No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 4

[Ned Ryerson]

It's the era of being offended by everything, and being able to make a quick buck writing a story or doing an interview to get sympathy from the bleeding hearts. Crowds have dramatically improved in my eyes since the 90's, with the swearing and anti social behaviour no rarity. Usually if there's a ****** in the crowd, they will get called out pretty quick. People just don't know how to handle any remotely negative situation these days besides going online and slamming it there (eg. restaurant reviews etc.)

See I am on the bleeding heart side of things some of the time - but this is seriously demented. Swearing, booing, abusing umpires or opposing players has been par for the course as long as I have been going to the footy (and I am the same age as the author) and I dare say long before that. My grandad tells me stories of attending soccer in Scotland back in the 40s that would make this woman faint.

This is more of the phenomenon of the 'bulldozer parent'. Those who can't bare that a single inconvenience might impact their beloved offspring. I had it at a game a few years ago when at a Lions game in Brissy. Some friends and I were all on the ales and generally having a good time. At quarter time this guy told two of our female friends that they needed to stop swearing. When me and a few of the guys in the group asked why they had to - he said it was because his son was confused that 'ladies were allowed to swear'. So rather than say 'sometimes adults swear at the footy' we had to modify their behaviour because apparently a female swearing was too much of a logical leap for his precious spawn. All of this in a licensed stand.

I had encountered far, far, far worse than this at the footy growing up - yet never swore in front of my parents until I was well into adulthood because they were sensible enough to, you know, set expectations on me and not the hundreds of people around me.

 

[Gralin]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...e-football-and-feel-safe-20190514-p51n4p.html

What an absolute and utter load of tosh this handwringing open letter is. I went to footy games as a kid in the late 80s and early 90s and heard more swearing than I’ve heard at a night out in rowdy pubs. If you choose to sit in the drinking sections of a ground then you choose to hear people swearing and yelling - it’s par for the bloody course.

Violence needs to be stamped out of the crowds - I completely agree. But I’ve never come remotely close to seeing/hearing the kinds of things I did when I was attending NSWRL games as a kid - crowds are comparatively tame as hell these days.

I think we need to incorporate family stands at games because if this woman and her fragile children need to attend the game without passion being displayed - that’s perfectly fine. But those of us who like a bit of passion and noise in the crowd shouldn’t have to lose that because of a few Helen Lovejoys.

People still swear in the dry bay, there isn't a family bay. And there is only one dry bay out of the whole public area, there is one in the AFL reserve, not sure about the MCC

If you want to take your kids to the footy you really have to hope you don't happen to be near a bunch of dick heads

And the chances of that are pretty slim seeing as a lot of people think the whole point of going to the footy is being a dick head.

There should be some kid friendly bays that you can't get into without your kids. If you then choose not to sit there or they sell out then tough.

 

[Milkshaker]

And you’re bitching about things being blown out of proportion ??!!

So 10k is proportionate? Give me a break.

 

[palmomagpie]

This is more of the phenomenon of the 'bulldozer parent'. Those who can't bare that a single inconvenience might impact their beloved offspring. I had it at a game a few years ago when at a Lions game in Brissy. Some friends and I were all on the ales and generally having a good time. At quarter time this guy told two of our female friends that they needed to stop swearing. When me and a few of the guys in the group asked why they had to - he said it was because his son was confused that 'ladies were allowed to swear'. So rather than say 'sometimes adults swear at the footy' we had to modify their behaviour because apparently a female swearing was too much of a logical leap for his precious spawn. All of this in a licensed stand.

I had encountered far, far, far worse than this at the footy growing up - yet never swore in front of my parents until I was well into adulthood because they were sensible enough to, you know, set expectations on me and not the hundreds of people around me.

I 100% agree with this. Parents are protecting/shielding their children too much from reality that they can't cope when something minor goes amiss. Too lazy/scared to teach real lessons to their children so they just chuck them in a bubble and hope they never see or learn bad habits from anyone. I'm far from a perfect parent but feel proud that my 3 year old will hear someone swear, or see a bunch of Norwood and Sturt supporters punching on at a SANFL game, and instead of freaking out and running off, he turned to me and said "they're being naughty aren't they? They go to their room now" . We then walked to another part of the ground, sat down and enjoyed the rest of the game yelling abuse at the umpires together

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

I found the game quite enjoyable to watch, even in the first half when it was close. It was interesting just watching the strategies in play and how each coach/team was adapting to the other.

A fast paced, high scoring game, with lots of highlights is great, but I don't mind the occasional chess-like game. Especially with such a small crowd that isn't full of drunks yelling "just kick it!!" every 10 seconds.

