Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Superkoops]

Outside out the top 5, first rounders are extremely overrated.

More likely outside the top 7.

But Willotree’s point was not giving away two 1st rounders in one trade period. The Hawks are going to find themselves in a hole sooner or later due to not having 1st round picks the past few years.

I’d swap (for Tim Kelly) one single pick around 8-12 which will likely be our first pick in 2019. But nothing more. If it is to cost more then we walk away.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tonygeeks]

Yes it has. In 2016, before the trades we won 4 games!

Now picture Freo running out next week without Hamling, Hill, Wilson, Matera, Lobb, Conca, Hogan, Ryan and Brayshaw.

Blind Freddy can see they've done well.

Well yeah but we would have a lot of young players from the picks we used though so it's not quite as simple as that is it ?

It a fair question to wonder if we have topped up to get competitive too quickly but potentially hurt our long term prospects if our kids don't turn out as good as we hope we could be a pretty average side again in a couple of years

You have to screw things up pretty bad to be totally pus in a 2 team footy mad state like WA and our list managers acomplished that one pretty well which was kind of the point of my post anyway

 

[Taylor]

Well yeah but we would have a lot of young players from the picks we used though so it's not quite as simple as that is it ?

It a fair question to wonder if we have topped up to get competitive too quickly but potentially hurt our long term prospects if our kids don't turn out as good as we hope we could be a pretty average side again in a couple of years

You have to screw things up pretty bad to be totally pus in a 2 team footy mad state like WA and our list managers acomplished that one pretty well which was kind of the point of my post anyway

I disagree, I think you have a much higher standard for what counts as "screwing things up pretty bad" when you're in a two team footy mad town. Our last few years have been objectively poor, even mentioned that it's been near rock bottom, meanwhile we win eight games twice and four games once.

This is in a competition where Carlton exists. We won 17 season games in 2015, since then:
Fremantle 4 8 8 4 = 24 from 74 (32.4%)
Gold Coast 6 6 4 3 = 19 from 74 (25.7%)
Brisbane 3 5 5 5 = 18 from 74 (24.3%)
Carlton 7 6 2 1 = 16 from 74 (21.6%)

 

[tonygeeks]

I disagree, I think you have a much higher standard for what counts as "screwing things up pretty bad" when you're in a two team footy mad town. Our last few years have been objectively poor, even mentioned that it's been near rock bottom, meanwhile we win eight games twice and four games once.

This is in a competition where Carlton exists. We won 17 season games in 2015, since then:
Fremantle 4 8 8 4 = 24 from 74 (32.4%)
Gold Coast 6 6 4 3 = 19 from 74 (25.7%)
Brisbane 3 5 5 5 = 18 from 74 (24.3%)
Carlton 7 6 2 1 = 16 from 74 (21.6%)

Seriously ? If Freo was run the way it is and was a Melbourne club

Well we wouldn't even be a Melbourne club anymore and would have been shipped off to tassie or the GC years ago

 

[Taylor]

Seriously ? If Freo was run the way it is and was a Melbourne club

Well we wouldn't even be a Melbourne club anymore and would have been shipped off to tassie or the GC years ago

Yes, seriously. The AFL couldn't ship any of their actually broke Melbourne clubs to Gold Coast or Tasmania, Fremantle has a financial strength that all but a few of the Melbourne clubs would trade for in a heartbeat.

Fremantle FC is strong off field and our performances on field have been far stronger than you would think given the dialogue about the club here and the media.

Three seasons have passed since we finished top of the ladder. In that time we won more games that sides who have been given a pass for their rebuilds, they are full of young talent, it's going places etc.

Fremantle's allowance is far, far smaller than the rest of the league because we live in a football mad two team town. I expect Port Adelaide get a similar pressure on their club and coach when they don't do as well and the other side does.

