Roast The Chronicles of Alan Richardson - Part II - Richo Resigns (16/07)

[George]

We've never been good under Richo though. We've had some good moments but I haven't seen an actually good Saints team in 9 years. I don't get why you're getting so defensive on his behalf either, not like anyone is saying you should be sacked. People are pointing out that we have statistically the worst coach in VFL/AFL history. I don't care if he took over a **** list at a **** time, I've said it before and I'll say it again, other coaches have done the same and NOT become the statistically worst coach in VFL/AFL history.

Getting so defensive? Didn't you see the part where I said that I think he isn't up to it either?

I'm looking at our issues as a collective, not just blaming one person for the way we have performed. It's silly to do that.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Getting so defensive? Didn't you see the part where I said that I think he isn't up to it either?

I'm looking at our issues as a collective, not just blaming one person for the way we have performed. It's silly to do that.

I actually did miss that yeh. I dunno I'm still getting mixed messages. I think we can all agree though that there's more to blame than just Richo but I don't think diffusing responsibility for our perennial mediocrity is particularly helpful either.

 

[triggering bro]

Apologies mate I don't come in here too often so probably missed your other posts about it. Yes definitely not writing off Ratten either but I reckon we need to keep our eyes on it because a lot of our deficiencies have been masked by wins so now that we've had a couple of weeks of losing and generally being outplayed those deficiencies are more evident. In the GWS game last week I noticed (like many others) our entry but I also was worried about our inability to score. Going into this week I made sure I kept an eye on it and it seems like nothing changed. I'm really worried about it. Can't win many games kicking 60-70 points. We play a very taxing, dire brand of football and whilst it means we will most likely be in a lot of games, it also gives the players little reward for effort. I think it's an intentional move by the coaching group to limit the blowouts. Not sure how I feel about it.

The biggest issue is we don’t have the cattle hence why we are playing this dire brand of footy.

The failure to identify & develop talent is the crux of the matter. That’s on recruiting & coaching.

The fact we haven’t recruited & developed an elite player for around 15 years is telling. That’s on RTB as well but his focus was justifiably on the now.

Let’s hope Gresham, Billings, Marshall & Battle go against the grain & become elite. They are our best chance, along with Winx.

And finally, in the future can we please identify an elite midfielder for crying out loud. Just looking at all the clubs us & Gold Coast are the only two clubs without an elite mid. Maybe North at a pinch. Sydney’s mids are starting to get worse from age.

 

[George]

The biggest issue is we don’t have the cattle hence why we are playing this dire brand of footy.

The failure to identify & develop talent is the crux of the matter. That’s on recruiting & coaching.

The fact we haven’t recruited & developed an elite player for around 15 years is telling. That’s on RTB as well but his focus was justifiably on the now.

Let’s hope Gresham, Billings, Marshall & Battle go against the grain & become elite. They are our best chance, along with Winx.

And finally, in the future can we please identify an elite midfielder for crying out loud. Just looking at all the clubs us & Gold Coast are the only two clubs without an elite mid. Maybe North at a pinch. Sydney’s mids are starting to get worse from age.

I agree - was just pointing it out. We must be a very frustrating side to play against. But again just shows that it's a wide range of issues.

 

[Mikka84]

I'm tipping the club has already decided.

Payout stopped them last year.

They will already know what Ratts brings to the table.

Unless a big name is available, it will be Ratts with Lade as assistant.

Like my post if you agree...

The force is strong with this one..

 

[gringo2011]

So if an employee is told where to improve and starts meeting kpis then you still sack them right?

LMAO.

I'm not sure what capacity Mikka is involved at the Saints but he has an ear to the ground at the club. It's sounding pretty bleak for Richo even if he makes finals let alone if he fails. I think it sounds like he hasn't got too many credits in the bank and the winds of change are coming through with the new appointments. I think the system is being credited to our new coaching staff and rather than keep Richo, I'd expect them to oust him unless he makes finals and then he gives himself a bit of a suit of armour. Not too many are brave enough to oust a coach who's made finals for the first time in years.