For those of us watching at home we also had the benefit of Hodgey explaining some of the tactics which I found really interesting.

 

[Lotus]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...e-football-and-feel-safe-20190514-p51n4p.html

What an absolute and utter load of tosh this handwringing open letter is. I went to footy games as a kid in the late 80s and early 90s and heard more swearing than I’ve heard at a night out in rowdy pubs. If you choose to sit in the drinking sections of a ground then you choose to hear people swearing and yelling - it’s par for the bloody course.

Violence needs to be stamped out of the crowds - I completely agree. But I’ve never come remotely close to seeing/hearing the kinds of things I did when I was attending NSWRL games as a kid - crowds are comparatively tame as hell these days.

I think we need to incorporate family stands at games because if this woman and her fragile children need to attend the game without passion being displayed - that’s perfectly fine. But those of us who like a bit of passion and noise in the crowd shouldn’t have to lose that because of a few Helen Lovejoys.

The only time I don't feel safe watching the game live is against Essendon. Unless it's our home game I consciously not going to attend the game.

I feel sorry that she felt that way. Instead of abandoning the footy all together, she should consider to become a Hawks members instead. Well behaved, no foul/obscene language, reserved supporters and not attending the game is what we're renowned for . Well we booed some players when they did bad things so I hope she's fine with that.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

People still swear in the dry bay, there isn't a family bay. And there is only one dry bay out of the whole public area, there is one in the AFL reserve, not sure about the MCC

If you want to take your kids to the footy you really have to hope you don't happen to be near a bunch of dick heads

And the chances of that are pretty slim seeing as a lot of people think the whole point of going to the footy is being a dick head.

There should be some kid friendly bays that you can't get into without your kids. If you then choose not to sit there or they sell out then tough.

I'm fully supportive of family zones where certain behaviours would see you ejected. That's perfectly fine. Expecting everyone else to act like librarians at the footy because you raise your kid as some kind of puritan, yeah nah.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

If it’s Shiel then they’re in trouble.

Zerrett for sure

 

[Davo23]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...e-football-and-feel-safe-20190514-p51n4p.html

What an absolute and utter load of tosh this handwringing open letter is. I went to footy games as a kid in the late 80s and early 90s and heard more swearing than I’ve heard at a night out in rowdy pubs. If you choose to sit in the drinking sections of a ground then you choose to hear people swearing and yelling - it’s par for the bloody course.

Violence needs to be stamped out of the crowds - I completely agree. But I’ve never come remotely close to seeing/hearing the kinds of things I did when I was attending NSWRL games as a kid - crowds are comparatively tame as hell these days.

I think we need to incorporate family stands at games because if this woman and her fragile children need to attend the game without passion being displayed - that’s perfectly fine. But those of us who like a bit of passion and noise in the crowd shouldn’t have to lose that because of a few Helen Lovejoys.

That's just the usual Age clickbait.

If you look at The Age website, pretty much every article is clickbait; it's aimed at getting your attention, and invoking your response.
And to keep you coming back.

I'm actually staggered that anyone reads that stuff - it's just rubbish.

.

 

[Gralin]

I'm fully supportive of family zones where certain behaviours would see you ejected. That's perfectly fine. Expecting everyone else to act like librarians at the footy because you raise your kid as some kind of puritan, yeah nah.

Do you have kids Ned?

Wanting to be able to take them to the footy when they are young without having to deal with drunk aggressive bogan's going off chops is hardly puritanical.

If you've got members seats and you sit in the same spot every week and it's a family friendly location great, other than that you're choices at the footy are really limited.

Do you think swearing, getting drunk and fighting or being aggressive around children is acceptable behaviour? If not, then why should the footy get a free pass? It's not over 18s, and they allow a lot of things at the footy where kids are that they wouldn't at a pub or other venue

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That's just the usual Age clickbait.

If you look at The Age website, pretty much every article is clickbait; it's aimed at getting your attention, and invoking your response.
And to keep you coming back.

I'm actually staggered that anyone reads that stuff - it's just rubbish.

.

The quality certainly has been dipping - particularly when Fairfax started retrenching good journos. It's gone off a cliff since the 9 takeover and I was pretty happy to cancel my subscription shortly thereafter.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Do you have kids Ned?

Wanting to be able to take them to the footy when they are young without having to deal with drunk aggressive bogan's going off chops is hardly puritanical.

If you've got members seats and you sit in the same spot every week and it's a family friendly location great, other than that you're choices at the footy are really limited.