 

[Puregold]

Andrew well in front in my books

View attachment 674321

Sub rule still in play in 2015. Probably impacted on gus

 

[Scham]

I disagree, I think you have a much higher standard for what counts as "screwing things up pretty bad" when you're in a two team footy mad town. Our last few years have been objectively poor, even mentioned that it's been near rock bottom, meanwhile we win eight games twice and four games once.

This is in a competition where Carlton exists. We won 17 season games in 2015, since then:
Fremantle 4 8 8 4 = 24 from 74 (32.4%)
Gold Coast 6 6 4 3 = 19 from 74 (25.7%)
Brisbane 3 5 5 5 = 18 from 74 (24.3%)
Carlton 7 6 2 1 = 16 from 74 (21.6%)

Are they really the sides that we should be benchmarking ourselves against?

 

[Taylor]

Are they really the sides that we should be benchmarking ourselves against?

When we are talking like Freo is in a hole it's important to remember how much deeper it goes.

 

[Taylor]

Sub rule still in play in 2015. Probably impacted on gus

Round 1, subbed out in the fourth
Round 2, came on as concussion sub in 3rd then started 4th on
Round 3, came on in the second quarter
Round 4 to 13 - no vest
Round 14, subbed off for concussion
Round 15 to 21, 23 - no vest.

Four of twenty one games impacted.

 

[WilloTree]

Well yeah but we would have a lot of young players from the picks we used though so it's not quite as simple as that is it ?

It a fair question to wonder if we have topped up to get competitive too quickly but potentially hurt our long term prospects if our kids don't turn out as good as we hope we could be a pretty average side again in a couple of years

You have to screw things up pretty bad to be totally pus in a 2 team footy mad state like WA and our list managers acomplished that one pretty well which was kind of the point of my post anyway

Oh, I get your point. Freo have grossly underachieved in its 25 years given its advantages. I'm still generally pleased with our trades over the past 3 years. I'm not saying our list management overall has been top notch, just that they seem to have made some good moves at the trade table - particularly trading down of picks in 2018 and 2016, but knowing when to hold 'em in 2017.

In 2018 we traded out pick 6 (which Saints took Ben King with) for 11 23 30 and 49. All those picks were on-traded or live traded in deals to get Lobb, Hogan, Sturt, Valente and Shultz.
In 2016 we traded out pick 3 (which Bris took Hugh McCluggage with) for McCarthy, 7(Logue), 34 (Darcy) and 72 (Ryan).

Our list has been a mess for a while. There are a number of reasons for this, most predominantly 3 issues have historically held us back:
1. Releasing young talent for minimal return (Bell, McFee, Clement etc) and 'selling the farm' to get players in (Bell, Carr, Hedland, Craod etc)
2. Refusal to draft tall forwards (and to a lesser extent tall defenders) when Pav was in his late 20s and develop them.
3. Simpson, Pitt, Morobito, Sheridan, Weller - all 1st Round Mids no longer at the club.

But, I am confident the bad old days are behind us. Well, that was until I heard we'd re-entered the race for Kelly. This is genuinely worrying. Where's our pride?

 

[TheMcManusNose]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...d/news-story/86eacdc42138c638aee8c53a6f3d77a0

Interesting article re: kicking inside 50. We're roughly middle-bottom of the pack for retaining the ball when kicking inside 50.

Here's what caught my eye: Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst kick inside 50 in the competition. Of his 30 kicks inside 50 we have retained posession of 5 of them. 5. That's not even mark rate that's just pure next possession.

Now it is still relatively early in the season numbers wise, 30 isn't a large sample to be making a judgement on. For example you see McCluggage there who is a better kick than Langdon IMO. But it passes the eye test - we know he sprays it. Even his handballs are loopy and prone to turnover. Compare it to B.Hill. Again I wish we could actually access these stats because you could bump it up to include last year.

I'd actually be inclined to let him go should a Vic team offer a decent package for him. Given we now have now hitched our wagon to Hogan as a KPF, who is more of a JJK lead-up style forward than anything else.