 

[gringo2011]

I certainly recognise that its more complex than saying it’s only Richo’s fault. I’ve consistently posted that we have got many things which you mentioned wrong which has collectively put us in the position. But this is a topic dedicated to Richo so naturally his position will be talked about more than others.

I’m not sold on Rats just yet. Certainly not writing him off either. We just need to see the impact he has on the group over a longer period. Like that he brings Clarko IP though.

I think who ever has implemented our system is doing well. Really we have been over performing for the side we put up against quality sides. We look organised with lots of players under 20 games. It looks like we have actual zones and set plays that aren't the same every time etc. We definitely look well drilled, just lack class and talent still. I don't have anything against Richo but he's had more time than most get in this industry. He's the equivalent to a player who keeps getting games in the midfield despite averaging 15 possessions in his 7th season.

 

[Mikka84]

I'm tipping the club has already decided.

Payout stopped them last year.

They will already know what Ratts brings to the table.

Unless a big name is available, it will be Ratts with Lade as assistant.

Like my post if you agree...

In all seriousness - think they had their mind made before round 1. Then, had their minds changed, it would be because our year had been outstanding, sort of win/win.

There are other factors that help Rats cause as well. Marketing, reputation, brand management that Richo doesn’t possess.

I actually don’t mind Richo. He’s a bit boring, but can hold a conversation. I think he’ll find a job easy enough if the inevitable were to occur.

 

[gringo2011]

The biggest issue is we don’t have the cattle hence why we are playing this dire brand of footy.

The failure to identify & develop talent is the crux of the matter. That’s on recruiting & coaching.

The fact we haven’t recruited & developed an elite player for around 15 years is telling. That’s on RTB as well but his focus was justifiably on the now.

Let’s hope Gresham, Billings, Marshall & Battle go against the grain & become elite. They are our best chance, along with Winx.

And finally, in the future can we please identify an elite midfielder for crying out loud. Just looking at all the clubs us & Gold Coast are the only two clubs without an elite mid. Maybe North at a pinch. Sydney’s mids are starting to get worse from age.

Fiorini will move into the midfield eventually and he's already a gun. Will be as super player and already racks up lots of good disposal. We need to start getting high end mids. We should see if we can land a big dog recruiter as a matter of priority.

 

[triggering bro]

I think who ever has implemented our system is doing well. Really we have been over performing for the side we put up against quality sides. We look organised with lots of players under 20 games. It looks like we have actual zones and set plays that aren't the same every time etc. We definitely look well drilled, just lack class and talent still. I don't have anything against Richo but he's had more time than most get in this industry. He's the equivalent to a player who keeps getting games in the midfield despite averaging 15 possessions in his 7th season.

Yup agree. He’s had plenty of chances. You definitely can’t say the club hasn’t given him enough opportunity. They’ve backed him in for a while now & looks like his credits have run out. I feel for him because he’s been up against it with some key injuries & Steven’s issues.

 

[From 45]

Worked out well for Richmond. And Collingwood, to a lesser extent.

That's because Caracella came in and changed they way Richmond played. Let's hope Ratts has the same impact

 

[gringo2011]

In all seriousness - think they had their mind made before round 1. Then had their minds changed, it would be because our year had been outstanding, sort of win/win.

There are other factors that help Rats cause as well. Marketing, reputation, brand management that Richo doesn’t possess.

I actually don’t mind Richo. He’s a bit boring, but can hold a conversation. I think he’ll find a job easy enough if the inevitable were to occur.

Yeah, he's a nice bloke but he's boring as *. He's one of those guys who's generous with their time but you wish he was a tight arse.

 

[triggering bro]

Fiorini will move into the midfield eventually and he's already a gun. Will be as super player and already racks up lots of good disposal. We need to start getting high end mids. We should see if we can land a big dog recruiter as a matter of priority.

