Strategy While we’ve been tearing our hair out - has Don completely changed the gameplan?

[Geoffa32]

With that being said, it did give Melbourne the chance to steal the game against the suns which most likely wouldn’t have happened under the old rules. Makes for exciting games if scores are close.

Given it was a draw with 18 seconds to go I wonder which coach would load up their backline under the old rules.

Could have just seen a mass.l group of players from both sides swap ends before the bounce lol.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Stiffy_18]

First of all this was a great pick up from the OP Good work PeterJ. I hadn't considered this earlier, but it is spot on - we have significantly changed our game plan. I love that we had the courage to do so.

I'm also pleased to see that Pyke has become harder on the playing group. The Jenkins dropping is a significant move. I just hope he has the courage to maintain the course and doesn't revert to type. I do wonder if we would have had the courage to play ROB if Jacobs wasn't injured...doubtful.

I do have one lingering concern from the showdown.

In the last quarter we seemed to go with the old 'good job everyone, games over, take it easy now' approach. We have a **** habit of doing this and need some real hard-nosed, foot on throat players.
During Port's run on I was very critical of our midfield setup. We didn't man up, didn't play defensive side and let them run around unchecked. Our guys were far too slow to read the change in play and lock down. We just kept going through the motions. Thankfully Sloane stepped up and helped us settle down. I'm hopeful our coaching staff are reviewing our set up in the last quarter and we don't let it happen again. We can't have patches where we get smashed like that.

It’s a valid concern and usually I would agree.

However, after the Freo game the boys were REALLY sore. Campo in his 5aa interview said that between the two 50m arcs we averaged 50 stoppages per game not including center bounces. In the Freo game we had 80. That is 30 more than usual which is 60% increase. That is huge. Add to that that not a lot of goals were kicked so there is no that “breather” time between goal getting kicked and the ball bounced again and its a lot of effort without much recovery time. Freo game was extremely demanding physically so we were always going to struglle to run the game out against Port on a 6 day break.

Now if this happens again in “normal” circumstances, then I would be worried but this time, I can see genuine reason why it would have happened.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It’s a valid concern and usually I would agree.

However, after the Freo game the boys were REALLY sore. Campo in his 5aa interview said that between the two 50m arcs we averaged 50 stoppages per game not including center bounces. In the Freo game we had 80. That is 30 more than usual which is 60% increase. That is huge. Add to that that not a lot of goals were kicked so there is no that “breather” time between goal getting kicked and the ball bounced again and its a lot of effort without much recovery time. Freo game was extremely demanding physically so we were always going to struglle to run the game out against Port on a 6 day break.

Now if this happens again in “normal” circumstances, then I would be worried but this time, I can see genuine reason why it would have happened.

Agree ....also factor in the loss of a major midfielder in M Crouch & 1 less in rotations after that tough Freo game

 

[Stiffy_18]

Agree ....also factor in the loss of a major midfielder in M Crouch & 1 less in rotations after that tough Freo game

When combined with a Freo game it is a factor butPort were down one from almost the first contest of the game. Ido agree that losing a major midfielder on top of the effects of Freo game did play a part.

 

[mistylake]

Could be tricky. You can still lead out. But can only do so if 4 in the arc. So that when you leave the arc three remain.

Wouldn't be fixed positions for the individual players. Just need to make sure there are always three players in the arc.

Three might be too hard. Two players could be more workable.







Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Everyone wears those anti barking collars. An adjudicator zaps the offending player bringing them back in line. Easy.

 

[Glenno23]

Or maybe he'd be just as bad?

Point I'm making is... good players don't always make good coaches. We are quick to slam our OWN ex players as coaches, but happy to bring on practically anyone else cause he was a ripper player. There's no logic at all. I'd prefer to take on someone who had runs on the board as an assistant/line coach, rather than green, fresh out of school ones.

I don't want our own players coaching. I want people with external thoughts. I want diversity. I want a plethora of different experiences at other clubs (And yes i am aware that Ben Hart has experience at another club) Other assistants from successful programs, players from successful programs. As i said in my earlier reply. The Hawks track record is unbelievable:

Of course there is no guarantee. But let's look at Alistair Clarkson's Hawks and the people who have come out of there:

Adam Simpson. 2018 flag coach
Damien Hardwick. 2017 flag coach
Luke Beveridge. 2016 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2015 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2014 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2013 flag coach

Sam Mitchell. Part of the 2018 flag as an assistant (There may be others too?)

