Player Watch Gary Ablett Junior is the best player ever

[Seeds]

When it's the subject of who is the best player, you can't reasonably judge modern day players against older players - you can only judge them in the context of the era that they're in.

That's why these conversations are all a load of old tosh.

If you want to make a reasonable argument, I'd say that the best player of this era is the bloke who will finish with 500 more goals than every one of his modern day contemporaries in a league that is engineered to stop exactly that from happening. Buddy Franklin is in the midst of players who got their goal kicking numbers in a game where they were frequently permitted to kick 10+ goals.

On the flip side, the gulf between Ablett and other midfielders isn't that big. It definitely won't be by the time guys like Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield finish up.



Franklin kicked 13 goals in a game at Launceston. It took Rough 5 years post Franklin to beat his goal kicking total record on that ground. I hope you're not intentionally this way as a human being.

A one off. He was notorious for kicking behinds at the ground.

 

[KermitJagger]

A one off. He was notorious for kicking behinds at the ground.

Franklin Averages the following across all grounds besides Launceston:
15 disposals
2.9 goals
2 behinds

Franklin averages at Launceston:
15.8 disposals
3.5 goals
1.8 behinds

Not only are you demonstrably wrong, you're so confident about it. It's inspiring in a weird kind of way.

Anyway - carry on.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Imagine Buddy with the luxury of Pagan's paddock rather than 25 blokes inside the forward 50 all the time.

Carey is the best I've seen FWIW but Buddy would have tore up the 90s without doubt.

He'd have been played in the ruck.

 

[KermitJagger]

He'd have been played in the ruck.

Paul Salmon was a hell of a lot taller than Franklin and played majority Full Forward in the 90s until he went to Hawthorn. Nice attempt to shift the goal posts though.

 

[MinerBoy]

He'd have been played in the ruck.

Hahah I can see why you’ve said that but Buddy is so far from a ruckman in any era it’s not funny



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PhatBoy]

Are you being purposely thick or what? Matthew won the Coleman playing in the midfield how many other full time mids have achieved this? Why hasn't Ablett. We're talking about the best player of all time here not the best of the last 20 years.

He won it with 67 goals its worth remembering. It’s not like he kicked 90 from the middle. Modern footy simply doesn’t allow a midfielder to go forward and kick goals that often, it’s fairly simple. Danger is probably he most physically capable of it currently and he’d have to spend half of every game camped forward to do it because as a mid he simply isn’t going to be given enough freedom to just waltz forward from his normal role and receive the ball either by mark or in general play

 

[Nuggets73]

Hayden Bunton Snr surely.

> Bunton is the only footballer to have won the Brownlow Medal and the Sandover Medal three times each
> Bunton is also the only player to have averaged one Brownlow vote per game over his career

 

[gavaniacono]

Why Coleman?

A short and spectacular playing career in which he took the comp by storm with forward skills hitherto unseen. His marking and athleticism was beyond comprehension. Coached a couple of flags too I think.

From memory both John and Bunton Snr died very young at the age of 44.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

He won it with 67 goals its worth remembering. It’s not like he kicked 90 from the middle. Modern footy simply doesn’t allow a midfielder to go forward and kick goals that often, it’s fairly simple. Danger is probably he most physically capable of it currently and he’d have to spend half of every game camped forward to do it because as a mid he simply isn’t going to be given enough freedom to just waltz forward from his normal role and receive the ball either by mark or in general play

I still wanna know how he kicked 5.5 from 10 kicks when we was roving.

He did have 2 handball for the game. Maybe that was his contribution as 1st rover for the day and kicked the 5.5 when he was resting in the forward pocket.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

It seems everyone has a different criteria for how they decide the greatest player of all time. For me, it’s the first player you would choose if you lined all of them up to pick a side.

For mine, Ablett doesn’t have the leadership qualities and he can’t swing a game when everyone around him is struggling.