Do you think swearing, getting drunk and fighting or being aggressive around children is acceptable behaviour? If not, then why should the footy get a free pass? It's not over 18s, and they allow a lot of things at the footy where kids are that they wouldn't at a pub or other venue

I don't have kids - however that doesn't mean I don't have rights of my own much as society tries to dictate otherwise. I do remember being a kid at the footy though and not being remotely phased by the swearing, aggression directed at opposition players and referees (rugby league upbringing). This is in the days of the hill in rugby league where you sat on the grass, sat with the loudest and most boorish fans out there while they polished off tins one after another. It was hardly a sanitised environment.

Now I am hardly aggressive at the footy these days - I may drop the occasional swear word when bemoaning the odd umpiring call I disagree with but that is about it. However - I bloody love the loud, vocal and maybe sometimes boorish nature of the footy. If I had kids I would certainly be happy to take them into this atmosphere because it is what I grew up with and I loved going to the footy as a kid.

I completely respect some might not like this which is why I am fully supportive of designated family zones/stands where drinks don't get served and there is an expectation that over the top behaviour isn't tolerated. However I can't agree with having the event be completely sanitised.

 

[Hawkie_McHawkHawk]

Do you have kids Ned?

Wanting to be able to take them to the footy when they are young without having to deal with drunk aggressive bogan's going off chops is hardly puritanical.

If you've got members seats and you sit in the same spot every week and it's a family friendly location great, other than that you're choices at the footy are really limited.

Do you think swearing, getting drunk and fighting or being aggressive around children is acceptable behaviour? If not, then why should the footy get a free pass? It's not over 18s, and they allow a lot of things at the footy where kids are that they wouldn't at a pub or other venue

As children we went to the footy, you dealt with it, I dealt with it. We survived, no harm done. Why must we pad every wall in society? Children will learn one way or another that life isn’t exactly what they see on their iPads day in day out, the sooner they do the better chance they have of adapting to the real world.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

People still swear in the dry bay, there isn't a family bay. And there is only one dry bay out of the whole public area, there is one in the AFL reserve, not sure about the MCC

If you want to take your kids to the footy you really have to hope you don't happen to be near a bunch of dick heads

And the chances of that are pretty slim seeing as a lot of people think the whole point of going to the footy is being a dick head.

There should be some kid friendly bays that you can't get into without your kids. If you then choose not to sit there or they sell out then tough.

There are still plenty of "dickheads" that take their kids to the footy, sadly...

 

[Gralin]

I don't have kids - however that doesn't mean I don't have rights of my own much as society tries to dictate otherwise. I do remember being a kid at the footy though and not being remotely phased by the swearing, aggression directed at opposition players and referees (rugby league upbringing). This is in the days of the hill in rugby league where you sat on the grass, sat with the loudest and most boorish fans out there while they polished off tins one after another. It was hardly a sanitised environment.

Now I am hardly aggressive at the footy these days - I may drop the occasional swear word when bemoaning the odd umpiring call I disagree with but that is about it. However - I bloody love the loud, vocal and maybe sometimes boorish nature of the footy. If I had kids I would certainly be happy to take them into this atmosphere because it is what I grew up with and I loved going to the footy as a kid.

I completely respect some might not like this which is why I am fully supportive of designated family zones/stands where drinks don't get served and there is an expectation that over the top behaviour isn't tolerated. However I can't agree with having the event be completely sanitised.

I was asking about kids to see whether your views were coming as a parent or not, always interesting when the discussion turns to helicopter parents etc

Saying we put up with it as kids and we turned out fine to me isn't a good argument for something. Lots of things that happened when we were kids aren't considered acceptable today. My point was that there are no family bays at the footy, that there are 2-3 dry bays at the MCG and I haven't checked Marvel recently for this.

If they catered better for this you might find articles like that don't get written. Or if they do the author could be asked why they didn't sit in one of the family bays.

All of that said, there is a bunch of shitty behaviour that happens at the footy that people celebrate, then wonder why there are punch ups happening.

The cheering is great, the tribalism has it's place, a bit of swearing and emotion is fine, but for some it's an excuse to be a complete tool and acting like that anywhere else would get them thrown out.

We don't need a bunch of drunk idiots screaming abuse, being aggressive and generally acting like cave men for the footy to have atmosphere or passion.

As children we went to the footy, you dealt with it, I dealt with it. We survived, no harm done. Why must we pad every wall in society? Children will learn one way or another that life isn’t exactly what they see on their iPads day in day out, the sooner they do the better chance they have of adapting to the real world.

I mean sure, you could look at it that way. You could also look at it as people being less accepting of shitty behaviour and saying that exposing kids to it at a young age is a good way of telling them that acting like that is what adults do and is normal

There are still plenty of "dickheads" that take their kids to the footy, sadly...

