Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[Soapy V]

So we are 12 months away from being 12 months away. Keep pushing them goal posts further and further into the never never.

Keep twisting stuff to suit. GWS also started with so many more advantages including more picks and the ability to sign mature players without using picks.

IMO we are now better than we were 12 months ago and we will be better in 12 months than where we are now. If you don't agree that's fine but don't twist things to suit a negative agenda that so far hasn't produced any logical reasoning

 

[dlb99]

With regards to Bolton, he has to change his way, Ed, Gibbons, JSOS etc need to run through the midfield to protect the kids. Cripps should have played one out full forward last week with his tag and Charlie, Mackay and McGovern moving up the ground. Yes the kids need ball time, but they also need protection to get through the year.

As a Clarkson protege, he is so nothing like Clarkson.

Clarko would shift the magnets, and the game-plan, in-game when things go pear-shaped.

Bolton does nothing, and when it goes pear-shaped it goes catastrophically pear-shaped. We've had about 10 or so 10-goal hidings in the last year or so.

Our midfield was getting destroyed on Sunday, and what did he do to stop the bleeding?

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

So we are 12 months away from being 12 months away. Keep pushing them goal posts further and further into the never never.

GWS in their 4th year won 11 games.
Carlton in year 4 of the rebuild has 1 win.

If results do not dramatically change in the 2nd half there will be change, externally driven change.

You like to compare the two clubs to support your narrative, when the two are poles apart and started from greatly different "Ground Zero's" Keep typing up a storm. Did you enjoy the Carlton bashing on TV last night? You would have been like a kid in a candy store..

 

[Blue and Blue]

'the act of manufacturing or inventing something'

I took your quotes and held them to account. You are certain of mulitple guns coming to us in the trade/fa period despite us having no track record of this since Judd. That is blind faith in our recruitment team.

I think your flogging a dead horse mate. Soapy isnt doing you any harm. He is just as entitled to opinions as anyone without being given the 3rd degree. If he is wrong then he is wrong. So what?

I respect your right to that.
I would say the opposite is true what we have seen is players be happy being close.
I do not see the sacrifice I don't see the work rate I don't see a team that learns from Pain.
I see a team comfortable being uncomfortable they accept it.

I see a team that doesnt have the bodies to do something about it yet.
I dont see them not hurting at all.
I agree the work rate looks off at times but I suspect thats always true of a young team. They get belted up by seasoned campaigners.
The absence of leaders is the killer. You cant expect 20 year olds to play like 28 year olds.
Ok so we shouldnt be in this position of no seniors is the argument some trot out.
That was the aim of a full rebuild though.
So the bottom line is this. Some supporters and some commentators have decided the rebuild is over and therefore we are fully ready. Well thats nonsense. All we did so far is jettison the past and gather some young squires. They arent warriors yet.

 

[dlb99]

You like to compare the two clubs to support your narrative, when the two are poles apart and started from greatly different "Ground Zero's" Keep typing up a storm. Did you enjoy the Carlton bashing on TV last night? You would have been like a kid in a candy store..

I ask you, did you enjoy the Carlton bashing on TV Sunday night?

 

[cfc4life]

Make up your mind. Is it blind faith or I actually know? You MISQUOTED what I said. That is obvious and in writing. What have you held to account?

Where did I say we will definitely get multiple guns? Where did I say 3-4 guns will just walk in? Where did I say we will be a great side next year? This is what YOU said about me. They are simply NOT true, fabrications even lies.

I said we will try and get 5-6 very good mature players (24-28 year olds) in this year using our picks this year and next year and FA. I am confident we will get 1-2 if not more. IMO it's what we need. I don't know for certain but I am very hopeful and if we do it will be make a big difference to our side

Is it really that hard to understand? I don't know how it can be debated. It seems you're the one who is "manufacturing or inventing something".

You literally said "I have no doubt we will get a FA and at least one gun trade using our first round pick or more." Now you're saying you don't know for certain.

