Opinion Bagging of players on our list

[Maggie5]

Interesting expression, 'bagging of players'. What does that include/exclude?

For mine if you critique a player's game, lack or poor skills in a particular area, that is not bagging.

How do others see that expression?

 

[jmac70]

Interesting expression, 'bagging of players'. What does that include/exclude?

For mine if you critique a player's game, lack or poor skills in a particular area, that is not bagging.

How do others see that expression?

Disrespect comments are pretty obvious and should be met with a warning from mods.

 

[Yidaki]

Interesting expression, 'bagging of players'. What does that include/exclude?

For mine if you critique a player's game, lack or poor skills in a particular area, that is not bagging.

How do others see that expression?

Critique isn't bagging. These guys are professional AFL players. With that comes a level of expectation. If a player isn't doing well then it's fair game. After all that is what this forum is for. Critique and encouragement go together. It's not all marshmallows and rainbows all the time. We as fans want the best always. Our critique is driven by that.

Obviously if we were within the inner circle of the Pies (like coaching staff) then the critique would be way more subdued and delivered in a very constructive manner. However it's not like any of us actually have that access so really the critique is only discussed within the confines of this forum.

 

[surfer1]

For me its when tbe comment is personal ie about courage,vanilla dropkick, useless, spud etc rather than analysing a players skillset

 

[jmac70]

Don’t have to go too far to find an example - “Light a fire under his dumb ass.”
Happyred

 

[TradeDraft]

Saying a Player is a Dud without much to back it up

 

[Bad Horse]

It tends to get into an emotive discussion no matter what you do. There is a spectrum, and some will see even what you describe in the OP as "bagging" or worse, "hating". I personally viscerally object to dispassionately discussing a player's limitations being called "hating" for example, but it is what it is.

Conversely, there are times that it seems to cross a line for me into something that I would classify as "bagging"or even occasionally "hating". Just never as often as the terms are used.

And let us not delve into the depths of the other word, the one used by ottoman to describe Moore, the Show****. For shame sir. Do that again and I will take off my belt and by thunder my trousers will fall down.

Everyone draws the line in a different place, and often in different places for different players. I tend to mark Treloar harshly for example, but Aish benignly. Its probably got something to do with belly button lint, but I am not sure. Its just how I roll.

I think often we overestimate the negative, and the positive in a lot of our players. Splitting is a natural tendency.

I know I wish them all success, even for most when they leave. And I hope they have a wonderful and successful career at Collingwood. But even I can see players for whom the bell tolls, and who I think we may be a better side with other players in. Thats the test for me; am I just heaping on a player, or do I want someone else because I genuinely think they make us better on the field.

No matter what though I support them when they are on the field.

I also love all my Collingwood supporting brethren, even if the bag, hate, or show**** the * out of players.

Well not you ottoman. Of course. I hope the ponies find you tasty.

 

[adammania9]

Gotta remember that some people have just gotta let off some steam at times, and sometimes what they write isn't what they truly think. I'm extremely guilty of this myself - my criticisms of Mihocek and Thomas a couple of days ago were extremely childish and I wouldn't be happy with myself if they or anybody close to them stumbled upon those posts.

Constant obsessive bagging is never on, but an online platform is a pretty easy way for people, sometimes myself included, to just let off some steam without embarrassing themselves by speaking in public, as silly as that sounds.

I reckon it's important to recognise the circumstances because as I said, what somebody might say might just be a brain fade and a few hours later they may feel completely different about it. The difference between ranting in real life and ranting online is that the online print sticks and can be seen later on.

 

[jmac70]

Saying a Player is a Dud without much to back it up

How about your description of Crisp as “the human turnover machine?”

 

[jmac70]

Gotta remember that some people have just gotta let off some steam at times, and sometimes what they write isn't what they truly think. I'm extremely guilty of this myself - my criticisms of Mihocek and Thomas a couple of days ago were extremely childish and I wouldn't be happy with myself if they or anybody close to them stumbled upon those posts.

Constant obsessive bagging is never on, but an online platform is a pretty easy way for people, sometimes myself included, to just let off some steam without embarrassing themselves by speaking in public, as silly as that sounds.

I reckon it's important to recognise the circumstances because as I said, what somebody might say might just be a brain fade and a few hours later they may feel completely different about it. The difference between ranting in real life and ranting online is that the online print sticks and can be seen later on.

You can be held to account for things you write on the internet.

 

[Vicky Park]

I used that phrase in a post today, in relation to, um, Beams, with whom I'm unhappy.

I agree with the OP, that critiquing a player's game and lack of, or poor skills, is not bagging, especially when it comes from a knowledgable base and a balanced perspective. Neither of which I have.

I'm otherwise just generally uncomfortable with cricising players because I think they have a hard time, mentally and physically, and they go out and do it week in and week out for the black and white. And I love them for it. Plus I dont think most of them are remunerated well enough for what they have to put up with. But's that’s another story.

 

[Maggie5]

Don’t have to go too far to find an example - “Light a fire under his dumb ass.”
Happyred

Fair enough and I must admit, I find it difficult when a player is discussed in the negative without elaboration.

