Preview Rnd 13 - Carlton v Bulldogs Sat 15th June 7.25PM @ Etihad - Team Post #426

[BigFrizz36]

Murphy isn't a star any more but he doesn't have to be. He just has to able to contribute more than what the 23rd best player on our list and he can clearly still do that.
It makes me laugh that time after time we see what happens when we have a vacuum of older players out through injuries that we get slaughtered and now after one win we are going that well that we can pension them off.
The time will come when we don't need Murphy, Simmo and daisy but it has been clearly demonstrated that it's not yet.

 

[ferrisb]

Jones must be given as much time as needed to recover.

That aside, reckon he would make the perfect match up for Naughton.

 

[RAPPA]

Murphy is forward picket or twos. If Simmo is still around next year, then Doc can get minutes in the midfield. If Daisy and Simmo are still going around, Daisy could be a forward option. Depending on how the rest of the season unfolds and who stays on, there will be a changing of the guard happening but it can’t be at the expense of losing much needed senior bodies

 

[rp84]

The only way I see Murphy contributing to this side, in a positive way, is as a small forward

Agree. Is so sharp around goals and still finds time on the ball. Has been pretty lethal within 20m shooting for goal too. IMO, could be our best small forward.

 

[gbatman]

Murphy has to play if he's fit you would imagine and I would think they would even consider Stocker fairly well too.

It's good to have a win and all and it was good that most players were good to fair but I think there is a spot.

Dow has struggled to get the footy for most of this season. I think Murphy is going to offer more. O'Brien out for Murphy looked obvious but O'Brien was decent and I think he should hold his spot.

Jones I think should come back via the VFL. I think it would be the right way to bring him back, if not then the tough call needs to be made and he replaces Casboult. The other thing to consider is that the bulldogs aren't very tall and Casboult may not have a matchup here.

There would be a little pressure on Silvagni. While he tried hard he was sloppy.

At this stage I think we go in like this.

B: Plowman Casboult Thomas
HB: Marchbank Weitering Simpson
C: Setterfield Cripps Murphy
HF: SPS McKay Gibbons
F: Silvagni Curnow McGovern
OB: Kreuzer Walsh Curnow
IC: Newman Cuningham Fisher O'Brien

I think we can beat these guys again, we just needs to win plenty of the footy and really be aggressive with our tall forwards.

A win here could see us jump and put us into 16th spot and from then on we're not too far away from jumping the Bulldogs and St Kilda who are on 4 wins. Our draw isn't that difficult, there are plenty of winnable games, if we can improve and keep things going we're a chance to finish the season respectable so it's a pretty big game in that respect.

I think the possibility of playing quite a few more senior players in this game is big for us, we do better when we have our older guys out there, they just give us a little of what we lack.

 

[Blues90]

Walsh on ball was the best coaching move for mine

 

[OldBlueFan]

It is worse when there is no news out of the club to explain the extended absence.

Agree SOAP, something doesn’t seem right for it to be just precautionary measures for a normal concussion.

I've heard Bolts and others say repeatedly that Jones has been suffering lingering concussive symptoms, so I don't understand comments like this.

But in relation to Liam, my sister was at the game on Saturday and she got talking to a bloke who was there with his son. The bloke and his son had been to training during the week and related a story (of which they showed her evidence) that I'd rather not share here. What I will say is that I'm glad they're taking their time with him, it sounds like this concussion was a doozy.

 

[Jabba73]

I've heard Bolts and others say repeatedly that Jones has been suffering lingering concussive symptoms, so I don't understand comments like this.

But in relation to Liam, my sister was at the game on Saturday and she got talking to a bloke who was there with his son. The bloke and his son had been to training during the week and related a story (of which they showed her evidence) that I'd rather not share here. What I will say is that I'm glad they're taking their time with him, it sounds like this concussion was a doozy.

You sister has heard and seen evidence that makes you happy the club is taking their time with the return from injury, none of it came from the club. Your second point contradicts your first.

The club has said lingering symptoms, not what the symptoms are, hence my comment about lack of news from the club to explain the extended absence beyond the normal recovery period.

 

[Soapy V]

Only a 1 game sample but some of the guys like LOB played a lot better under Teague with a little more freedom and a role that suits their strengths.
Not to mention a team overall with more confidence.