 

[tonygeeks]

Yes, seriously. The AFL couldn't ship any of their actually broke Melbourne clubs to Gold Coast or Tasmania, Fremantle has a financial strength that all but a few of the Melbourne clubs would trade for in a heartbeat.

Fremantle FC is strong off field and our performances on field have been far stronger than you would think given the dialogue about the club here and the media.

Three seasons have passed since we finished top of the ladder. In that time we won more games that sides who have been given a pass for their rebuilds, they are full of young talent, it's going places etc.

Fremantle's allowance is far, far smaller than the rest of the league because we live in a football mad two team town. I expect Port Adelaide get a similar pressure on their club and coach when they don't do as well and the other side does.

All that is fine apart from the financial stuff , I think you would see a big difference if we were competing in a saturated market like Melbourne


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joao]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...d/news-story/86eacdc42138c638aee8c53a6f3d77a0

Interesting article re: kicking inside 50. We're roughly middle-bottom of the pack for retaining the ball when kicking inside 50.

Here's what caught my eye: Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst kick inside 50 in the competition. Of his 30 kicks inside 50 we have retained posession of 5 of them. 5. That's not even mark rate that's just pure next possession.

Now it is still relatively early in the season numbers wise, 30 isn't a large sample to be making a judgement on. For example you see McCluggage there who is a better kick than Langdon IMO. But it passes the eye test - we know he sprays it. Even his handballs are loopy and prone to turnover. Compare it to B.Hill. Again I wish we could actually access these stats because you could bump it up to include last year.

I'd actually be inclined to let him go should a Vic team offer a decent package for him. Given we now have now hitched our wagon to Hogan as a KPF, who is more of a JJK lead-up style forward than anything else.

I'm also comfortable with Langdon leaving for a pick inside 20 if we think that Sturt/Henry/Bewley can step up. However, whilst he may not be great kicking inside 50, he does seem a good kick for goal and is pretty good defensively.

 

[WilloTree]

Are they really the sides that we should be benchmarking ourselves against?

Yeah, it's pretty dreadful when you're in with 2 teams from a rugby state and a basket case.

 

[tonygeeks]

Oh, I get your point. Freo have grossly underachieved in its 25 years given its advantages. I'm still generally pleased with our trades over the past 3 years. I'm not saying our list management overall has been top notch, just that they seem to have made some good moves at the trade table - particularly trading down of picks in 2018 and 2016, but knowing when to hold 'em in 2017.

In 2018 we traded out pick 6 (which Saints took Ben King with) for 11 23 30 and 49. All those picks were on-traded or live traded in deals to get Lobb, Hogan, Sturt, Valente and Shultz.
In 2016 we traded out pick 3 (which Bris took Hugh McCluggage with) for McCarthy, 7(Logue), 34 (Darcy) and 72 (Ryan).

Our list has been a mess for a while. There are a number of reasons for this, most predominantly 3 issues have historically held us back:
1. Releasing young talent for minimal return (Bell, McFee, Clement etc) and 'selling the farm' to get players in (Bell, Carr, Hedland, Craod etc)
2. Refusal to draft tall forwards (and to a lesser extent tall defenders) when Pav was in his late 20s and develop them.
3. Simpson, Pitt, Morobito, Sheridan, Weller - all 1st Round Mids no longer at the club.

But, I am confident the bad old days are behind us. Well, that was until I heard we'd re-entered the race for Kelly. This is genuinely worrying. Where's our pride?

Yeah , welcome to footy 2020 i suppose with the Kelly business I don’t like it either
I agree drafting and trading is better but It doesn’t really matter if it’s better you have to be better than everyone else
Hopefully this Aldi guy is some sort of list management sevengali


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[malpaso]

Yeah, it's pretty dreadful when you're in with 2 teams from a rugby state and a basket case.

Yeah but look at the picks and concessions that two of those teams have had.

 

[eastfreo75]

More likely outside the top 7.