Other current head coaches from Clarkson (but yet to win a flag):

Bolton
Cameron
Fagan
Dew (as a player)

It's just good IP

 

[jenny61_99]

I don't want our own players coaching. I want people with external thoughts. I want diversity. I want a plethora of different experiences at other clubs (And yes i am aware that Ben Hart has experience at another club) Other assistants from successful programs, players from successful programs. As i said in my earlier reply. The Hawks track record is unbelievable:

Of course there is no guarantee. But let's look at Alistair Clarkson's Hawks and the people who have come out of there:

Adam Simpson. 2018 flag coach
Damien Hardwick. 2017 flag coach
Luke Beveridge. 2016 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2015 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2014 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2013 flag coach

Sam Mitchell. Part of the 2018 flag as an assistant (There may be others too?)

Other current head coaches from Clarkson (but yet to win a flag):

Bolton
Cameron
Fagan
Dew (as a player)

It's just good IP

Roughy didn’t coach with Clarkson, he plays under him. So it’s not quite the same thing. I get going after one of his assistants, absolutely.

 

[Glenno23]

Roughy didn’t coach with Clarkson, he plays under him. So it’s not quite the same thing. I get going after one of his assistants, absolutely.

Neither did Sam Mitchell before he went to WC.....

You can't just go looking for assistants from other clubs either, sometimes you need to take a risk with a player straight out of the system (should they interview well etc) and see how they go. And if you take a risk you may as well take it on a guy who seems like he'd be great for the younger guys and has come out of a system that has had their fingerprints on every flag since 2013.....

 

[NikkiNoo]

Neither did Sam Mitchell before he went to WC.....

You can't just go looking for assistants from other clubs either, sometimes you need to take a risk with a player straight out of the system (should they interview well etc) and see how they go. And if you take a risk you may as well take it on a guy who seems like he'd be great for the younger guys and has come out of a system that has had their fingerprints on every flag since 2013.....

I suspect that Mitchell et al have done coaching apprenticeships like Van Berlo, Goodwin and Rutten did with us. They used to run some AFL training sessions as part of the coaching courses they were undertaking.

 

[jaytex]

It's interesting how this 666 rule has turned out. The opposite of what the afl intended....eg low scores. Before the season began I was concerned that we looked quite slow and had serious problems in the ruck department. I don't think we adapted well to the new rules at all at first but now it seems they have found a good balance.

Spot on.

Godden is quoted in the Advertiser today as saying the team was forced to "tweak" its game plan because "the game wasn't giving us the open field that we thought it was going to give us early in the season".

Admitted they've needed to "right a few wrongs from earlier in the year".

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Spot on.

Godden is quoted in the Advertiser today as saying the team was forced to "tweak" its game plan because "the game wasn't giving us the open field that we thought it was going to give us early in the season".

Admitted they've needed to "right a few wrongs from earlier in the year".

I've only heard Godden speak twice in the media this season (the above plus once about working on the kick:handball ratio for the Crouch brothers) but both times it has been sensible and interesting. Feel like the midfield is in better hands now.

Helps explain how and why CEY has become an important cog for us.

 

[maxlilly]

I've only heard Godden speak twice in the media this season (the above plus once about working on the kick:handball ratio for the Crouch brothers) but both times it has been sensible and interesting. Feel like the midfield is in better hands now.

Helps explain how and why CEY has become an important cog for us.

He has been great to listen to.
He is open about the issues the club is working on. Instead of giving nothing away like so many other coaches.
He mentioned earlier how he was adjusting to being an assistant instead of the head coach.
I think it was a brave move by the club to move Campo to another position and bring in a sanfl coach in to run the midfield

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Spot on.

Godden is quoted in the Advertiser today as saying the team was forced to "tweak" its game plan because "the game wasn't giving us the open field that we thought it was going to give us early in the season".

Admitted they've needed to "right a few wrongs from earlier in the year".

It's a relief to know we have coaches capable of reading where the game is going and not just rigidly sticking to a plan that isn't working.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's a relief to know we have coaches capable of reading where the game is going and not just rigidly sticking to a plan that isn't working.

Bullseye

Both Mattner and Godden seem like straight shooters.

 

[jaytex]

He has been great to listen to.
He is open about the issues the club is working on. Instead of giving nothing away like so many other coaches.
He mentioned earlier how he was adjusting to being an assistant instead of the head coach.
I think it was a brave move by the club to move Campo to another position and bring in a sanfl coach in to run the midfield

Agreed. He talks intelligently and straight - no jargon or flowery words that make you think he's compensating for not knowing what he's doing.

It appears he's enjoying the freedom of this job compared to coaching WWT, which he freely admitted was a much bigger and diverse set of responsibilities.
Seems to be relishing in the opportunity to work closely and intensely with a more targeted section of the playing group.

 

[Tex200]

Spot on.

Godden is quoted in the Advertiser today as saying the team was forced to "tweak" its game plan because "the game wasn't giving us the open field that we thought it was going to give us early in the season".

