List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

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The_Snake26

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Salary cap squeeze on at Collingwood - Tom Phillips is uncontracted , could pick him up because we could offer him more money than the Magpies - Taylor Adams as well.

Any player that improves our starting 22 is worth exploring.
Adams is an upgrade on dunstan so that’s a yes.
Phillips is an upgrade on his brother, based on team selected on the weekend. So that’s a yes

Problem is we have no currency. Collingwood won’t want any of our players and we don’t have any draft picks in the range of these 2. Next years second for Phillips may be in the ball park. But we have nothing for Adams.
They’re also both in the age bracket that pies wouldn’t want to get rid of. Pendles, beams and Sidebottom all getting on.

Spitballing a trade:
Stuv and Paddy to Geelong
For (currently) pick 18 and next years 1st.

Or pick 18 + one of cockatoo/Fogarty

Obviously depends on where Geelong finish this year and where they see themselves finishing next year. They’re right in the premiership window.

Then send 18 and next years 2nd for Phillips and Adams and we’ll do Collingwood a favour taking their salaries off their books.

Heavily weighted in our favour but Geelong get Stuv to give them another player for a crack at the flag. Gain Paddy as steak knives who could make it but unlikely. Lose unknown draft picks
Collingwood lose a couple of best 22 but get 1st rounder and cap space to resign Grundy
 
The club was blindsided by the AFL raising the TPP a few seasons ago so that GWS could re-sign a few key players (end of Kelly's 1st contract IIRC).

Norf & us had banked our cap space so we could go shopping then HQ made the arbitrary decision (shock horror) to increase the cap. All of a sudden our war chest was worth a lot less that we had planned it to be. Richmond re-signed Dusty, Freo did the same with Fyfe and we were left to sign Nate Brown.

The plan was very justified until the rug was pulled from under our feet.

blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
 

majortinkle

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blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
It was more the implementation method that screwed us.

I think it was widely assumed that all contracts would be increased by the tpp increase until renegotiated - so no change to relative cap space. A fair number of teams structured their contracts so would automatically kick in based on that assumption. Those teams that didn't though basically got a one year free hit of cash that gave them a chance to at least defer pain if not restructure to avoid altogether.

The players union (through some potentially majorly conflicted negotiators/player reps) backed down from treating all their members equally - presumably to more easily get the headline number/capability that they wanted.
 
It was more the implementation method that screwed us.

I think it was widely assumed that all contracts would be increased by the tpp increase until renegotiated - so no change to relative cap space. A fair number of teams structured their contracts so would automatically kick in based on that assumption. Those teams that didn't though basically got a one year free hit of cash that gave them a chance to at least defer pain if not restructure to avoid altogether.

The players union (through some potentially majorly conflicted negotiators/player reps) backed down from treating all their members equally - presumably to more easily get the headline number/capability that they wanted.

plenty of clubs planned for it. for example port adelaide were on record stating they planned for it going up. GWS, WCE and the Pies as well.

we have no one to blame but our selves. we got the call wrong.
 

St Kilda Death

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Are we still talking about letting stuv go to Geelong?
West coast need to give up something big to get Kelly off them you would think.
Would Shuey be interested in getting back to vic.?

Steven to Geelong
Kelly to west coast
Shuey to st.kilda.
 
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And don’t forget another issure is our forwards are almost always out numbered, even worse, because our ball movement is slow, our forward line is flooded with opposition players.. good luck pin point any forwards, any small margin for error will result in a rebound.
We've made a clear move to slow down our ball movement this year, it's been the biggest change to our game plan. 5 weeks in we already won as many games as we did last year.

Are you suggesting we go back to the way we played last year and try and move the ball faster again?
 
Any player that improves our starting 22 is worth exploring.
Adams is an upgrade on dunstan so that’s a yes.
Phillips is an upgrade on his brother, based on team selected on the weekend. So that’s a yes

Problem is we have no currency. Collingwood won’t want any of our players and we don’t have any draft picks in the range of these 2. Next years second for Phillips may be in the ball park. But we have nothing for Adams.
They’re also both in the age bracket that pies wouldn’t want to get rid of. Pendles, beams and Sidebottom all getting on.

Spitballing a trade:
Stuv and Paddy to Geelong
For (currently) pick 18 and next years 1st.