Not sure why you guys don't think it could work for Murphy too.

Fair comment. I’m a Murphy fan. Happy for him to continue if he can contribute but the signs for me over a long period have been obvious. Like others I think it’s small forward or nothing

 

[efektor]

Plowman.
Jones can play his position no problems

Jones isn’t that great at playing the medium defender role. He gets lost too often when trying to play off his man and even his athleticism can’t help him recover in time. I’d only use Jones in that 1v1 role against the other team’s talls.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Plowman.
Jones can play his position no problems

So far plowman has played on the likes of C. Cameron, tippa, stephenson, toby green. It would be suicide to play jones after five weeks off with concussion in this role.
It also suggests that you are another who does not have enough love for the plow . Good player who gives his all each week in a very vital and tough role for us.

 

[rp84]

No way jones comes straight in after missing a month. Sad for the guy cause was easily AA KPD until injury. The rumours that he might not be back this year are terrible if true. Really found his feet. We have more than enough cover that if there is ANY concern he should take as long as he needs (and have his contract extended to reassure him)

 

[bigdog43]

Two pieces of play both stood out to me on the weekend and both involved Fisher in the third quarter. He gathered the ball on the wing and twice he attacked the corridor by foot rather than continuing down the line. I'm not sure he does that under Bolton but it completely opened up the game and made us much more unpredictable. Especially with three big key forwards who can all take a grab!

 

[Osc1]

Walsh on ball was the best coaching move for mine

I don’t think it was a coincidence that Cripps kicked 4 (and not as a resting forward). He was able to play more on the outside. Unintended consequence ? Not sure, but yet another benefit of playing our players in their correct position.

 

[Mr_Plow]

It is ridiculous how good Walsh is at playing inside already. Deceptively strong through the core, very hard to displace.

 

[Aphrodite]

Daisy's 250th coming up this week.

 

[ctwenty1]

And Sam rowe’s 100 at the saints! Hope they both have great games.

 

[JustaBattler]

Cripp's performance as the running bull given just a bit of room on the outside - just underlined to me how much Carlton has cost itself not having a capable on ball squad all year - sans Cripps and with Ed playing on HFF. Murphy hasn't run like Cripps did in many years. where to play Murphy?

I wouldn't be dropping Fisher or Walsh from the wings in order to fit Murphy in if I were Teague. Would I drop Setterfield - Setterfield is getting games into himself and getting to the right positions making tackles when required and doing ok for a less than 15 gamer ...big knock on him from my perspective was the pathetic misses from dead in front 2 times - no excuses for that - and yet Murphy has missed even more from similar positions as has Dow and SPS....coach killing misses really..

If Teague really wants to win some games - we need a couple of mids to free Cripps to be the most damaging mid in the game - receiving the ball on the burst occasionally - instead of using him as canon fodder so that a few short people 'develop' around him. Ed's performance on Neil wasn't an accident - why the F*** Bolton insisted on playing him on HFF and ignoring week in week out the opposition on ball set ups is one of the great mysteries.

 

[HARKER]

If Teague really wants to win some games - we need a couple of mids to free Cripps to be the most damaging mid in the game - receiving the ball on the burst occasionally - instead of using him as canon fodder so that a few short people 'develop' around him. Ed's performance on Neil wasn't an accident - why the F*** Bolton insisted on playing him on HFF and ignoring week in week out the opposition on ball set ups is one of the great mysteries.

Yes. That whole 'playing for the future' is folly.
There are of course elements by way of persevering with some and affording them experience, but to kill off Cripps in the meantime?

Sure, Cripps can be his own worst enemy in the way he takes the team on his back, but we really should have been targeting types to make the job easier for the whole and we didn't do that.

More damage can be done via rolling losses than for the individuals/team/club than for any good that may come as a result. Sure didn't help Bolton.

 

[Soapy V]

No way jones comes straight in after missing a month. Sad for the guy cause was easily AA KPD until injury. The rumours that he might not be back this year are terrible if true. Really found his feet. We have more than enough cover that if there is ANY concern he should take as long as he needs (and have his contract extended to reassure him)

With a bye next week I would give him the 2 weeks off. No need to rush him

 

[JustaBattler]

Yes. That whole 'playing for the future' is folly.
There are of course elements by way of persevering with some and affording them experience, but to kill off Cripps in the meantime?

