Brad's assessment discussion - Rebuild?

[Moti]

I have heard a bit of commentary over what lead to the decision by Brad to leave and it appears that one of the drivers was not wanting to be in a position to rebuild the club for an extended time, something that Brad suggested we do. Not enough draft picks or talent was his assessment.

So here are my two cents:

LDU is playing like a third rounder right now, Ahern not even playing. These two are low first round selections. Another strong pre-season and I would expect big improvement. We have Cunners and Anderson on the inside, Higgins and Simpkin as inside/outside players with Polec and Dumont rated as above average to elite wingman. All bar Dumont are first round selections (Jed was a pre-selection and trade value was late 1st round). Not enough good draft picks?

We have Brown and Larkey as KP forward, they both play differently but are hard match-ups. Wood and Ziebell offer strong marking third talls while Zurhaar and Garner are stronger than average mid sized marking forwards. Then there is TT Small forward, lacking one for sure.

In defence we are getting old but McKay, Durdin, Daw and Watson are handy at worst. With Taz still at least two years away from moving on, we have a good selection of talls. Again three 1st round selections. Our running defenders are an issue, but Williams is an above average lock down defender while Pittard is a good mid sized defensive defender. Murphy and Crocker loom as the next gen but no doubt one of our holes is talented HB players with good disposal. Atley is there though and well worth the confidence a the moment.

And wouldn't mind Jacobs either, another 1st round pick.

The reality is that we have plenty of options and highly rated junior talents, but for some reason they rarely elevate themselves to A grade status. I am not saying they are all wins, but surely the sheer number of 1st round picks we do have means that there is talent there we have not been able to fully develop.

I see us as having the potential of the 2017 Tigers. After 2016 they looked like a bunch of misses scattered with some great talent. Now they have several elite players with a bunch of A graders and support players that most clubs would love to get their hands on.

Can we set in place a football department that will start this team from scratch, evaluate each player on their merits then develop them to be a cohesive team?

This list has a lot more potential in it than it has shown in years, and I am certainly of the belief the coach has had something to do with not getting the best out of this group.

So no, I don't believe Brad's assessment and I implore the board to reject this shitty thought bubble and tell the club that we are just one game away from our next dominant era.

Or we are just shite ...

 

[Billy Not Really]

LDU is playing like a third rounder right now,

It was one poor game that he was played out of position literally the entire game almost and even then what was dished up wasn't that poor considered he missed nearly an entire quarter with a shoulder injury.

Relax.

 

[Shermanator]

I have heard a bit of commentary over what lead to the decision by Brad to leave and it appears that one of the drivers was not wanting to be in a position to rebuild the club for an extended time, something that Brad suggested we do. Not enough draft picks or talent was his assessment.

So here are my two cents:

LDU is playing like a third rounder right now, Ahern not even playing. These two are low first round selections. Another strong pre-season and I would expect big improvement. We have Cunners and Anderson on the inside, Higgins and Simpkin as inside/outside players with Polec and Dumont rated as above average to elite wingman. All bar Dumont are first round selections (Jed was a pre-selection and trade value was late 1st round). Not enough good draft picks?

We have Brown and Larkey as KP forward, they both play differently but are hard match-ups. Wood and Ziebell offer strong marking third talls while Zurhaar and Garner are stronger than average mid sized marking forwards. Then there is TT Small forward, lacking one for sure.

In defence we are getting old but McKay, Durdin, Daw and Watson are handy at worst. With Taz still at least two years away from moving on, we have a good selection of talls. Again three 1st round selections. Our running defenders are an issue, but Williams is an above average lock down defender while Pittard is a good mid sized defensive defender. Murphy and Crocker loom as the next gen but no doubt one of our holes is talented HB players with good disposal. Atley is there though and well worth the confidence a the moment.

And wouldn't mind Jacobs either, another 1st round pick.

The reality is that we have plenty of options and highly rated junior talents, but for some reason they rarely elevate themselves to A grade status. I am not saying they are all wins, but surely the sheer number of 1st round picks we do have means that there is talent there we have not been able to fully develop.

I see us as having the potential of the 2017 Tigers. After 2016 they looked like a bunch of misses scattered with some great talent. Now they have several elite players with a bunch of A graders and support players that most clubs would love to get their hands on.

Can we set in place a football department that will start this team from scratch, evaluate each player on their merits then develop them to be a cohesive team?

This list has a lot more potential in it than it has shown in years, and I am certainly of the belief the coach has had something to do with not getting the best out of this group.

So no, I don't believe Brad's assessment and I implore the board to reject this shitty thought bubble and tell the club that we are just one game away from our next dominant era.

Or we are just shite ...

Will Walker, Majak and Bailey Scott should have an impact next year.

We desperately need Durdin or McKay to come on otherwise we need a gun CHB and a Cyril Rioli type pocket.