Hopefully we can develop Clark to become an elite mid. The signs aren’t great though. Yup he’s young & developing but he’s come into the system with a number of shortcomings that are holding him back. It would be nice to recruit a mid that automatically impacts at AFL level. Many other clubs seem to be able to do it. It’s frustrating that we are unable to.

 

[kernelT]

He has zero credits.

Last year isn't a baseline to measure improvement, it was an absolutely embarrassing time for the club and worse than plenty of spoon years.

6 years • 118 games • 41 Wins • < 35 %

10 wins from his last 37 games.

He's a complete liability in the media.

As exciting as it was to be on top of the ladder halfway through round 5, 3 weeks later we are 12th with an average weekly score of 75 points, still.

Everyone can relax.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Think I'll just hold my powder until we have closer to a full complement playing.

Judging Richo on the current team regardless of last year is pretty slanted.

 

[gringo2011]

Hopefully we can develop Clark to become an elite mid. The signs aren’t great though. Yup he’s young & developing but he’s come into the system with a number of shortcomings that are holding him back. It would be nice to recruit a mid that automatically impacts at AFL level. Many other clubs seem to be able to do it. It’s frustrating that we are unable to.

It's funny, I was a fan of Hunter's in his draft year, I recently went back and watched the All stars game he played in, he was much slower than I had remembered and some of the things he was showing that aren't perfect where on show in his game. In hindsight there were a few little issues. I think he'll be at least a good player but he's got a few things to clean up. Lack of pace means he's going to have to be smarter and cleaner than those around him. Needs to go full time inside mid to make it to a super high level IMO. He's got something about him still.

 

[Present Not Past]

I'm tipping the club has already decided.

Payout stopped them last year.

They will already know what Ratts brings to the table.

Unless a big name is available, it will be Ratts with Lade as assistant.

Like my post if you agree...

I agree. The look on Cho's face at the final siren in the loss against West Coast was - I am one more step closer to the exit door.
And that's how it should be when contracts expire.

 

[kernelT]

Plenty of clubs dealing with 8-10+ injuries currently

I actually think the club did Alan a pretty solid favour by bringing in what, 8 mature players this year?

 

[StCicatriz]

Funny that nobody is questioning Ratten. We haven't kicked 100 points all year. One of the lowest scoring sides in the competition. The lowest inside 50 to score ratio in the league.

he's not the messiah.

tbh it wouldn't surprise me one iota if richo is not senior coach next year and we do NOT appoint ratten

 

[StCicatriz]

I just think people need to look at it objectively. It's not like we have been **** for 6 straight years. We've had years we've won 10-12 games isince he took over. His first two years we must admit that he took over a team going absolutely nowhere so some credence needs to be given here. 2018 was a complete balls up no doubt about it, but at the moment it seems to be a once off.

Fair enough that when things go pear shaped people will attack the head coach, but if anyone wants to really analyse why things are the way they are then you'd probably find that it's a mixture of a lot of things - including the entire coaching group, given the fact that we appointed Ratten to fix a main area of our game and he has failed to do so. I think that needs to be addressed. Effort from the players can't be questioned and our back six have been superb despite major injuries to key position players and our skipper. 8 straight weeks now of less than 100pts. We seem to get it in there a lot but it's all cheap entry - bombs to packs and outnumbers. Any team can have 60 inside 50's a game doing that. I've no doubt that we would be a top four side if we fixed our entry.

And I know he has a clause to win a final this year but that clause is only for an automatic extension. He can still extend his contract if he doesn't win a final - when the club sits down with him and evaluates everything. We would be an amateur club if we sacked a coach just coming off a finals series.

