.

Annoying part of the competition as a whole perception top teams Collingwood, West Coast
get gifted them week in week out , even when playing poorly ( stats don’t lie )
Thought Donlan & Nicholls missed a lot ..unfortunately the other one just guessed .

Certainly weren’t the reason we lost last night though .

I actually thought we weren't that bad, WCs pressure was very good and when you play at tempo you make mistakes. Especially when you have a young side in. I thought last year we would have had that little run on then thrown the towel in, it would have been a 10 goal loss. Some of the kids are super composed, Battle, Paton, Wilkie etc were all very good under pressure. I thought we looked poor in our front half with delivery and kicking inside to set up goals. Take away heir two goals directly in front in the first half and the game looks more interesting. Liam Ryan was the only forward that looked any good for them and over all they look bottom 4 not top 4. That's the frustration, they aren't very good this year. Should have beaten them and the umpiring was an unfair advantage. 3 frees in a half says they put away the whistle only they gave a few chaos balls with frees that cost direct goals against us for not very obvious ones. Not paying a couple of our marks that would be paid every other day that would have resulted in goals would also have made it interesting.

 

[sammm]

I think that will depend on the progress of you know who.

If he, unlike pretty much every tall forward high draft pick, looks like a starting 22 player straight away, Brown will be phased out but if he looks a little off it by the time Carlisle is ready then I'd prefer Battle to the forward line rather than dropping Brown or Wilkie.

Savage Brown Geary

McKenzie Carlisle Wilkie



Kent Bruce Membrey

Lonie Battle Parker

Everyone is saying how good Battle is getting and you still want him in the forward line. It wont happen. He is developing very nicely as future centre half back.

 

[Mikka84]

I still think we need to go shopping for FA, we are going to be a lot more appealing with a bit of momentum. We don't need spots with Roberton and Paddy unlikely to come back and Longer and Pierce looking like it would take a miracle to be on our list. Probably another couple like Rice that might struggle to get another go. We can't afford to lose anyone of quality. Stuv is probably 50/50 to play with us so if we lost him and another player like Seb, we replace them with one good player (who none are really available) we are still starting down a good player so are significantly worse than before.

Coniglio looks ideal, hopefully we can get Gubby in his ear selling him the vision. Jones is like slight upgrade on Dunny so no real win. Tomlinson looks like he's not really what we need.

Yep agree completely. Let’s hope there’s a nibble and we can land someone.

 

[Jughead77]

Morning lads, not the result we wanted but it was what we deserved.

I maybe alone in this thought but i feel the coaches did a pretty good job last night all things considered. What really stood out was the clear instruction to keep the ball from McGovern's direction. Remember last year, the majority of our posts were attacking the long ball strategy we had. Can't fault the players for sticking to the plan(for the most part) and fighting it out till the end. We had our chances, but lacked the skill and/or composure to take them.

Longy needs a spell. Granted the game style yesterday didn't suit him, but he needed to present more and not just wait for crumbs. I hope Nick Hind finally gets in. He's gone as well as anyone in the 2s and we really need that linebreaking speed he possesses. Why draft him if he's just gonna languish at sandy. Get him in.

We're 4-4, competitive, and with a much better gameplan. Significantly better than most ppl expected. 1/3 of the season gone, I can accept that.

 

[Saint12]

Lol
Seriously thought it was fine huh?

Yep

 

[pebblesofsand]

Everyone is saying how good Battle is getting and you still want him in the forward line. It wont happen. He is developing very nicely as future centre half back.

Possibly but he's a young player who up till now had only played a handful of games as a forward.

Now maybe he's a better suited to be an AFL backman than a forward but perhaps its just that he's just actually improved as an AFL player and surprise surprise may also be a better forward than he was last year. Once Carlisle is back we have enough defenders to test that theory.

Its a bit like Marshall - yep he's playing well as a ruckman but that doesn't automatically mean that he has just improved only as a ruckman.

Maybe with his natural progression he's now a gun forward as well - but we'd never know if we don't try it. (Although the lack of ruck options will most likely rule that out)

 

[Stewart66]

I actually thought we weren't that bad, WCs pressure was very good and when you play at tempo you make mistakes. Especially when you have a young side in. I thought last year we would have had that little run on then thrown the towel in, it would have been a 10 goal loss. Some of the kids are super composed, Battle, Paton, Wilkie etc were all very good under pressure. I thought we looked poor in our front half with delivery and kicking inside to set up goals. Take away heir two goals directly in front in the first half and the game looks more interesting. Liam Ryan was the only forward that looked any good for them and over all they look bottom 4 not top 4. That's the frustration, they aren't very good this year. Should have beaten them and the umpiring was an unfair advantage. 3 frees in a half says they put away the whistle only they gave a few chaos balls with frees that cost direct goals against us for not very obvious ones. Not paying a couple of our marks that would be paid every other day that would have resulted in goals would also have made it interesting.