But Willotree’s point was not giving away two 1st rounders in one trade period. The Hawks are going to find themselves in a hole sooner or later due to not having 1st round picks the past few years.

I’d swap (for Tim Kelly) one single pick around 8-12 which will likely be our first pick in 2019. But nothing more. If it is to cost more then we walk away.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Go to https://www.draftguru.com.au/analysis/pick-value-comparison

Picks 6-10 average 120 games and it takes 6.2 picks to get 1 All Australian.

Remember, it takes a player at least 30-50 games to start playing well.

So you get only 70-90 games of high standard from a pick 6-10.

 

[Tonga Bob]

Oh, I get your point. Freo have grossly underachieved in its 25 years given its advantages.

just out of interest, what are the advantages that Freo have had in your opinion?

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I'm also comfortable with Langdon leaving for a pick inside 20 if we think that Sturt/Henry/Bewley can step up. However, whilst he may not be great kicking inside 50, he does seem a good kick for goal and is pretty good defensively.

Even Duman I think is a good option for a wing. One of the better kicks on our team.

 

[WilloTree]

I'm not saying he isn't a hard worker, but I don't think OReilly is going anywhere currently but back to WAFL reserves TBH.

If we wanted to invent a backman from a forward we will do it with players already on the list (Eg Cox, Dixon or Meek).

Haggers reporting this morning Freo in discussions with him. Maybe I'm not so far left-field as I thought!

 

[G Mus]

Haggers reporting this morning Freo in discussions with him. Maybe I'm not so far left-field as I thought!

More likely he read your post

 

[blue shark]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...d/news-story/86eacdc42138c638aee8c53a6f3d77a0

Interesting article re: kicking inside 50. We're roughly middle-bottom of the pack for retaining the ball when kicking inside 50.

Here's what caught my eye: Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst kick inside 50 in the competition. Of his 30 kicks inside 50 we have retained posession of 5 of them. 5. That's not even mark rate that's just pure next possession.

Now it is still relatively early in the season numbers wise, 30 isn't a large sample to be making a judgement on. For example you see McCluggage there who is a better kick than Langdon IMO. But it passes the eye test - we know he sprays it. Even his handballs are loopy and prone to turnover. Compare it to B.Hill. Again I wish we could actually access these stats because you could bump it up to include last year.

I'd actually be inclined to let him go should a Vic team offer a decent package for him. Given we now have now hitched our wagon to Hogan as a KPF, who is more of a JJK lead-up style forward than anything else.

Langdon could be played like Stephenson? Find another winger with better skills. Duman, Hughes?

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Langdon could be played like Stephenson? Find another winger with better skills. Duman, Hughes?

Could be. It is hard to say really because I think it's something that would never happen barring complete coaching overhaul. I think there's a bit of a meta in AFL where teams are more invested in territory - metres gained - than necessarily retaining posession. I mean Langdon can obviously find the ball and run with it and I don't think Ross would really look at changing that role with a bloke who's averaging 26 and a few hundred metres gained per game (tbh I don't think really any current AFL coaches would except maybe clarko).

I do think some quality wingers is an area which could potentially hold us back barring a miraculous Stephen Hill resurrection which is why I wouldn't be adverse to a trade, essentially forcing us to try someone else.

 

[WilloTree]

Yeah but look at the picks and concessions that two of those teams have had.

Yes, our set up was more difficult. Mind you, we have had some pretty big opportunities. In 1999 Freo had picks 2, 4, 5, 16 and 19. If that was last year it would be like walking away with Lukosious, Max King, Rozee, McHenry and Stoker (or Pick 1 if you traded it to SOS).

 

[theGav56]

I'm also comfortable with Langdon leaving for a pick inside 20 if we think that Sturt/Henry/Bewley can step up. However, whilst he may not be great kicking inside 50, he does seem a good kick for goal and is pretty good defensively.

Would add Carter to the potential to play a similar role. Surely he doesn't end up at HBF for us?