Discussion Prison Bars debate

[Heardy_101]

You're probably taking this far too personally considering you're not even a Port Adelaide supporter.
Also I too would protect a foundation member of the VFL vs. an expansion club that has only been with the league for little over 20 years.

And this attitude is the very problem.

 

[bomberclifford]

Well then it will probably be nothing.

Don't bet on it.

 

[Timewaster]

It's our heritage, our history and our right.

It's a long history and a proud heritage, no doubt.

You're wrong at the end though because you expressly traded that right away when negotiating to join the comp. You have no right whatsoever.

If you want to change your jumper, sure, propose anything you like, but it'd be a better approach to be nice about it, instead of just yelling about Collingwood.

All Port is being asked to do is honour their agreement

 

[Sparkle]

And this attitude is the very problem.

What attitude?

The only thing I see here is someone who has a different opinion to what is supposed to be the 'correct' opinion (in the eyes of Port Adelaide supporters), and like others around the board, get called out and shouted down for having the non-Port Adelaide opinion

 

[Timewaster]

As a Blues fan I want to hate only one black and white striped team. PAFC should wear something else.

The club are happy in the BIB, the small group of fans can go and watch the SANFL

 

[TY24]

What attitude?

The only thing I see here is someone who has a different opinion to what is supposed to be the 'correct' opinion (in the eyes of Port Adelaide supporters), and like others around the board, get called out and shouted down for having the non-Port Adelaide opinion

People are entitled to differing opinions, but to suggest that foundation clubs deserve preferential treatment over the expansion clubs is insulting and arrogant.

Without expansion clubs many of the foundation clubs probably would've gone bust.

There are 18 teams in this competition and the governing body should treat them all equally.

 

[RossFC]

As a Blues fan I want to hate only one black and white striped team. PAFC should wear something else.

The club are happy in the BIB, the small group of fans can go and watch the SANFL

When the AFL reserves comp comes in, we won't be able to afford to have an AFL, AFL reserves and SANFL team.

We had to get rid of our SANFL reserves side due to no funds. That pretty much kills anyones claims that we are making "big bucks" in the AFL.

 

[Sparkle]

People are entitled to differing opinions, but to suggest that foundation clubs deserve preferential treatment over the expansion clubs is insulting and arrogant.

Without expansion clubs many of the foundation clubs probably would've gone bust.

There are 18 teams in this competition and the governing body should treat them all equally.

This is all fair enough and makes sense, however in relation to the prison bars, Collingwood being in the VFL/AFL before Port Adelaide means they should probably get first dibs at their colour choice and brand, and be allowed to have a say if they believe another team will interfere

 

[caloschwaby]

And this attitude is the very problem.

People are entitled to differing opinions, but to suggest that foundation clubs deserve preferential treatment over the expansion clubs is insulting and arrogant.

I would personally prioritise my own football team over Port Adelaide, yes, definitely. This is because I happen to barrack for them.

 

[Red Crow]

MOD NOTE: PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!!

I've been reading this thread and watching it very closely, and although I don't want to, I'm almost at the point of closing it up.

This board has traditionally been a place where club allegiances are put to one side, and we discuss the merits of jumpers and design without being petty, childish or downright abusive. Unfortunately, this thread is bringing out the worst in a lot of people, and the board as a whole will be poorer for it.

I understand this is a very sensitive subject for people on both sides of the fence. I think it is incumbent on everybody to realise that there are some peoples minds who you just will not change no matter what, and hurling abuse and getting personal is not going to do you any favours. Discussions are going around in circles because they are just descending into shitfights for which nobody is willing to yield. If we can't have a reasoned, rational discussion on this, then we won't have one at all.

I'll keep it open for now, but take this as a first and final warning to improve general behaviour in this thread. This board rarely sees cards and bans dished out, and I don't want them to start now.

 

[magpienato]

People are entitled to differing opinions, but to suggest that foundation clubs deserve preferential treatment over the expansion clubs is insulting and arrogant.

I try to keep to myself in this debate I just have to say, how does that make any sense? If a new Tassie team came in with royal blue and yellow colours and called themselves the Eagles WC supporters would be very well justified in opposing this. It's not so much preferential treatment that we deserve, but a right to defend our colours and brand. I respect the history of your SANFL jumper but I ask that you respect the jumper and wishes of the team who was here far before. Hypothetically, If it had been the other way around with Collingwood joining the SANFL, we would have no entitlement to the black & white and I would happily accept a name change and add in another colour as would be proper courtesy.