 

[cfc4life]

I think your flogging a dead horse mate. Soapy isnt doing you any harm. He is just as entitled to opinions as anyone without being given the 3rd degree. If he is wrong then he is wrong. So what?

Yeah I know, we're going around in circles. It's the way he words his opinions as definites, combined with the eternal optimism, that is incredibly frustrating. I'd hate for our club's higher ups to think in a similar way and have no accountability.

 

[Soapy V]

You literally said "I have no doubt we will get a FA and at least one gun trade using our first round pick or more." Now you're saying you don't know for certain.

You're taking my strong opinions as definites. I have no influence on what happens

You are also misquoting me all the time.

 

[Soapy V]

Yeah I know, we're going around in circles. It's the way he words his opinions as definites, combined with the eternal optimism, that is incredibly frustrating. I'd hate for our club's higher ups to think in a similar way and have no accountability.

Really? Why does my opinion worry you? What a weird comment

 

[Soapy V]

I think your flogging a dead horse mate. Soapy isnt doing you any harm. He is just as entitled to opinions as anyone without being given the 3rd degree. If he is wrong then he is wrong. So what?

and at least comment on what I actually said as well.

 

[cfc4life]

You're taking my strong opinions as definites. I have no influence on what happens

You are also misquoting me all the time.

In most circumstances I would equate the phrase 'no doubt' to a definite.

 

[cookie monster]

Why don't you just say Cookie That you don't have the inner strength and patience to wait any longer for the club to come good? Lets throw the Cot out!

Because I'd like to enjoy a premiership at some point in the prime of my lift, and I'm perhaps as not as prepared to accept another 20 years of being terrible as you or Soapy V might be

 

[cfc4life]

Really? Why does my opinion worry you? What a weird comment

Because it's a broken record and you seem impervious to any criticism or differing opinions. God forbid someone make a negative comment about our club's direction. Anyway let's end it there because you're unwilling to hear out an alternative voice on the matter.

 

[Soapy V]

In most circumstances I would equate the phrase 'no doubt' to a definite.

I have no doubt. That is my belief. How that equates to what the club does I have no idea.

As for you misquoting me on many things that still stands and is unequivocal

 

[Soapy V]

Because it's a broken record and you seem impervious to any criticism or differing opinions. God forbid someone make a negative comment about our club's direction. Anyway let's end it there because you're unwilling to hear out an alternative voice on the matter.

Lots of negatives I ignore and usually yours is one. I question the reasoning NOT the comment

Broken record but you can't even quote me right?

I have had lots of discussions with others and happy to hear a well reasoned opinion. Happens a lot of you look. It's your misquoting of my comments that I don't like.

BUT as you said you get frustrated with my eternal optimism so it's obvious now your responses are emotional

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I ask you, did you enjoy the Carlton bashing on TV Sunday night?

What do you think? Some posters come and go and some stay in the trenches. You tell me which one you are?

 

[rog1995]

The facts are we're 4 years into a rebuild with one win after 9 rounds. If someone told you this 4 years ago would this have been an acceptable result?

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Because I'd like to enjoy a premiership at some point in the prime of my lift, and I'm perhaps as not as prepared to accept another 20 years of being terrible as you or Soapy V might be

60 odd years Doggies supporters waited. We are 24 years. This rebuild believe it or not is exactly what we had to do and it will pay off. If you can"t see it or wait I can't help you.

 

[rog1995]

Lots of negatives I ignore and usually yours is one. I question the reasoning NOT the comment

Broken record but you can't even quote me right?

I have had lots of discussions with others and happy to hear a well reasoned opinion. Happens a lot of you look. It's your misquoting of my comments that I don't like.

BUT as you said you get frustrated with my eternal optimism so it's obvious now your responses are emotional

A question for you Soap. Are you satisfied with where the club is at with one win after 9 rounds 4 years into the rebuild? Are you satisfied with the gameday coaching of Bolton and or the MC selections of players who may or not warrant selection. We all know you're all about being positive however I'm interested in your thoughts without the rose coloured glasses.