I'm not so much annoyed at the negativity surrounding the coach as much as I am at others failure (or ignorance) to recognise that it's much deeper than that. It's the coaching as a whole. It's the recruitment, it's the players themselves, and sometimes it's just bad luck. Richo has the final say on many things but he doesn't have the only say.

tbh the results haven't been what they should have been for 3 seasons now. any coach worth their salt will be able to take just about any list to finals in his 3rd season. without a doubt by the 4th. so by 2016 we should have known. anyone with their finger on the pulse of how successful clubs operate would have called it then. 2017 it was obvious. 2018 was like a spectral fire. no one could ignore it. 2019 is much improved. but i think the results last year were so low, a natural improvement from bouncing back from the bottom, would make it look better. fixture is better too. hard on richo to turn it all around in 1 season. he's paying for complacency and the sub par football dept he had a big hand in implementing.

i nearly spat out my coffee when i heard mcclure talk about carlton and his new coach jezza. did you catch that one? lost 4 games in two years for i think under 19 points? was sacked....

meanwhile richo is literally the least successful coach to coach over 100 games, yet you will still find people either defending him or the management that see's him take out that honor. that tells me we could have literally anyone coaching this club and some people wouldn't have an issue with it. they'll always be happy and defend it. i wish there was an extra column to the richo stat, the person who appointed them and then extended their contract!

 

[StCicatriz]

Getting so defensive? Didn't you see the part where I said that I think he isn't up to it either?

I'm looking at our issues as a collective, not just blaming one person for the way we have performed. It's silly to do that.

i agree lets start holding the club and its management to account for this s**t fest.

individuals don't fail. organisations fail.

time for people to be made accountable down there. instead of hiding behind a coach.

no one forced them to extend richo's contract. no one forced them to only have any real protection for the club at the end of season 2019. if we wanted to pull the pin in 2018 then we should have been able to without fear of financial repercussion. that's on the club. they make the contract they want. they had the upper hand. not richo. instead richo walked out with a gifted year of employment at 650k.

 

[StCicatriz]

The biggest issue is we don’t have the cattle hence why we are playing this dire brand of footy.

The failure to identify & develop talent is the crux of the matter. That’s on recruiting & coaching.

The fact we haven’t recruited & developed an elite player for around 15 years is telling. That’s on RTB as well but his focus was justifiably on the now.

Let’s hope Gresham, Billings, Marshall & Battle go against the grain & become elite. They are our best chance, along with Winx.

And finally, in the future can we please identify an elite midfielder for crying out loud. Just looking at all the clubs us & Gold Coast are the only two clubs without an elite mid. Maybe North at a pinch. Sydney’s mids are starting to get worse from age.

tbh i feel the club and its overall management is getting worse as each year ticks on. just the improvement this year hasn't made it as obvious. it's turning into a boys club. jobs for your mates. that will only create an environment of very little accountability, the same old thinking and little innovation.

i'll give George credit he had concerns over the current president taking over. he might be pretty justified in that. he was part of the last board and may have been right behind previous decisions. he doesn't appear to have any real cut and thrust either, similar to summers. although summers atleast came in and read the riot act to watters and pelchen.

 

[saints man]

While I do think this is possible, I am not saying it is going to happen. But imagine how good it would be...

We win two or more games before round 12 then after:
. Steven, Geary and Carslile return to the team
. Hannerberry debuts
. King finds form in the vfl and debuts while being able to at least compete at the highest level
. Webster finds form
. Acres becomes GOAT

We go on to make finals even win one. Roberton gets his health sorted out. We actually recruit a gun midfielder or two. Get another pre season into Marshall, Steele, Billings, Gresh, Acres, Sinclair, Parker, Clark and Coffield.

The future looks pretty good.

