List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


  • Total voters
    332

bushchook

All Australian
Dec 9, 2018
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Mate one of the biggest reasons tigers killed us was through rebounding out of our forward 50. i.e our forwards werent playing defensive enough. Laid like three tackles in the forward 50 for the entire goddamn game. That is a lack of defence that got us not an absence of attack.

.

You are aware you can't tackle players that have a free kick? Very difficult to lay tackles when we kick it to the opposition defenders. Not many of those rebounds were contested ground balls. They were woeful kick ins that favoured the defender. There's nothing the forwards can do about that.
 

blue shark

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2009
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You are aware you can't tackle players that have a free kick? Very difficult to lay tackles when we kick it to the opposition defenders. Not many of those rebounds were contested ground balls. They were woeful kick ins that favoured the defender. There's nothing the forwards can do about that.
Absolutely, Dixon has a point in how Clarkson can create chemistry keep the scoreboard pressure ticking over.
But they also do the 1 percenters well and score with half chances.
He is half right? We need better running patterns, seperation to create scoring chances. Simpson is another protege who from
defence his team attacks.
We can win contested, stoppages, inside 50's, ruck and still lose. Other clubs retain the ball, control, we can't win it back.
Too many drawn into the contest, and smashed on the outside.
Our half court defence is very good, we just nead to clean up our attacking patterns, uncontested ball work.
The transition from defence to attack could be so much better with an assistant who himself was a smart user, thinker.
 

arsesmart

Premiership Player
Sep 25, 2018
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Dixon's premise though was that Lyon had abandoned a game plan (that they went all the way to the Gold Coast to really improve their understanding and buy-in as a group for) right after seeing it be successful against GWS.... :think:

Riiiight....

Seriously, does anyone really buy that? Given they've got the players right on board with it, fully educated them in it, only to abandon it in those circumstances, they'd be thinking WTF surely. How could he explain that to them?

Further, given the premise is that Lyon's supposed stubbornness is behind it, it was his plan (or at the very least one he'd committed enough to to take them to the Gold Coast), does it make any sense at all that he would cave on it so early? Especially as it had just born such spectacular fruit.
 
Sep 4, 2004
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I agree.


Yes. A footy writer isn't a footy writer for long if they don't get lots of clicks. Writing a well-researched, thoughtful article takes a lot more time than drumming out a well trotted out line that Freo play too defensive.



Take the stats and thought that Purple Eyes puts into his posts. They are much better researched (to suit his/her agenda) than that Dixon article that contains no substance. As I said, I doubt Dixon has even watched our games.
You don't look at the analysis that PE and others have done because it goes against your cognitive biases, it doesn't change that the research was done.

PE has used stats that shows we arent due to compete for another 2-3 years after this year.

Hows that not supporting his/her cognitive bias'?

Small groups of passionate people discussing topics in an insular fashion is how flat earthers became a thing.

If you think objectivity and the Fremantle Big Footy board can safely be in the same sentence then I really dont know what to say. The difference is I don't pretend my opinions are facts by using selective stats.
 
Sep 4, 2004
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There is also an element of validation/confirmation bias to it. You're far more likely to click and read something that you agree with than one that challenges you on your established reality, at least within your own mind.

Looking at the Media thread here it might be the opposite for some Freo supporters.
 

arsesmart

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Sep 25, 2018
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PE has used stats that shows we arent due to compete for another 2-3 years after this year.

Hows that not supporting his/her cognitive bias'?

Small groups of passionate people discussing topics in an insular fashion is how flat earthers became a thing.

If you think objectivity and the Fremantle Big Footy board can safely be in the same sentence then I really dont know what to say. The difference is I don't pretend my opinions are facts by using selective stats.
So you're really going with that blanket statement, that there's no possibility of objectivity because it's typed into this forum?? So if I type 2 + 2 = 4, because it's written here it can't be objective?

It's what's written and what observable evidence it has that constitutes its objectivity level. Who wrote it or where really only counts if you have built up a level of trust in a person or information source.
You just described Big Footy in a nut shell.
That's such a disingenuous cherry-picking post. Me thinks you may be trying to back away from the Dixon article.
 
Sep 4, 2004
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So you're really going with that blanket statement, that there's no possibility of objectivity because it's typed into this forum?? So if I type 2 + 2 = 4, because it's written here it can't be objective?

It's what's written and what observable evidence it has that constitutes its objectivity level. Who wrote it or where really only counts if you have built up a level of trust in a person or information source.

That's such a disingenuous cherry-picking post. Me thinks you may be trying to back away from the Dixon article.

Feel free to relax. I posted the Dixon article but I'm yet to get the tattoo. I think you over estimate my commitment to Ben Dixon. Im happy to be shown contrary opinions and information. I thought Snuffs post on it made sense. Thats why i liked it.

If the fountain of wisdom from stat laden big footy posts are so accurate then the posts of certain posters should have changed over the years. Where is the "hey maybe we are not on the right track" statements?

Youre not suspicious that the 'stats' always show us on the right track and yet we've had 15 of 24 years where we have lost more than half our games.

Wheres the stats showing where we need to improve?

So pardon my lack of faith.
 