 

[Soapy V]

The facts are we're 4 years into a rebuild with one win after 9 rounds. If someone told you this 4 years ago would this have been an acceptable result?

The facts are we are 3 years and 9 rounds into the list/club rebuild and now have the young talent we want. The club off field is doing extremely well.

Now is about development on field and filling the gaps like Ruck and age/ experience etc.

The rebuild to being a Top 4 side was always going to take 6-7 years minimum as our target is long term success. At the moment we are incredibly young and lack mature help

Agree or not it is what the club has stated since the start and hasn't waivered.

 

[HARKER]

Failing that, Garry Lyon is right, MLG, Judd, and a host of other board members should go with Bolton and Silvagni. It's time to wave our hands to the AFL and admit we have no idea how to run a successful football club and haven't had for 20 years.

Said all along that if Bolton is sent packing, board members have to follow suit.
It wouldn't make sense otherwise as for selling this 'we're all in it together' has to be qualified with proof.

Not sure on SOS having to go anywhere though.
He's done his job to at around an 8/10 for now and has the excuse of poor coaching and development to side with him.

Bolton won't be going anywhere this season unless he totally loses it and unless Clarkson gets stood down and is available to come to us.
Roos? You've got to be kidding. Go to that well and we've just gone the full circle and back to Malthouse again.

 

[cookie monster]

The facts are we're 4 years into a rebuild with one win after 9 rounds. If someone told you this 4 years ago would this have been an acceptable result?

The answer to this is absolutely not.

The question is therefore, why are we accepting it now.

We are clearly failing on our own KPIs, but it's clear to me that the current administration keeps changing the goalposts.

 

[cookie monster]

The facts are we are 3 years and 9 rounds into the list/club rebuild and now have the young talent we want. The club off field is doing extremely well.

Now is about development on field and filling the gaps like Ruck and age/ experience etc.

The rebuild to being a Top 4 side was always going to take 6-7 years minimum as our target is long term success. At the moment we are incredibly young and lack mature help

Agree or not it is what the club has stated since the start and hasn't waivered.

The bit in bold indicates a clear failure of list management strategy

 

[rog1995]

The facts are we are 3 years and 9 rounds into the list/club rebuild and now have the young talent we want. The club off field is doing extremely well.

Now is about development on field and filling the gaps like Ruck and age/ experience etc.

The rebuild to being a Top 4 side was always going to take 6-7 years minimum as our target is long term success. At the moment we are incredibly young and lack mature help

Agree or not it is what the club has stated since the start and hasn't waivered.

So why hasn't our recruiting department addressed getting in some bigger bodies to assist in the development of kids? This was glaringly obvious it's what was required.
How do we expect to develop kids without sufficient support? This issue hasn't been addressed in the past two drafts. So why don't we support the kids by using the players we have with bigger bodies like Ed Curnow, Kennedy, Jsos in the midfiled as a starting point?

 

[Broadside]

Said all along that if Bolton is sent packing, board members have to follow suit.
It wouldn't make sense otherwise as for selling this 'we're all in it together' has to be qualified with proof.

Not sure on SOS having to go anywhere though.
He's done his job to at around an 8/10 for now and has the excuse of poor coaching and development to side with him.

Bolton won't be going anywhere this season unless he totally loses it and unless Clarkson gets stood down and is available to come to us.
Roos? You've got to be kidding. Go to that well and we've just gone the full circle and back to Malthouse again.

I do think SOS has nailed many draft picks but the recycling players really hasn't worked out in any meaningful way (at least not yet) and it has left the coach very exposed in the interim. If Bolton was to be sacked at year's end and we did a "process" to find a new coach it may be hard to attract a good player with Adelaide's draft pick given the uncertainty/upheaval which puts scrutiny on that deal with Adelaide. On that score we need wins and competitiveness nearly every week so that we are an attractive destination.