 

[George]

tbh the results haven't been what they should have been for 3 seasons now. any coach worth their salt will be able to take just about any list to finals in his 3rd season. without a doubt by the 4th. so by 2016 we should have known. anyone with their finger on the pulse of how successful clubs operate would have called it then. 2017 it was obvious. 2018 was like a spectral fire. no one could ignore it. 2019 is much improved. but i think the results last year were so low, a natural improvement from bouncing back from the bottom, would make it look better. fixture is better too. hard on richo to turn it all around in 1 season. he's paying for complacency and the sub par football dept he had a big hand in implementing.

i nearly spat out my coffee when i heard mcclure talk about carlton and his new coach jezza. did you catch that one? lost 4 games in two years for i think under 19 points? was sacked....

meanwhile richo is literally the least successful coach to coach over 100 games, yet you will still find people either defending him or the management that see's him take out that honor. that tells me we could have literally anyone coaching this club and some people wouldn't have an issue with it. they'll always be happy and defend it. i wish there was an extra column to the richo stat, the person who appointed them and then extended their contract!

I'm not too sure why you go on about timeframes for finals and flags. Rebuilds aren't linear. If we saw gradual improvement year on year for 3 seasons but just missed finals every time do we sack a coach because of statistics or do we back him in to continue improving the group in year 4. By 2016 we should've known? Did you see the list when he took over? We had Tom Lee as our forward target and Josh Bruce playing centre half back. We completely bottomed out. Richardson's results improved year on year until 2018 when we completely shat the bed. Club backed him in and improved the people around him and it's worked, unless you think we should've beaten any of GWS, Adelaide or West Coast over the last three weeks. If so I'd then say to you at the start of the year did you think we'd beat Hawthorn, Essendon and Melbourne. Most said no but we have. 2019 has been a great improvement and if we will criticise Richo for what happened in 2018 then we must praise him for the work he has done this year with an injury ravaged list and a makeshift back six that is being held up well by guys with less than 20 games experience.

i agree lets start holding the club and its management to account for this **** fest.

individuals don't fail. organisations fail.

time for people to be made accountable down there. instead of hiding behind a coach.

no one forced them to extend richo's contract. no one forced them to only have any real protection for the club at the end of season 2019. if we wanted to pull the pin in 2018 then we should have been able to without fear of financial repercussion. that's on the club. they make the contract they want. they had the upper hand. not richo. instead richo walked out with a gifted year of employment at 650k.

It wasn't the point I was making when I said it's a whole range of issues. I'm talking about our performance on field. When we bomb the ball inside 50 or show no composure moving the ball forward of centre that's not only on Richo it's on the entire coaching group and I would say more of it has to do with Ratten as he was brought into the club for this purpose. I'm not too sure what you see off-field that is so evidently bad that change needs to occur. Lethers is a fine operator and commercially we are better than we have probably ever been. Of course things could be better but every club would say that.

tbh i feel the club and its overall management is getting worse as each year ticks on. just the improvement this year hasn't made it as obvious. it's turning into a boys club. jobs for your mates. that will only create an environment of very little accountability, the same old thinking and little innovation.

i'll give George credit he had concerns over the current president taking over. he might be pretty justified in that. he was part of the last board and may have been right behind previous decisions. he doesn't appear to have any real cut and thrust either, similar to summers. although summers atleast came in and read the riot act to watters and pelchen.

How do you come to those kinds of conclusions? Because Lethlean brought in Hannebery and Gallagher? What have either of them done wrong to give you the idea that it's getting worse and there's little accountability or innovation? I don't understand that. Slater is a prime example of innovation.

I only had concerns pre appointment because like you said he was part of the current regime, but nothing he has done so far has led me to believe I was right. So far Bassat has proven me wrong. Again I'm not sure how you can say he has no real cut & thrust. Where's the proof of that? He approved to gut basically the entire football department as soon as he was appointed.

 

[BrutThough]

tbh i feel the club and its overall management is getting worse as each year ticks on. just the improvement this year hasn't made it as obvious. it's turning into a boys club. jobs for your mates. that will only create an environment of very little accountability, the same old thinking and little innovation.

i'll give George credit he had concerns over the current president taking over. he might be pretty justified in that. he was part of the last board and may have been right behind previous decisions. he doesn't appear to have any real cut and thrust either, similar to summers. although summers atleast came in and read the riot act to watters and pelchen.

The entire AFL industry is a boys club.
Maybe at least now we will finally be at industry standards.