 

[Moti]

It was one poor game that he was played out of position literally the entire game almost and even then what was dished up wasn't that poor considered he missed nearly an entire quarter with a shoulder injury.

Relax.

Don't take it as ripping into LDU, but when you assess the list, his performance no where meets his potential right now. That is upside.

 

[Moti]

Will Walker, Majak and Bailey Scott should have an impact next year.

We desperately need Durdin or McKay to come on otherwise we need a gun CHB and a Cyril Rioli type pocket.

Forgot to mention Will and Bailey, add another two to the list of midfield options.

 

[The chorus]

The last two teams that tried to rebuild by trading away players for draft picks were St. Kilda and Carlton and how are they going? A couple of extra early draft picks are not a magical solution. I have been generally supportive of Brad as I thought he got the best out of the list up until this year, but this year we have gone backwards instead of forwards. I think blaming our poor form this year on lack of early draft picks is a cop out and I hope we don't trade away our good players such as Brown or Cunnington in the hope that a couple of early draft picks will take the place of good recruiting and effective player development

 

[big_e]

I have heard a bit of commentary over what lead to the decision by Brad to leave and it appears that one of the drivers was not wanting to be in a position to rebuild the club for an extended time, something that Brad suggested we do. Not enough draft picks or talent was his assessment.

So here are my two cents:

LDU is playing like a third rounder right now, Ahern not even playing. These two are low first round selections. Another strong pre-season and I would expect big improvement. We have Cunners and Anderson on the inside, Higgins and Simpkin as inside/outside players with Polec and Dumont rated as above average to elite wingman. All bar Dumont are first round selections (Jed was a pre-selection and trade value was late 1st round). Not enough good draft picks?

We have Brown and Larkey as KP forward, they both play differently but are hard match-ups. Wood and Ziebell offer strong marking third talls while Zurhaar and Garner are stronger than average mid sized marking forwards. Then there is TT Small forward, lacking one for sure.

In defence we are getting old but McKay, Durdin, Daw and Watson are handy at worst. With Taz still at least two years away from moving on, we have a good selection of talls. Again three 1st round selections. Our running defenders are an issue, but Williams is an above average lock down defender while Pittard is a good mid sized defensive defender. Murphy and Crocker loom as the next gen but no doubt one of our holes is talented HB players with good disposal. Atley is there though and well worth the confidence a the moment.

And wouldn't mind Jacobs either, another 1st round pick.

The reality is that we have plenty of options and highly rated junior talents, but for some reason they rarely elevate themselves to A grade status. I am not saying they are all wins, but surely the sheer number of 1st round picks we do have means that there is talent there we have not been able to fully develop.

I see us as having the potential of the 2017 Tigers. After 2016 they looked like a bunch of misses scattered with some great talent. Now they have several elite players with a bunch of A graders and support players that most clubs would love to get their hands on.

Can we set in place a football department that will start this team from scratch, evaluate each player on their merits then develop them to be a cohesive team?

This list has a lot more potential in it than it has shown in years, and I am certainly of the belief the coach has had something to do with not getting the best out of this group.

So no, I don't believe Brad's assessment and I implore the board to reject this shitty thought bubble and tell the club that we are just one game away from our next dominant era.

Or we are just shite ...

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.

I don't think we over-achieved last year, I think we are massively under-achieving this year.

You're right about 2017 Richmond - or most premiership sides, to be honest. They are filled with guys like Butler and Castagna and Higgins and Broad and Vlastuin - all of whom are good ordinary players like our Macmillan and McDonald and Atley and Williams, but they are coached so well, and had such a good system that they were close to their best every week. Whereas the difference between our guys' best and worst is just too great. Mason Wood can't be allowed to have 5 disposal games every third week.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, Rhyce - just get the best out of the current lot and you'll have yourself a contract by round 20.

 

[hcd199]

I think hands tend to get overplayed in circumstances like this - suddenly, we're either practically already contenders, or we need to jettison our best players, accumulate picks, and resign ourselves to 3-4 years in the bottom four if we're to have any hope of contending, all depending on who you ask. Richmond's transformation from 2016 to 2017 is worth considering when discussing just how far an underperforming side like ours could go with the right coach and gameplan - but I do think supporter bases lean on examples like that (Geelong re-signing their coach after a down 2006 is another) far too readily, when clearly they're exceptional cases (plenty of clubs have underperformed and then been nowhere near it the year after either, for example...)

With that said, I do agree that the talent is there, and that our current position isn't a true reflection of the standard of our list. External sources love to paint North as 'overachievers' whenever we do better than their lowly expectations, and to praise the coach for "getting the most out of an ordinary side", but talk like that comes from the same places that perennially overrate the prospects of certain "big" clubs - it would be folly for anyone within the club to buy into such a narrative. Any incoming senior coach needs to be someone who can convert potential into results (that holds regardless of where you think the list is at), but given the squad we have at the moment, there's little reason a good coach can't have us on a winning path sooner rather than later.