Or pick 18 + one of cockatoo/Fogarty

Obviously depends on where Geelong finish this year and where they see themselves finishing next year. They’re right in the premiership window.

Then send 18 and next years 2nd for Phillips and Adams and we’ll do Collingwood a favour taking their salaries off their books.

Heavily weighted in our favour but Geelong get Stuv to give them another player for a crack at the flag. Gain Paddy as steak knives who could make it but unlikely. Lose unknown draft picks
Collingwood lose a couple of best 22 but get 1st rounder and cap space to resign Grundy

I like your positivity but that's never going to happen , agree that an player upgrade is only going to help, as much as im not Phillips biggest fan , his stats are on par if not slightly better than his brothers at the same age so id say we should stick with Ed
 

VDS66

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blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
Not sure if blinsided but the timing was appallingly sadly.

Allowed GWS to retain players, more so than our ability to spend large.
 
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Im not even going to consider Coniglio or any other genuine A graders in our trade plans. They wont come so there's no point getting our hopes up.

Unfortunately, until we improve, and give those types of players a reason to come, we'll have to make do with those a level below. For me id be focussing all our efforts on getting Jack Martin. A bit under the radar here and he can get even better.

Im not really a fan of Zak Jones, id much rather we get the better Crouch brother from Adelaide to add much needed grunt to our midfield. Crows will likely pickup Rowell or Anderson in the draft to add to a pretty deep midfield group, so Crouch is gettable imo. And he wont cost the world.
 

MrFoster

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We've made a clear move to slow down our ball movement this year, it's been the biggest change to our game plan. 5 weeks in we already won as many games as we did last year.

Are you suggesting we go back to the way we played last year and try and move the ball faster again?
No, last year’s game plan was idiotic.. asking players who already have suspect disposals to play on at all costs and cough it up under pressure.. This year is a complete reversal, the default route forward has been long bombs down the line which often amounts to 50/50 or nothing.. the times that we won are when our pressure games are on top against lowly teams..

Last week for example, when west coast transition the ball from the backline, despite our zone/pressure, they were able to spot up leading players along the boundary line and use an extra number to transition the ball to their 50 with ease.

Compare to when we have the ball in the backline, all of our forwards have pushed up anticipate the long bomb, creating congestion, so there is no space to lead to or run the ball from the backline.. the only choice is long bomb to half back, ball up, and we reset again.. we basically give the opposition a chance at every possesion, long bomb to a pack is 50/50 at best.

What I’m suggesting is rather than moving from one extreme game plan (play on at all cost) to another (long bombs).. both are low percentage plays if our forwards are continually being out numbered, no matter how hard they compete and pressure, it’s going to be an uphill battle..

The alternative is to set up with a balance attack/defence.. teach the players to be smart about it.. use hands to get through a zone, plan to have one on ones at the front half, move the ball quickly, long bomb only to one on ones. When our forward line is flooded, slow it down and keep possesion.. think we tried it last week, that’s why Philips was brought in.. he can link up plays and hit short targets. We just need more of it.
 
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blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.

Planned for it to increase but not to go up as much as it did.

That’s the facts, not fussed whether you believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

The_Snake26

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Im not even going to consider Coniglio or any other genuine A graders in our trade plans. They wont come so there's no point getting our hopes up.

Unfortunately, until we improve, and give those types of players a reason to come, we'll have to make do with those a level below. For me id be focussing all our efforts on getting Jack Martin. A bit under the radar here and he can get even better.

Im not really a fan of Zak Jones, id much rather we get the better Crouch brother from Adelaide to add much needed grunt to our midfield. Crows will likely pickup Rowell or Anderson in the draft to add to a pretty deep midfield group, so Crouch is gettable imo. And he wont cost the world.

Zak Jones would be best 22 so he’s worth considering. But at the price that Sydney would want, no way should we deal.

Neither of the crouch brothers is gettable. Why would Adelaide part with their 1st or 2nd best midfielder? Greenwood is gettable and would be worth a look.
To give it a little perspective: in 2004, arguably the strongest midfield we’ve ever had. We had Hayes, Harvey, Thompson, Ball & Dal Santo. Now let’s say Carlton did a dumbass trade with us that year and we had pick 1. Would you trade any of those players just because we were going to draft Deledio at 1?