We kicked the ball backwards , sideways countless times been mentioned even by own players post game

They knew it but kept doing it what does that tell you that’s not pressure that’s. DUMB

In the end invariably turning it over , keep saying it we practiced all summer having 3 marking
forwards , 3 smaller types , we accept too easily loses of this type , hard at the contest , we weren’t
yesterday , low tackle tells you that , 2nd & 3rd efforts what are they , if we lost the ball we rolled over.


Just lazy execution hurts you ,had countless chances of moving the ball by foot instead telegraph
handballs , we had a fantastic opportunity yesterday squandered it , Josh Kennedy banged up , no Nick Nat,
McGovern out of form ..really frustrating to win the ball and simply butcher it also.

 

[Sainttony]

Why would throwing the ball up have a huge impacts on clearances since Vardy is 200cm and Marshall is 201cm.

What has a huge impact on clearances is that Marshall, despite being very good around the ground, is not a tap ruckman which is why there was a huge impact on clearances.

Having said that if Vardy is continually tapping the ball back over his shoulder to Shuey/Sheed at the centre throw ups why the hell wouldn't you play man on man in the centre square.

A few comments

Not much to come in so a few will be saved - but Long needs to dropped.

Not sure if Newnes and Phillips can play in the same team - too similar.

Ross - the least damaging 30+ possession player in the league.

Battle is a very good player, Wilkie is a very good player, Brown is a very good defender.

When Carlisle comes back does that mean Battle goes forward?

No Carlisle goes forward. Although big Jake wants to play back we need a third tall up forward. Back line going ok, leave it alone.

 

[Saint Shags]

Parker for a rest maybe , Long well he is a cert for a spell , he was pathetic

Long definitely.
Would give Parker a break only if needing a rest. Was his first real quiet week for a bit.

 

[Saintbloke]

The story of last night again, was just too much inconsistency by too many- a good quarter here , a good half there etc but not many four quarter efforts. The whole team seems to have lost the drive and zip it had in early games (maybe Lonie was more important than we thought). The opposition seem to be walking away with easy clearances in the middle in these last few games, while the forwards just cant seem to win contests. We're a seriously poor marking team .

Don't know what can be done with that midfield and forward line...just not getting the job done. The backline is not too bad though.

A pity WCE got gifted 2 frees in front of goals, but we need to just hit the track running from the first bounce.

 

[Saint Shags]

We kicked the ball backwards , sideways countless times been mentioned even by own players post game

They knew it but kept doing it what does that tell you that’s not pressure that’s. DUMB

In the end invariably turning it over , keep saying it we practiced all summer having 3 marking
forwards , 3 smaller types , we accept too easily loses of this type , hard at the contest , we weren’t
yesterday , low tackle tells you that , 2nd & 3rd efforts what are they , if we lost the ball we rolled over.


Just lazy execution hurts you ,had countless chances of moving the ball by foot instead telegraph
handballs , we had a fantastic opportunity yesterday squandered it , Josh Kennedy banged up , no Nick Nat,
McGovern out of form ..really frustrating to win the ball and simply butcher it also.

Didn't we bemoan the continual kicking down the line last week? Not attempting to switch the ball or try another avenue.

 

[Snailspace13]

We play ridiculous dumb football unfortunately handball happy to guys a metre away under pressure
just needed to kick the ball to players in the clear , just little or no composure.

Total brain fades unfortunately ,gifted easy goals .

Tackled poorly last night , pretty much 2018 performance

Regardless of personal out , selection questionable , tactically dumb having Bruce 60 metres
from goal, had a number of opportunities last night to kick the ball forward through centre of the
ground , just lazy half arsed kicking the ball care factor nil Ross , Webster in particular.
Regretably Newnes had a shocker all night , but had a really good year .


Could have easily won with some brainpower , typical Stkilda performance of recent years.


Membrey , Sinclair , Ross , featured highly , unfortunately


Positives for year for me Battle , Wilkie & Marshall .


As for umpires well you know what you get with them ......not much.

Annoying part of the competition as a whole perception top teams Collingwood, West Coast
get gifted them week in week out , even when playing poorly ( stats don’t lie )
Thought Donlan & Nicholls missed a lot ..unfortunately the other one just guessed .

Certainly weren’t the reason we lost last night though .