That there are mate, sat across the isle from a few at the Hawks v Dees game.

 

[Brishawk]

If kids take on behaviour that is normalised at the footy i.e. drunkenness, abusive language and fighting, then the only remedy available to eliminate the behaviour in the long run is to quarantine children from the behaviour. This can happen by providing family friendly zones or parents not taking their kids to the footy.

You can’t argue both that exposure to this kind of behaviour has no impact on kids and use the reason that ‘I was exposed to it and had no effect’ unless you can be certain that exposure to this behaviour actually had no influence on your willingness to accept the behaviour. I’d suggest it’s exposure to and acceptance of this behaviour are correlated although obviously some exceptions always apply to human psychology.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Crowd behaviour has never been an issue for me. What's turning me off is the crap that goes along with the game; bad umpiring/rules, 'fan experience', crappy timeslots, the AFL lecturing me on issues etc. Yet another thing that the AFL can focus on to deflect from the state of the game.

One thing I will never understand is why parents take very small children to the game. I have noticed on several occasions toddlers and kids under 10 getting totally bored. Take them if they are interested by all means but not if they are going to cry and whinge all the time, what's the point? I actually never went to a game until I was about 12, was not interested before then and my parents had better things to do than drag me to a footy match I wasn't interested in!

 

[Bugs1977]

Crowd behaviour has never been an issue for me. What's turning me off is the crap that goes along with the game; bad umpiring/rules, 'fan experience', crappy timeslots, the AFL lecturing me on issues etc. Yet another thing that the AFL can focus on to deflect from the state of the game.

One thing I will never understand is why parents take very small children to the game. I have noticed on several occasions toddlers and kids under 10 getting totally bored. Take them if they are interested by all means but not if they are going to cry and whinge all the time, what's the point? I actually never went to a game until I was about 12, was not interested before then and my parents had better things to do than drag me to a footy match I wasn't interested in!

AFL definitely needs to look in house first IMO and fix the state of the game (rules etc) which has made it absolutely impossible for umpires to get things right. Speaking of rules, how would everyone feel if the AFL decided to drop the whole 6-6-6 thing? I found last seasons games so much more enjoyable to watch.

 

[Brishawk]

AFL definitely needs to look in house first IMO and fix the state of the game (rules etc) which has made it absolutely impossible for umpires to get things right. Speaking of rules, how would everyone feel if the AFL decided to drop the whole 6-6-6 thing? I found last seasons games so much more enjoyable to watch.

Too early to make a call on 6-6-6. For mine it’s main impact is that teams good at centre clearances have an advantage but the game is otherwise not much changed.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Not remotely going to deny that the AFL botched almost every bit of this - that’s a given these days. I’ll always support fining players who openly insult umpires - even if the comment is funny. I don’t think expecting the players to respect the match officials is asking much. Players can sledge each other until the cows come home - that’s part and parcel of the game. I’m sure some players and umpires have some healthy banter at times too. But Rampe was being a campaigner and is getting fined for it and I’ve got no qualms.

This is a fine position, but if you take it then we lose Hodge's "Gotta look after f'ing Gaz" comment to the umpire. I'd rather they just let it go. It was a half-assed insult anyways.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

This is a fine position, but if you take it then we lose Hodge's "Gotta look after f'ing Gaz" comment to the umpire. I'd rather they just let it go. It was a half-assed insult anyways.

To me that's banter as opposed to a direct insult.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Would any of this be an issue (comments to umpires) if the umps weren't mic-ed up?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Would any of this be an issue (comments to umpires) if the umps weren't mic-ed up?

Probably not - however I like them being part of the broadcast. Helps give you an understanding of what their rationale is and they take my ears off of BT's voice.

 

[Gralin]

Would any of this be an issue (comments to umpires) if the umps weren't mic-ed up?

probably only if you were filmed aggressively abusing the ump with words easily lip read like Paddy did a while ago

 

[Changa10]

I'm fully supportive of family zones where certain behaviours would see you ejected. That's perfectly fine. Expecting everyone else to act like librarians at the footy because you raise your kid as some kind of puritan, yeah nah.

What level of swearing should be acceptable? I swear like a trooper to be fair, but there is one word that starts with C that I think is a step too far in public such as at the footy. I hate the word. Couldn't give a if people want to use or f--- etc, but if people around me are using the C word, I usually ask them not to, particularly if there are young kids around.

To date, everyone has understood that word is somewhat unaccepted and refrained from using it after being asked to stop. However, I guess it is the way people are asked/told that can cause conflict.