Admitted they've needed to "right a few wrongs from earlier in the year".

Interesting comments to be sure.

I’d wondered whether we’d started off with something fresh that just took time to bed down, or whether when things were going awry we tried something different.

Looks like that question is answered and I suspect the pain of the North game was our first attempt.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Godden did day that now that we're playing better we will look to "add some layers."

Wants us to score more, move the ball quicker, be more attacking.

 

[Mego Red]

The Crowbar was much better

That was a fantastic podcast. Shame the grand final broke them.

 

[maxlilly]

Agreed. He talks intelligently and straight - no jargon or flowery words that make you think he's compensating for not knowing what he's doing.

It appears he's enjoying the freedom of this job compared to coaching WWT, which he freely admitted was a much bigger and diverse set of responsibilities.
Seems to be relishing in the opportunity to work closely and intensely with a more targeted section of the playing group.

I'm sure he has been a breath of fresh air for the midfielders after listening to Campo for 10 years.
As DABM mentioned, the improvement in CEY game this year is stark.
Incredible what can happen when a coach shows you some faith and trust to play your role.

 

[arrowman]

It’s looks like the coaches thought we could start playing our free wheeling 2017 game plan, at the start of the season, and thought that the new rules would mean higher scores and more free flowing football.(which was indicated in the pre-season). It looks to me that they have realised this is not the case or that our list is no longer suited to this style or it had been found out, and switched to, this tight, contested, defensive, high pressure style in a very short amount of time. The North Melbourne game may, well have been the start of the transition, I remember players stating they had been instructed to go slower.

I could be completely wrong and they may well have been transitioning to this style all preseason, and it’s taken a few games or a few weaker sides for it to start to work.

I'd like to think that our coaches recognised (or learned) that 2017 wasn't going to cut it any more, from at least part way through 2018, if not as part of their planning for 2019 and 666. Of course it's possible that they didn't, and have had to make significant changes early in 2019, but I don't know if it's credible that you can make wholesale / significant changes in a few weeks. I think it's more likely that what we are seeing now is something that was already in the works, just coming together / clicking better.

Either way, I like what we're seeing at the moment. What remains to be seen is if we can go further than grinding out wins, and get a bit of 2017 attack happening when conditions allow it. 2017 as a Plan A may not work in 2019, but sure as heck it'll be handy to be able to turn it on when it suits.

It seems to me, that we are playing the clearances more defensive then earlier in the season. Conceding that the other side may well win them, but we are trying to make sure, they don’t get the ball out in space and instead have to bomb it in and back our defence in.

Absolutely, and I think this is actually one thing that we saw in 2017 also. Not just being defensive at the clearances / contests, but just better positioning and use of numbers. We don't get sucked in to the contest, we send in 1-2 players and the others are well positioned on the outside to either receive the clearance or stop the oppo if they get it. (A poster on the Port board said just that in their game autopsy - that Port players got sucked into the contest and we worked the outside better.)

IMO this is something that has won us games like Freo and Port, perhaps to some extent GCS as well. I don't recall the stats but I think we might have lost or barely broken even in the contested stats / clearances in those games. Of course we need to improve in those areas, but being able negate a disadvantage in something widely regarded as a critical stat is a pretty big thing.

 

[beartoo]

666 I the devil's number and seems to have had a devilish effect on the game so far.

 

[lincsPJ]

Bullseye

Both Mattner and Godden seem like straight shooters.

From speaking to an ex WWT player, he said MG is an excellent communicator. Loved him.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

From speaking to an ex WWT player, he said MG is an excellent communicator. Loved him.

Eagles going backwards after he left too.

 

[John Who]

666 I the devil's number and seems to have had a devilish effect on the game so far.

I personally don’t see much of a change other than tighter/exciting contests in the last few minutes. The 666 rule has hardly changed the game, but more so the coaches are being tighter in their defensive strategies. The better teams are still scoring like most other years a la Cats and Pies.

I think we have been focusing more in our defense this year, no doubt. Our fine-tuning over the recent weeks is a style that is suited for Finals footy. Really looking forward to the next month if we can continue to advance our game style further or whether we regress under the might of the better upcoming teams.

 

[Elite Crow]

Did anyone listen to Sportsday SA with Hart?

I only heard half way through but they played a grab of Riley, assuming Riley Knight saying we changed the way we played to less complicate it with less instructions.

Blight was asking a lot of questions of Hart.

Hart said as part of their normal review after North they decided to get back to basics and concentrate on some core stuff which must include contested footy and the rest would follow, there were less instructions and they allowed the players to just play more on instinct. The leadership group was also involved.

Sounded like we tried to over complicate the gameplan which culminated in that North debacle.

Good to see our coaches acknowledged it and made changes rather than digging their heels in.