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arsesmart

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Sep 25, 2018
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Feel free to relax. I posted the Dixon article but I'm yet to get the tattoo. I think you over estimate my commitment to Ben Dixon. Im happy to be shown contrary opinions and information. I thought Snuffs post on it made sense. Thats why i liked it.

If the fountain of wisdom from stat laden big footy posts are so accurate then the posts of certain posters should have changed over the years. Where is the "hey maybe we are not on the right track" statements?

Youre not suspicious that the 'stats' always show us on the right track and yet we've had 15 of 24 years where we have lost more than half our games.

Wheres the stats showing where we need to improve?

So pardon my lack of faith.
What's indicating I'm not relaxed?

I treat each stat on its merits and am perfectly comfortable with assessing their relative strengths and weaknesses on a case by case basis.

It's poor logic to summarily dismiss stats because this time or that time someone's used them incorrectly, or they haven't been absolutely perfect, or as likely we've not understood their context or what they tell us.

A classic sign of biased driven behaviour is when people go about generalising from a small set of examples to a whole population or category (i.e. a blond has stolen from me three times, all blonds steal or this stat wasn't accurate this and that time, all stats are inaccurate).
 
Sep 4, 2004
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What's indicating I'm not relaxed?

I treat each stat on its merits and am perfectly comfortable with assessing their relative strengths and weaknesses on a case by case basis.

Me too, but the source of the analysis has to be taken into account. Asking Freo supporters who have a crack at people who are negative about the club in any way to do the analysis is highly unlikely to be an objective exercise. Sub consciously or otherwise theres always a reason why everything is fine with what is going on for some and I don't buy it.

A bit like asking British American Tobacco if there's any negative health effects related to smoking, or asking a coal mining company to analyse if renewable energy is worthwhile.

It's poor logic to summarily dismiss stats because this time or that time someone's used them incorrectly, or they haven't been absolutely perfect, or as likely we've not understood their context or what they tell us.

It's poor logic not to use basic critical thinking when looking at 'statistics' posted on a footy message board. Or for that matter published as part of a footy writers article. I was having a bit of fun with the Ben Dixon article. I don't think there's any real analysis in his article though. Again I've proven people just gravitate to data and stats that reinforce their opinion. At least I admit it unlike some. I do have my standards as far as what I think has enough rigour to suggest it's adding to some kind of real understanding of whats going on.

I quite like the 'squiggle' on the main board because it makes some basic assumptions and hypotheses and then uses raw data each week without fear or favouritism to rate teams. No one team agenda there either.

From a footy media perspective I've always liked this article:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...l/news-story/00d982ed553da77d96464b78af79ed82

I like it because I agree with it but more so because again it has used some basic assumptions and then applied the raw data without favouritism.

A classic sign of biased driven behaviour is when people go about generalising from a small set of examples to a whole population or category (i.e. a blond has stolen from me three times, all blonds steal or this stat wasn't accurate this and that time, all stats are inaccurate).

Exactly! That's why statistical analysis of a small dataset on the Fremantle Big Footy board usually doesn't do it for me.
 
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Fred Ziffel

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Apr 26, 2011
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When your midfielders don't work you don't win. Langdon, Tucker, Hill, Colyer etc... Too many passengers today all over.

It also didn't help having Taberner and Hogan contesting the mark in the goal square in the final quarter........ bigger problem was it was the fullback goal square.; Yep, Taberner and Hogan going for the mark in Richmond's goal square.
The ball came out to our half back line and buggar me if it isn't marked by Rory Lobb.
So, our Full Forward, Centre Half Forward and changing KPF Ruckman all deep in our backline. At that moment there was not one Docker in our forward half of the ground, not one.
 

Becky2Belts

Senior List
May 9, 2019
269
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Posted it in the game forum and will post here.

Brisbane at home next week. Last year we finished above them. If they beat us there's no argument we're improving at an acceptable rate. Teams are going past us while we drum up excuses for why this week wasnt that bad.

We're not improving at a rate that any of the ruthless clubs would deem acceptable. I don't care if it's Ross or the players or the board or whoever. We are not ruthless. When do we draw a line in the sand and say enough?
 

maka

All Australian
Jan 15, 2011
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4 missed finals and unforgettable viewing, please get an extension, you’re fantastic
 

blue shark

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2009
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Look at the Peel game, a congested game plan with bruise free footy. We are stuck in no mans land. Fail at the 1 percenters and look slow, unskilled.
Where is the excitement, attacking play going to come from? We look slow, unskilled because our uncontested
play is non existent.
The kids coming through need better development, we only look like winning ugly ATM.
 
Mar 18, 2012
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I’d say Ross is slowly chipping away at my passion for watching Fremantle, but I’m still pretty angry so I guess there’s that. Just hate the direction he’s taking the club. He’s a dinosaur. I said in the game day thread his coaching is all about stopping and not creating. The players are more afraid of losing than being prepared to win. Had enough of this s**t.
 

Nodgey

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Aug 14, 2007
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I’ve lost faith. Can’t see any difference between the last few weeks and 2016-2018. Can’t see any silver lining whatsoever from these past 3 low scoring losses. It’s demoralising.
 
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