Sure, Cripps can be his own worst enemy in the way he takes the team on his back, but we really should have been targeting types to make the job easier for the whole and we didn't do that.

More damage can be done via rolling losses than for the individuals/team/club than for any good that may come as a result. Sure didn't help Bolton.

Corrwct me if I am wrong but - I think we DID try to get midfielders in...

Didn't we make bids for Hopper / Smith etc and then a big bid for Shiel - so I think the Club was trying - was the focus too narrow? ...was there a significant miscalculation in what was required to get the right developed player over to Carlton ( money contract length?)

We don't know all we know is that Carlton is a developed mid or two 'short' of being a serious headache for any opposition - instead of a flaky nuisance for the first ten minutes...

 

[OldBlueFan]

You sister has heard and seen evidence that makes you happy the club is taking their time with the return from injury, none of it came from the club. Your second point contradicts your first.

No it doesn't. I related that anecdote to confirm what the club has said all along.

The club has said lingering symptoms, not what the symptoms are, hence my comment about lack of news from the club to explain the extended absence beyond the normal recovery period.

Would be an absurd invasion of privacy to be telling people any more than "the symptoms continue and the situation is being monitored".

The access to personal imformation (especially medical information) that some people expect, simply because they barrack for a sporting team, beggars belief.

 

[Soapy V]

Cripp's performance as the running bull given just a bit of room on the outside - just underlined to me how much Carlton has cost itself not having a capable on ball squad all year - sans Cripps and with Ed playing on HFF. Murphy hasn't run like Cripps did in many years. where to play Murphy?

I wouldn't be dropping Fisher or Walsh from the wings in order to fit Murphy in if I were Teague. Would I drop Setterfield - Setterfield is getting games into himself and getting to the right positions making tackles when required and doing ok for a less than 15 gamer ...big knock on him from my perspective was the pathetic misses from dead in front 2 times - no excuses for that - and yet Murphy has missed even more from similar positions as has Dow and SPS....coach killing misses really..

If Teague really wants to win some games - we need a couple of mids to free Cripps to be the most damaging mid in the game - receiving the ball on the burst occasionally - instead of using him as canon fodder so that a few short people 'develop' around him. Ed's performance on Neil wasn't an accident - why the F*** Bolton insisted on playing him on HFF and ignoring week in week out the opposition on ball set ups is one of the great mysteries.

I understand why Bolton did and what he was trying to do but it's obvious he went to far and didn't find the balance. It's the issue when you have a new coach trying to prove himself. Became very focussed without any flexibility. If Bolton can learn and improve I think he will be a fantastic coach.

I like the Roos approach that even in a rebuild you play your best side regardless. Wins mean a lot. I just think we went too far one way. The benefit is the young players have learnt a lot.

From now on players like Curnow in their best spots.

For all the praise for Walsh on the weekend (well deserved) he was on Neale in the first half and Neale did a lot of damage.

 

[JustaBattler]

I understand why Bolton did and what he was trying to do but it's obvious he went to far and didn't find the balance. It's the issue when you have a new coach trying to prove himself. Became very focussed without any flexibility. If Bolton can learn and improve I think he will be a fantastic coach.

I like the Roos approach that even in a rebuild you play your best side regardless. Wins mean a lot. I just think we went too far one way. The benefit is the young players have learnt a lot.

From now on players like Curnow in their best spots.

For all the praise for Walsh on the weekend (well deserved) he was on Neale in the first half and Neale did a lot of damage.

I've moved on from Bolton Soapy - because I'm sick of teh whole situation - but I have made up my mind on why he is no longer there.

We are one game behind last year's preliminary finalists in Melbourne = how safe is their coach - really? Is he to making the same mistakes as stubborn unproven coaches make every year? i reckon the game has moved far far beyond the one coach has all the answers caper. Isn't it interesting that Clarkson has so many proteges coaching in other CLubs these days? - Speaks volumes about Clarkson's own belief in the importance of strong assistance all around him.

Look at Fagan in Brisbane - he has an on field coach in Hodge guiding his team - did you watch the TV replay and how closely these two were communicating on the sidelines?

Bolton can only play who he had available to play - but some of his positional choices were beyond my ability to understand Soapy. Ed to HFF - really really??? how much better does Fisher look off a flank - than in the middle trying to scrap against blokes literally 15 kilos heavier? Same for Dow - what exactly does a coach expect from an undersized second year player ?