Carey, Voss and Hird are the 3 best I have seen in the flesh by the above criteria, and it’s probably Selwood and Franklin way ahead of Ablett if I’m lining them all up to select a team based on the last 20 years.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

So difficult to compare players from different generations, Ablett Snr didn’t have to contend with zones, taggers have come a long way since the Carey days. Buddy would have kicked 100 goals a season in the 90s.

I read zones as Jones and I wondered exactly how highly you must have rated old Clinton.

... never mind

 

[KermitJagger]

He won it with 67 goals its worth remembering. It’s not like he kicked 90 from the middle. Modern footy simply doesn’t allow a midfielder to go forward and kick goals that often, it’s fairly simple. Danger is probably he most physically capable of it currently and he’d have to spend half of every game camped forward to do it because as a mid he simply isn’t going to be given enough freedom to just waltz forward from his normal role and receive the ball either by mark or in general play

He won it with 67, but he also had probably the best single season in the history of AFL football in 1977 when he averaged 27.5 touches, 3.8 goals. Unfortunately didn't win the Coleman though, that went to Peter Hudson with 110.

 

[PhatBoy]

He won it with 67, but he also had probably the best single season in the history of AFL football in 1977 when he averaged 27.5 touches, 3.8 goals. Unfortunately didn't win the Coleman though, that went to Peter Hudson with 110.

That’s fair enough and there’s no disputing he is one of the other players who has a claim at the title. I think what Ablett is doing at 34 though is a good indicator that in another era he would have been more than capable of easily having multiple 50-60 goal seasons based on the way the game was played. Remember players like Gerard Healy for example had 70 goal seasons playing as a mid who went forward too

 

[PhatBoy]

It seems everyone has a different criteria for how they decide the greatest player of all time. For me, it’s the first player you would choose if you lined all of them up to pick a side.

For mine, Ablett doesn’t have the leadership qualities and he can’t swing a game when everyone around him is struggling.

Carey, Voss and Hird are the 3 best I have seen in the flesh by the above criteria, and it’s probably Selwood and Franklin way ahead of Ablett if I’m lining them all up to select a team based on the last 20 years.

I know I’ve harped on about it multiple times but Ablett had a team 9-6 who then went 4-25 when he got injured so that would suggest that he was indeed able to lift his side to success when others around him struggled.

It was never apparent at Geelong as much because they won no matter what

 

[Sttew]

And leaders. This is the first season where I think neutral observers rate his leadership.

Who are you talking about? Buddy? A leader?

 

[KermitJagger]

That’s fair enough and there’s no disputing he is one of the other players who has a claim at the title. I think what Ablett is doing at 34 though is a good indicator that in another era he would have been more than capable of easily having multiple 50-60 goal seasons based on the way the game was played. Remember players like Gerard Healy for example had 70 goal seasons playing as a mid who went forward too

I'm not disputing that.

I'm very firmly of the opinion that the best players now would dominate the years gone by, it's just how sport works. Players get better over time.

It's just difficult to argue 'greatness' between eras because you need to judge them on their performance relative to their era. That's the difficult part because it'll always be subjective.

 

[KermitJagger]

Ablett and Franklin are obviously on a rung above every other player from the 2000s in terms of quality over a long period of time. Longevity permitting, Judd would be in that conversation too, but he simply didn't play for long enough.

That being said, the gap between Ablett and his contemporaries is a lot smaller than the gap between Buddy and his contemporaries.

It all comes down to interpretation, and I am not a Buddy lover, but he will finish his career as a player who defied the modern game through his productivity in front of goal.

 

[Furn2]

Sorry but this is dinosaur thinking. The modern game has changed and coaches are far too defensively adept to allow regular bags like this to be kicked, which happened relatively frequently back in the old classic footy days.

We probably wont ever see a stat line like that again, it doesnt exclude current or future players being the GOAT. Part of the game is evolution and that means accepting the changes in the way the game is played and who the best players of that time are, they are very different to how the old players and teams played.

Yeah mids kicked 11 goals all the time back in the day.