Spot on with your umpire comments.
I honestly think the AFL has to make the Umpiring a Full Time Profession.
I understand Field Umpiring is a very tough gig, and they are not helped by the numerous rule changes year after year.
The game is now so fast that naturally umpires will make mistakes, but unfortunately with a 3 Field Umpire system it only takes 1 umpire to interpret the rules wrong or guess as suggested above and it can totally stuffs up a good game.
In my opinion the people in the AFL that run the Umpires contribute to low the standard some Field Umpires produce week in and week out.
They continue to tick off on contenious or wrong calls as the Umpire made the Right call in that situation.
Even the CEO of the AFL(in my opinion) hasnt helped this situation by saying the Dane Rampe call on Friday night was Ok.?????
The AFL must make Umpiring a Fulltime Proffesion and also continue with Thursday Night games which will allow the Best Umpires to officiate in Multiple games over a Weekend which rids the Game of the Umpires who are not up to Scratch of which there is many

 

[Stewart66]

Didn't we bemoan the continual kicking down the line last week? Not attempting to switch the ball or try another avenue.

Actually 2 weeks ago against Adelaide was denied Centre of the ground all night , were clueless
purely because of selection 1 tall forward of centre.

Suggest to look how many times a Stkilda player was standing in the very centre of the ground on their own.
particularly 1st half last night refused to kick the ball , telegraphed handball to bloke under pump.

West Coast peel back , to half back get the ball in the hands of Hurn and kill us on turnover .

 

[Mowman]

Actually 2 weeks ago against Adelaide was denied Centre of the ground all night , were clueless
purely because of selection 1 tall forward of centre.

Suggest to look how many times a Stkilda player was standing in the very centre of the ground on their own.
particularly 1st half last night refused to kick the ball , telegraphed handball to bloke under pump.

West Coast peel back , to half back get the ball in the hands of Hurn and kill us on turnover .

Don’t know how many times a simple handball or kick would land at our players feet or on thier wrong side
Our skills have been poor for years

 

[gringo2011]

Didn't we bemoan the continual kicking down the line last week? Not attempting to switch the ball or try another avenue.

Rooey suggested we might be too coachable, that they follow instruction instead of using initiative. One week we go bombing, the next we * around with the ball.

 

[Saintbloke]

Rooey suggested we might be too coachable, that they follow instruction instead of using initiative. One week we go bombing, the next we **** around with the ball.

Could be- like the golfer's yips

 

[MUFKilda]

Yep

The umpiring (especially against Saints) was terrible, mate. Awarding multiple free kicks for non-existent holding off the ball, but then allowing WCE off the ball elbows and punches to go unpunished, really isn't on.

 

[Billy Bob65]

Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats for the match. If you haven't seen one of these posts before, this is an overall summary of how often your players were starting as one of the 5 mids at centre bounces.

Overall Summary - 25 Bounces

Ross 24
Phillips 20 wing
Dunstan 20
Steele 17
Billings 16 (15w, 1i)
Newnes 13 wing
Gresham 11
Acres 3 (2w, 1i)
Sinclair 1

Rucks:
Marshall 24 (Vardy 24)
Bruce 1 (O.Allen 1)

1st Half - 10

Ross 10
Steele 9
Newnes 8 wing
Dunstan 7
Phillips 6 wing
Billings 6 wing
Gresham 4

Marshall 10

2nd Half - 17

Ross 14
Phillips 14 wing
Dunstan 13
Billings 10 (9w, 1i)
Steele 8
Gresham 7
Newnes 5 wing
Acres 3 (2w, 1i)
Sinclair 1

Marshall 16
Bruce 1

Notes:
- First time I've seen St Kilda employ the 2nd wing coming off the back of the square with the 6th back starting on the back half of the wing and having to sprint to find their (free) opponent - possibly means your coaches have been studying Essendon as they're the only side in the comp this season to utilise that structure on a regular basis...usually with little success. The structure only occurred maybe 3-4 times before being shelved again.
- New PB for Dunstan: this was his highest ever percentage of bounces attended (80%) in an analysed game. His previous high was a 75% attendance ratio in Rd 7, 2018

 

[Saint12]

The umpiring (especially against Saints) was terrible, mate. Awarding multiple free kicks for non-existent holding off the ball, but then allowing WCE off the ball elbows and punches to go unpunished, really isn't on.

Funny how in every game StKilda has ever played we have been reamed by the umpires (especially when we lose)

 

[dsav]

Some photos up.
https://www.davesavell.com/p280045408
or
https://www.facebook.com/pg/davesavellphotography/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1564713656996740





Dave.

 

[CaptainRisky]

View attachment 671851



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

WTF is this about ?

 

[CaptainRisky]

Some photos up.
https://www.davesavell.com/p280045408
or
https://www.facebook.com/pg/davesavellphotography/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1564713656996740

View attachment 672080

View attachment 672079

Dave.

Are you off to Vic Park today Dave