THIS is where Bolton's choices were inexplicable- he weakened two positions and the team by playing the wrong bloke(s) in the wrong spots guaranteeing failure in both positions...compounding negatives ...

SPS is far better employed off HBF and Fisher far better employed off a wing/HFF - that is two wins there instead of two losses - which compound over 4 quarters. I can bore you to death with many examples...how about compromising forward structures to make up for conscious decisions to disadvantage between the arcs?

The players were on a hiding to nothing with his on ball structures all year and totally exposed against sides who attacked his weak structures purposefully (eg Norfs) OR just had better lists ( GWS) - by the time we came up against EssenDONE - I have no doubt he lost the players confidence and they played like it.

All that said - for whatever reason(s) we are still undermanned in terms of on ball rotations - can get away with it when everything clicks - but not a reliable or sustainable situation. This coming trade period will be absolutely crucial to progress next year - I hope the Club is all over it like Ed was on Neil in second half.

Bolton was let down by the lack of a senior mentor - it appears that Bolton also played a large part in his own repeated errors - by ignoring his assistants if we are to believe insider rumours- what is the point of assistants if they aren't given a voice - especially in the context of repeated fails- where was the post match audit ? How many losses did Bolton expect supporters to cop or his marketing team to explain or his players to cope with ?

We saw in Buckley and Hardwick classic cases of senior coach being improved by having senior assistants more of a say. The Club would have been aware of the goings on - sacking him mid year before the bye - was not something that anyone wanted - was it forced by Bolton himself? I would say it all points to that.

 

[Soapy V]

I've moved on from Bolton Soapy - because I'm sick of teh whole situation - but I have made up my mind on why he is no longer there.

We are one game behind last year's preliminary finalists in Melbourne = how safe is their coach - really? Is he to making the same mistakes as stubborn unproven coaches make every year? i reckon the game has moved far far beyond the one coach has all the answers caper. Isn't it interesting that Clarkson has so many proteges coaching in other CLubs these days? - Speaks volumes about Clarkson's own belief in the importance of strong assistance all around him.

Look at Fagan in Brisbane - he has an on field coach in Hodge guiding his team - did you watch the TV replay and how closely these two were communicating on the sidelines?

Bolton can only play who he had available to play - but some of his positional choices were beyond my ability to understand Soapy. Ed to HFF - really really??? how much better does Fisher look off a flank - than in the middle trying to scrap against blokes literally 15 kilos heavier? Same for Dow - what exactly does a coach expect from an undersized second year player ?

THIS is where Bolton's choices were inexplicable- he weakened two positions and the team by playing the wrong bloke(s) in the wrong spots guaranteeing failure in both positions...compounding negatives ...

SPS is far better employed off HBF and Fisher far better employed off a wing/HFF - that is two wins there instead of two losses - which compound over 4 quarters. I can bore you to death with many examples...how about compromising forward structures to make up for conscious decisions to disadvantage between the arcs?

The players were on a hiding to nothing with his on ball structures all year and totally exposed against sides who attacked his weak structures purposefully (eg Norfs) OR just had better lists ( GWS) - by the time we came up against EssenDONE - I have no doubt he lost the players confidence and they played like it.

All that said - for whatever reason(s) we are still undermanned in terms of on ball rotations - can get away with it when everything clicks - but not a reliable or sustainable situation. This coming trade period will be absolutely crucial to progress next year - I hope the Club is all over it like Ed was on Neil in second half.

Bolton was let down by the lack of a senior mentor - it appears that Bolton also played a large part in his own repeated errors - by ignoring his assistants if we are to believe insider rumours- what is the point of assistants if they aren't given a voice - especially in the context of repeated fails- where was the post match audit ? How many losses did Bolton expect supporters to cop or his marketing team to explain or his players to cope with ?

We saw in Buckley and Hardwick classic cases of senior coach being improved by having senior assistants more of a say. The Club would have been aware of the goings on - sacking him mid year before the bye - was not something that anyone wanted - was it forced by Bolton himself? I would say it all points to that.

Very well said. Totally Agree

No coach is perfect and Bolton did a lot of good that will benefit us into the future. Seems as though his stubborness to adjust his thinking may have been his downfall