 

[Psicosis]

Worrying that Brad just said on 360 that he wanted to hit the draft, but club didn’t want to ... oh no

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Worrying that Brad just said on 360 that he wanted to hit the draft, but club didn’t want to ... oh no

If we don't have a rebuild, we'll be here in another 20 years wondering why we haven't seen a genuine contender.

 

[RooBoyz24]

I think in the next 12 weeks let’s play some more kids and see what they have.Could find a diamond and play Ahern & Scott Hayden lets be brave.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Brad's assessment

 

[shintemaster]

View attachment 681788

Yep. Hard to take it seriously, any coach will say they didn't have the talent when they're trying to justify their performance. I think we spend the rest of the year sorting what we can so that we can make some educated decisions end of year. FWIW I don't think we should be throwing out everything to chase 10 draft picks this year - I still firmly believe it is the system (development / training) and coaching style / game structures that are the biggest issue.

 

[Bigeasy]

Worrying that Brad just said on 360 that he wanted to hit the draft, but club didn’t want to ... oh no

I'm pretty sure Brad offered the Board "clean air" for a rebuild by offering his resignation. There is no way Brad could trade away some of his boys which I think is on the cards

 

[Paganism mark II]

There’s nothing wrong with the list. The only weakness is the backline mainly due to Majak’s absence and the round 1 knee injury to EVW.
A new coach with a proper stoppage structure will see us a much different looking team, ESPECIALLY when teams get a run on against us

 

[Snake_Baker]

I'm pretty sure Brad offered the Board "clean air" for a rebuild by offering his resignation.

We can all drop the bull now.

He jumped before he was shunted.

He took the smarter option.

 

[R00StaR]

If we don't have a rebuild, we'll be here in another 20 years wondering why we haven't seen a genuine contender.

Exactly, its already proven super difficult to get gun established players. I didnt hear the 360 comments, but the departure media conference gave the impression of big changes. Hunting established players is what we've been doing and Scott probably fairly suited to that. Rebuilding though the draft as we manage more retirements in the coming years however would be bigger changes and time consuming - all of which they touched on.

They mentioned giving the club fresh air for this change over and over, along with not having top draft picks. Ive no problem with doing what we've been doing, hit the draft and try (but dont expect) to land a big name mainly via free agency.

The media conference it really stands out how much Brad loves this club. I for one would love to see him around the club in some capacity. Some might argue thats difficult for a new coach, id say it shouldnt be if everyone is putting the club first.

 

[Dan]

At the core of it he's right.

We need to invest in the draft.

and that also means trading players too.

we are not the tigers of 2016 or the cats of 2006.

There's good players in the team...but collectively they don't perform. A coach that demands winning and more 1st round draft talent in the club will change things.

 

[Bigeasy]

We can all drop the bull now.

He jumped before he was shunted.

He took the smarter option.

Move on

 

[Hazey1977]

The last two teams that tried to rebuild by trading away players for draft picks were St. Kilda and Carlton and how are they going? A couple of extra early draft picks are not a magical solution. I have been generally supportive of Brad as I thought he got the best out of the list up until this year, but this year we have gone backwards instead of forwards. I think blaming our poor form this year on lack of early draft picks is a cop out and I hope we don't trade away our good players such as Brown or Cunnington in the hope that a couple of early draft picks will take the place of good recruiting and effective player development

Brissie? Not sure they traded any players of note away, Beams aside.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Hazey1977]

Worrying that Brad just said on 360 that he wanted to hit the draft, but club didn’t want to ... oh no

Or didn't trust him/Joyce's to go into it again?

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Royal Flush]

I'm pretty sure Brad offered the Board "clean air" for a rebuild by offering his resignation. There is no way Brad could trade away some of his boys which I think is on the cards

That fits into the narrative perfectly

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[kangafruity]

We can all drop the bull now.

He jumped before he was shunted.

He took the smarter option.

Yep that's my take on it too for what its worth.
Brad might say he would do the best for NMFC but Brad has to look after Brad and he has.
He knew the writing was on the wall, the club knew the writing was on the wall, it just came a little quicker than he had hoped.
He might say he is going to spend more time playing golf and with his family and he probably will Monday to Friday but I am tipping that there will be several media gigs awaiting him and he wont be doing it for nothing.
Brad comes out smelling of roses and we look like the bad guy again.
I was incensed at that dipstick Mick Warner on Talking Footy last night about the dribble he came out with.
The club needs to go rogue on these stupid journos once and for all.

 

[Passmore]

Brissie? Not sure they traded any players of note away, Beams aside.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Brisbane have only traded away players who didn’t want to be there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[D23D]

At the core of it he's right.

We need to invest in the draft.

and that also means trading players too.

we are not the tigers of 2016 or the cats of 2006.

There's good players in the team...but collectively they don't perform. A coach that demands winning and more 1st round draft talent in the club will change things.

That's what a good coach can make happen.