Lethal kicked 5 goals or more and had over 30 possessions 14 times. Ablett has never done it.

 

[Duskfire]

It seems everyone has a different criteria for how they decide the greatest player of all time. For me, it’s the first player you would choose if you lined all of them up to pick a side.

For mine, Ablett doesn’t have the leadership qualities and he can’t swing a game when everyone around him is struggling.

Carey, Voss and Hird are the 3 best I have seen in the flesh by the above criteria, and it’s probably Selwood and Franklin way ahead of Ablett if I’m lining them all up to select a team based on the last 20 years.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, at the very least Ablett in his prime would play well regardless of how the rest of the team was going. I remember in 2010 Geelong got smashed by Collingwood in the Prelim but Ablett was Geelongs best, same with the 08 grand final.

Leadership is important but if you don’t have the players nothing will get done. Geelong also won three premierships with captains who aren’t discussed as being up there, so I am not sure if I agree that leaders are the most important.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Yeah mids kicked 11 goals all the time back in the day.

Lethal kicked 5 goals or more and had over 30 possessions 14 times. Ablett has never done it.

Ablett has won 5 MVPs and 3 in a row.
NO-ONE in HISTORY has ever done even 1 of those.

 

[branedotorg]

seems like a s**t bloke but he can really play

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

While I agree with you to a certain extent, at the very least Ablett in his prime would play well regardless of how the rest of the team was going. I remember in 2010 Geelong got smashed by Collingwood in the Prelim but Ablett was Geelongs best, same with the 08 grand final.

Leadership is important but if you don’t have the players nothing will get done. Geelong also won three premierships with captains who aren’t discussed as being up there, so I am not sure if I agree that leaders are the most important.

Yes, I remember the game and this is partially my point. He couldn’t lift a Geelong side that was wall-to-wall Premiership stars.

Whether it’s real or an overreaction there’s always a lingering feeling that Gary plays for Gary and if the team wins then so be it.

Gold Coast post-Ablett are at least a competitive unit, under Ablett he would regularly get 40+ and look like a star, while the team got absolutely belted. In my opinion if you put Carey, Voss, Hird or Selwood up at the Gold Coast they set a competitive standard amongst the team as well as perform like superstars, that is the difference.

 

[Wallaby]

I'm not disputing that.

I'm very firmly of the opinion that the best players now would dominate the years gone by, it's just how sport works. Players get better over time.

I agree current players are significantly better than the old days, and would dominate if they were transported back in time to play at the level they are now - but really, that's like saying Lewis Hamilton in his Mercedes would be a faster driver than Fangio in his 1950s Ferrari. How do you reckon Buddy would go if he had to work full time, train barely twice a week (start pre-season in February), smoke a packet of durries a day ('Good for the breathing!') and play on mudheaps 90% of the time?

Conversely, how good would Haydn Bunton be with todays fitness and recovery science, being able to train full-time, eat proper food, study opponents via video etc?

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes, I remember the game and this is partially my point. He couldn’t lift a Geelong side that was wall-to-wall Premiership stars.

Whether it’s real or an overreaction there’s always a lingering feeling that Gary plays for Gary and if the team wins then so be it.

Gold Coast post-Ablett are at least a competitive unit, under Ablett he would regularly get 40+ and look like a star, while the team got absolutely belted. In my opinion if you put Carey, Voss, Hird or Selwood up at the Gold Coast they set a competitive standard amongst the team as well as perform like superstars, that is the difference.

So Carey for example, who played in 7 straight prelims and won two grand finals - kicking 3 goals in those winning grand finals. He kicked 6 in a prelim against Geelong in 1994.

Being such a leader shouldn’t his effort have carried his team over the line?

 

[Roobs321]

He is the best I've ever seen. His longevity and sustained MVP stature obviously has him up near the top, but at his best he was unmistakably ahead of every other player I've seen since the mid 90s. His form this season is rather ridiculous for a dude who was already becoming a regular in 2002.