 

[TY24]

I try to keep to myself in this debate I just have to say, how does that make any sense? If a new Tassie team came in with royal blue and yellow colours and called themselves the Eagles WC supporters would be very well justified in opposing this. It's not so much preferential treatment that we deserve, but a right to defend our colours and brand. I respect the history of your SANFL jumper but I ask that you respect the jumper and wishes of the team who was here far before.

Except that scenario doesn’t work because Port were an exisiting team from a different league who had used those colours for over 100 years, not a ‘new team’ that decided to sue the same colours as Collingwood. They agreed to dropping the Magpies moniker which makes complete sense and I don’t think anyone has argued for that to return.

Put simply, if a ‘new team’ from Tasmania wanted to call themselves the Eagles and use blue and gold, the AFL wouldn’t allow it.

I wouldn’t have an issue with another team using blue and gold provided they didn’t use a copy of the wings design. They can use the colours all they want as long as their jumper isn’t the same as ours.

The Wharf Pylons and Collingwood’s stripes are significantly different.




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[magpienato]

Except that scenario doesn’t work because Port were an existing team from a different league who had used those colours for over 100 years, not a ‘new team’

Port Adelaide Magpies are an existing team and I respect that, however Port Adelaide POWER and their associated identity are a new creation which Port Adelaide chose to create.

 

[Dazzler9]

As a left-of-centre reference, Gold Coast currently use the Eagles' colours (Smith's chips clash jumper). Nobody bats an eyelid.

 

[magpienato]

As a left-of-centre reference, Gold Coast currently use the Eagles' colours (Smith's chips clash jumper). Nobody bats an eyelid.

Nobody bats an eyelid because the Jumpers are very different, features red. More so than PB vs Collingwood. And besides we're talking about home jumpers here.

 

[Dazzler9]

Nobody bats an eyelid because the Jumpers are very different, features red. More so than PB vs Collingwood. And I'm pretty sure we are talking about home jumpers here.

I know I know. Hence "left-of-centre" (I probs shouldve said left-field come to think of it)

 

[Timewaster]

There's a bit of dishonesty going in in this argument. Black and white? Have at it.

Black and white stripes? No way.

This stuff was agreed by both sides literally decades ago

 

[TysonMoneybags]

I can't see any reason why Port Adelaide can't wear a prison bars (or wharf pylons, or whatever it's known as) jumper as a one-off celebratory jumper, especially if they're selective about the opposition they wear it against. If it were to become the regular home jumper, there'd need to be a bit more consideration.

How would Port fans feel about a jumper set like this?



The black-backed home jumper isn't necessarily the current design worn in the SANFL, but some of the earliest prison bars designs had black backs and it's arguable that a mostly black jumper could be worn at home against Collingwood's white clash jumper with white shorts. The away jumper pretty much is the status quo for prison bars, introducing the white number panel along with white cuffs, and combined with more stripes and white shorts it creates a better balance of black and white. And then the teal prison bars would be worn away as a clash jumper against a handful of teams (including Collingwood). Thoughts?

 

[RossFC]

I can't see any reason why Port Adelaide can't wear a prison bars (or wharf pylons, or whatever it's known as) jumper as a one-off celebratory jumper, especially if they're selective about the opposition they wear it against. If it were to become the regular home jumper, there'd need to be a bit more consideration.

How would Port fans feel about a jumper set like this?

View attachment 677670

The black-backed home jumper isn't necessarily the current design worn in the SANFL, but some of the earliest prison bars designs had black backs and it's arguable that a mostly black jumper could be worn at home against Collingwood's white clash jumper with white shorts. The away jumper pretty much is the status quo for prison bars, introducing the white number panel along with white cuffs, and combined with more stripes and white shorts it creates a better balance of black and white. And then the teal prison bars would be worn away as a clash jumper against a handful of teams (including Collingwood). Thoughts?

What if the away jumper was the home and the teal one was the away and clash?

 

[Bwillow11]

Thank you for this example, I hadn't thought of it but it's absolutely perfect. An Australian premier sporting league with less teams than the AFL, with two clubs wearing almost identical jerseys (even more identical than Collingwood's stripes and Port's bars), and there is little to no confusion when watching a game if you're watching Sydney or Melbourne City. I'm yet to hear of an instance of Sydney fans in uproar because they accidentally bought City jerseys.