As to mods letting things go, having just been in the role for a short time, I/we don't always see every post and the best way for us to see it is if the 'report' option is used.

 

[magpie_marty]

Interesting expression, 'bagging of players'. What does that include/exclude?

For mine if you critique a player's game, lack or poor skills in a particular area, that is not bagging.

How do others see that expression?

Maggie5 You raise a great ?
I am guilty of bagging player Blair and i feel it was justified at the time.
But it's our own perception at the end of a game we all see things in a different light.
So it's an open discussion and i think this board really does that well.
For example we are not bagging a player but thinking gee someone else could do better.

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie5 You raise a great ?
I am guilty of bagging player Blair and i feel it was justified at the time.
But it's our own perception at the end of a game we all see things in a different light.
So it's an open discussion and i think this board really does that well.
For example we are not bagging a player but thinking gee someone else could do better.

Yes, I remember you.

I actually was a fan given his limitations and his effort but I get what you mean.

 

[adammania9]

You can be held to account for things you write on the internet.

I agree. It's very difference to speaking verbally. Would you reply to a random Pies supporter on the way out of the game on Saturday if he were having a go at Mihocek's efforts for example? I certainly wouldn't, and I doubt most would also. It's probably not what the supporter truly thinks, they're just releasing their frustration. Lots of people tend to release their frustration online.

 

[magpie_marty]

Yes, I remember you.

I actually was a fan given his limitations and his effort but I get what you mean.

Yeah hindsight is a funny thing when i reflect on player Blair and what he achieved you have to respect that.

 

[sirlothie]

Disrespect comments are pretty obvious and should be met with a warning from mods.

God I hope you never become a mod, this place would become so vanilla lol.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Discussing players, critiquing is all fine.
Explaining why you like or dislike a player using a bit of respect is fine.

Having context is fine if the words chosen is respectful.

Very difficult to justify slamming our players or coaches with rudeness, derogatory remarks, nasty epitaphs.
No need.

Tone is important too. Though it’s the internet, tone can usually be picked up.

Then there’s (at times only) the visceral hate given, especially it seems to the coach. Not on.

Each to their own, but often it becomes a reflection of the poster that if it’s repeat behaviour.

As an aside the most obvious (trolling) is when you see certain types appear eg after a loss or and all their intent is to bag out in a nasty way the coach. Suspect not a Collingwood supporter.

Summing up: Respect goes a long way.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You can be held to account for things you write on the internet.

In Thailand or Cambodia the players would be able to sue for libel. That kind of consequence would make posters think twice before calling someone a spud or speculating about their gambling debts.

On the other hand, referring to Crisp last Saturday as a 'human turnover machine' is probably quite legitimate in the context of his performance in that game.

 

[sirlothie]

It depends. It's not abuse if the criticism is justifiable and based on evidence and I think most posters don't lose sight of the good in the players as well as seeing the bad. There's nothing wrong with that. It's called balance.

What annoys me and I consider bagging is when someone is on someone's case no matter what they do. There's a couple of posters who have got it in for certain players and take any pot shot they can at them, even ridiculous ones. That's when it annoys me.

On the other hand, being too positive and thinking players can do no wrong and wearing rose colored glasses and calling people out for having an opinion is not good either.

It's all about balance.

 

[Black_White]

What a laugh.
“Bagging” a player is part of the game.
I’d even bet that AFL players in their youth, following their respective teams, “bagged” those players.
The only people who seem offended by it is the pea hearts who live on the edge of the forum waiting for that slim chance to say “I told you so” when a player plays one good game.
When you take on the public exposure that any professional sport brings, then you know that there will be those that love you, and those who hate you and those who just critique your performances.
That’s the life of the professional.

 

[Bad Horse]

God I hope you never become a mod, this place would become so vanilla lol.

Vanilla can be good though, a nice madagascar vanilla bean is awesome.

Just dont start me on ******* kombucha.

 

[Maggie5]

What a laugh.
“Bagging” a player is part of the game.
I’d even bet that AFL players in their youth, following their respective teams, “bagged” those players.
The only people who seem offended by it is the pea hearts who live on the edge of the forum waiting for that slim chance to say “I told you so” when a player plays one good game.
When you take on the public exposure that any professional sport brings, then you know that there will be those that love you, and those who hate you and those who just critique your performances.
That’s the life of the professional.

Don't completely agree with you on this.

How about those that bag without context or supporting evidence or even nothing to do with their playing efforts?

 

[Yidaki]

How about your description of Crisp as “the human turnover machine?”

What is wrong with that? In the context of when and where it was written, I don't see a problem.

 

[Black_White]

Yes, I remember you.

I actually was a fan given his limitations and his effort but I get what you mean.

I was a Blair fan early days.
His debut year, including a Premiership, was pretty stunning considering his size.
But you aways got effort from him.
In his later years I switched. It not so much because he had lost any of that effort, he hadn’t, but I could see that he was not the future and the way he was constantly picked over players I did consider we needed to advance was truly frustrating.
He bore the brunt of that.