We should definitely be having a crack at Martin tho
 
Zak Jones would be best 22 so he’s worth considering. But at the price that Sydney would want, no way should we deal.

Neither of the crouch brothers is gettable. Why would Adelaide part with their 1st or 2nd best midfielder? Greenwood is gettable and would be worth a look.
To give it a little perspective: in 2004, arguably the strongest midfield we’ve ever had. We had Hayes, Harvey, Thompson, Ball & Dal Santo. Now let’s say Carlton did a dumbass trade with us that year and we had pick 1. Would you trade any of those players just because we were going to draft Deledio at 1?

We should definitely be having a crack at Martin tho


I like Jack Martin but he's not on the needs list to me. We really need some inside grunt.
 
Are we still talking about letting stuv go to Geelong?
West coast need to give up something big to get Kelly off them you would think.
Would Shuey be interested in getting back to vic.?

Steven to Geelong
Kelly to west coast
Shuey to st.kilda.


Geelong lose
West Coast Win
Saints Win
 

St Kilda Death

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Geelong lose
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Saints Win
Fair call.
Steven has more runs on the board than Kelly, but no doubt Kelly has a few more years to give.
Should not the cats be happy to bring home the boy from Lorne who they have coveted for many years and also help Kelly get to his prefered destination in the process?
What if we throw in a late 2nd to Geelong?
 
Fair call.
Steven has more runs on the board than Kelly, but no doubt Kelly has a few more years to give.
Should not the cats be happy to bring home the boy from Lorne who they have coveted for many years and also help Kelly get to his prefered destination in the process?
What if we throw in a late 2nd to Geelong?


Stuv is a point of difference with his pace too. I would think Stuv for Shuey is about right, Shuey is only a year younger than Stuv. Kelly is only wanting home and he's a way to get an elite player for losing an elite player who only wants to go to WA. If they don't win the premiership this year Geelong might decide to get Stuv and go all out.
 

luca77

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Stuv is a point of difference with his pace too. I would think Stuv for Shuey is about right, Shuey is only a year younger than Stuv. Kelly is only wanting home and he's a way to get an elite player for losing an elite player who only wants to go to WA. If they don't win the premiership this year Geelong might decide to get Stuv and go all out.
You should prefix that 2nd sentence with "all things being equal" or something like that. Because they're not. I don't know what Shuey's up to, but Stuv is at home watching old M.A.S.H reruns.
 

Gosaints12

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Im not even going to consider Coniglio or any other genuine A graders in our trade plans. They wont come so there's no point getting our hopes up.

Unfortunately, until we improve, and give those types of players a reason to come, we'll have to make do with those a level below. For me id be focussing all our efforts on getting Jack Martin. A bit under the radar here and he can get even better.

Im not really a fan of Zak Jones, id much rather we get the better Crouch brother from Adelaide to add much needed grunt to our midfield. Crows will likely pickup Rowell or Anderson in the draft to add to a pretty deep midfield group, so Crouch is gettable imo. And he wont cost the world.

Which one Matt or Brad?
 

St Kilda Death

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Shuey is 29 not the answer back to the draft.
Shuey is the same age as Steven.
If we are going to lose our best onballer, I'd prefer to replace him now than go to the draft. How's Clark and coff going this year? Ones that hit the ground running are few and really throw a dart to find one
 

bergholt

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Its close, but i think Brad is the better player. Wins the ball, has great speed through the middle, massive tackler/pressure. Cleaner and more damaging with his disposals. Question marks on his body though, he's had some pretty serious injuries.

Why would either of them leave Adelaide? And why would the club let them go?
 
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Why would either of them leave Adelaide? And why would the club let them go?

I remember last year Brad's name kept coming up in trade rumours. There was talk he was frustrated with management of his injuries and was open to a fresh start. They didnt shut down the rumours for awhile, which led to a few journos concluding that he wanted to leave, but Adelaide wouldn't let him. He's contracted till 2020 then he becomes a FA.

Yes its doubtful the crows will let him go. But so far this year his form has been patchy, and if greenwood keeps up the good form, crows get Carltons pick 1 in the draft, maybe they'd be more inclined to trade him now before possibly losing him to FA next year. Just spitballing mate, i was thinking what type of player could we realistically target. And thats who popped into my mind.
 
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