Similar thing happened too - Sydney were in arms when City announced they were moving to the all sky-blue kit, but here we are and after all the hoohah about it, everyone's lives went on. Sydney's brand was not diminished.

Well I would argue this does diminish the brand. And it is sad to see Sydney FC getting pushed around so much by a major sporting brand who have come much later to the party. I'm sad that the Sydney fans haven't gotten angry with it either.

 

[TysonMoneybags]

What if the away jumper was the home and the teal one was the away and clash?

The only way I can see Port Adelaide wearing prison bars full-time is if it doesn't have a huge impact on Collingwood. Even though Collingwood doesn't dictate who wears what, I assume there'd be an uproar (rightly or wrongly) if Collingwood had to change their jumper design to suit Port Adelaide when the Magpies played at Adelaide Oval. If Port had the white number panel jumper as their home jumper, neither of the current Collingwood jumpers would be suitable. Port could wear the teal jumper at home or even wear their current jumper at home against Collingwood, but it's unreasonable for the home team to wear a clash jumper against one specific opposition (even though that's been suggested for Collingwood v Carlton [and it's arguably not as unreasonable in that case because it's based on somewhat "traditional" jumper matchups]). Port in a predominantly black prison bar home jumper seemed like a reasonable compromise to me.

 

[RossFC]

The only way I can see Port Adelaide wearing prison bars full-time is if it doesn't have a huge impact on Collingwood. Even though Collingwood doesn't dictate who wears what, I assume there'd be an uproar (rightly or wrongly) if Collingwood had to change their jumper design to suit Port Adelaide when the Magpies played at Adelaide Oval. If Port had the white number panel jumper as their home jumper, neither of the current Collingwood jumpers would be suitable. Port could wear the teal jumper at home or even wear their current jumper at home against Collingwood, but it's unreasonable for the home team to wear a clash jumper against one specific opposition (even though that's been suggested for Collingwood v Carlton [and it's arguably not as unreasonable in that case because it's based on somewhat "traditional" jumper matchups]). Port in a predominantly black prison bar home jumper seemed like a reasonable compromise to me.

I'd wear the teal clash vs Collingwood at home if it meant our home jumper vs other clubs was the Prison Bars.

But at the same time when the fixture is made I'd request to play Collingwood at the MCG more often. So a Port Adelaide vs Collingwood game at Adelaide Oval may be once every 2-3 years perhaps. For example, I think we haven't played St Kilda in Victoria for like 6 years.

 

[Bwillow11]

The EPL only has 20 teams, just 2 more than the AFL.

In 2019/20, they'll have

3 teams wearing blue shirts
3 teams wearing red shirts
2 teams wearing red and white stripes
2 or possibly 3 teams wearing claret with sky blue sleeves.
If they only have 2 teams in claret and blue, they'll have 2 teams wearing white shirts.

Life will go on.

The idea that because they're already a global league this doesn't matter is ridiculous. They had the same thing before they became a global league.

In 1992/93, the first year of the Premier league, they had

4 royal blue shirts
4 red shirts
2 sky blue shirts
2 white shirts
2 red and white striped shirts
4 teams wearing royal blue and white shirts in varying patterns.

And despite your insistence that this isn't ideal for a league going global, the Premier League STILL managed to become arguably the biggest sports league in the world.

Technically, the EPL consists of 60 different teams, so this point becomes less and less valid.

 

[north_lad]

Who gives a s**t, the jumper is cool

Wish Eddie would just take some *en chill pills

 

[El_Scorcho]

Well I would argue this does diminish the brand. And it is sad to see Sydney FC getting pushed around so much by a major sporting brand who have come much later to the party. I'm sad that the Sydney fans haven't gotten angry with it either.

But it quite obviously hasn't diminished their brand. At all.

Sydney FC fans haven't maintained the rage because they've realised that it's had no effect on them whatsoever. They're still the biggest and most popular club in the league and they've been the most successful club onfield for the past few seasons as well.

Collingwood are enormously bigger and more established than Sydney FC. Why do you think Collingwood will be negatively affected by this when Sydney FC haven't been at all?

As I posted earlier, this is a lot like the same sex marriage debate. It's something that really only affects a small percentage of the population, but is vitally important to them. Another small percentage of the population thinks it will negatively affect them, but the evidence from everywhere else it has happened shows that it won't. Let's just get it done.