Coach John Longmire - Part III

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BruceFromBalnarring said:
It hasn’t been legit debate though has it. Like the Reid stuff it’s all been cliche ridden repetition monopolising thread after thread. “No plan B”. “Too defensive.” “Chippety chip”. “Too Buddy-centric.” “Not using Buddy enough.”

Anyone, like myself, who took the time to provide any sort of detailed analysis, got ridiculed for “rose coloured glasses” or “blaming injuries”. One liners. Entirely dismissive.

And he didn’t toss in the towel against Geelong. That sort of characterisation is really offensive and false.
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Possibly. It was very hard to impute any other rationale.
 
S120 said:
An impending task of Longmire's might just be to slowly phase Josh Kennedy out of playing every minute of his game in the guts of the midfield. I know, blasphemy, but I think there's enough evidence now over the last few seasons that we do just fine when the younger guys step into the middle with Kennedy doesn't play.

Since 2017, in games Kennedy hasn't played in, we're actually 5-1. 6-1 if you include the North game last year when he came off just before half-time. We lost the clearances in 5 of those 7 games, just for added context.

Now I'm obviously not saying Kennedy shouldn't be in the side or even shouldn't play in the guts of the midfield anymore - but I am saying that those numbers could be indicative of our young guys being able to do the job right now to a greater degree than when Kennedy is in. What if we started shifting him around to test it out like how Geelong have move Joel Selwood around? Kennedy's lack of pace is an obvious hindrance to him playing in a few positions, but given how we're playing, why not give it a go? He could still play most of the game in the middle where he's at his best, but I'd hate to see guys like Hewett and Florent and Jones when fit to stop their development as stoppage players when they're all doing well. Limiting Kennedy's time in the middle seems to me to be best for the team moving forward.
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Very good call about JPK .
 

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S120 said:
An impending task of Longmire's might just be to slowly phase Josh Kennedy out of playing every minute of his game in the guts of the midfield. I know, blasphemy, but I think there's enough evidence now over the last few seasons that we do just fine when the younger guys step into the middle with Kennedy doesn't play.

Since 2017, in games Kennedy hasn't played in, we're actually 5-1. 6-1 if you include the North game last year when he came off just before half-time. We lost the clearances in 5 of those 7 games, just for added context.

Now I'm obviously not saying Kennedy shouldn't be in the side or even shouldn't play in the guts of the midfield anymore - but I am saying that those numbers could be indicative of our young guys being able to do the job right now to a greater degree than when Kennedy is in. What if we started shifting him around to test it out like how Geelong have move Joel Selwood around? Kennedy's lack of pace is an obvious hindrance to him playing in a few positions, but given how we're playing, why not give it a go? He could still play most of the game in the middle where he's at his best, but I'd hate to see guys like Hewett and Florent and Jones when fit to stop their development as stoppage players when they're all doing well. Limiting Kennedy's time in the middle seems to me to be best for the team moving forward.
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Couldn’t agree more, been saying this all year.
 
BruceFromBalnarring said:
It hasn’t been legit debate though has it. Like the Reid stuff it’s all been cliche ridden repetition monopolising thread after thread. “No plan B”. “Too defensive.” “Chippety chip”. “Too Buddy-centric.” “Not using Buddy enough.”

Anyone, like myself, who took the time to provide any sort of detailed analysis, got ridiculed for “rose coloured glasses” or “blaming injuries”. One liners. Entirely dismissive.

And he didn’t toss in the towel against Geelong. That sort of characterisation is really offensive and false.
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I completely agree. A few on here miss the point that Horse has always coached well. Cycles in footy are unavoidable. List profiles change over time, game plans evolve, rules evolve and teams evolve. Injuries aside, our results over the entire Longmire period reflect his positive impact on this cycle of constant change.

Horse's coaching means our downs are not as low and our highs can reach a GF multiple times in a generation. Lots of coaches manage to keep their teams hovering somewhere between wooden spooners and playing one or two finals, at least for a few years and their clubs realise they have seen their best and it's not good enough. Bolton and Scott fit that profile, so do a few others.

I also tire of throw away one-liners and the lack of any analysis or original thought.
 
S120 said:
An impending task of Longmire's might just be to slowly phase Josh Kennedy out of playing every minute of his game in the guts of the midfield. I know, blasphemy, but I think there's enough evidence now over the last few seasons that we do just fine when the younger guys step into the middle with Kennedy doesn't play.

Since 2017, in games Kennedy hasn't played in, we're actually 5-1. 6-1 if you include the North game last year when he came off just before half-time. We lost the clearances in 5 of those 7 games, just for added context.

Now I'm obviously not saying Kennedy shouldn't be in the side or even shouldn't play in the guts of the midfield anymore - but I am saying that those numbers could be indicative of our young guys being able to do the job right now to a greater degree than when Kennedy is in. What if we started shifting him around to test it out like how Geelong have move Joel Selwood around? Kennedy's lack of pace is an obvious hindrance to him playing in a few positions, but given how we're playing, why not give it a go? He could still play most of the game in the middle where he's at his best, but I'd hate to see guys like Hewett and Florent and Jones when fit to stop their development as stoppage players when they're all doing well. Limiting Kennedy's time in the middle seems to me to be best for the team moving forward.
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I see some validity but "slowly phase out" is the operative term. Very slowly. We should look just at 2019 rather than 2017/2018. Kennedy's numbers dipped the last two years but have improved since he shared the weight of the captaincy.
 
I’ll admit I was frustrated with Horse. Not as negative as some but I didn’t like the direction we were going in. It felt stagnant and tired.

Slow and steady wins the race sometimes and I think that’s Horse’ strategy. He’s weeding out the old and bringing in the new but it’s taking time and you can’t just pick kids over older guys for the sake of it.

I think I see his vision now and I can see us challenging again in two years. We’ve got a great core, much better than most.

We can build a flag tilt around Papley, Heeney, A2, Hewett, Florent, Blakey and the like. Especially if the senior guys keep up.


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bungee said:
I completely agree. A few on here miss the point that Horse has always coached well. Cycles in footy are unavoidable. List profiles change over time, game plans evolve, rules evolve and teams evolve. Injuries aside, our results over the entire Longmire period reflect his positive impact on this cycle of constant change.

Horse's coaching means our downs are not as low and our highs can reach a GF multiple times in a generation. Lots of coaches manage to keep their teams hovering somewhere between wooden spooners and playing one or two finals, at least for a few years and their clubs realise they have seen their best and it's not good enough. Bolton and Scott fit that profile, so do a few others.

I also tire of throw away one-liners and the lack of any analysis or original thought.
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I get tired of people that can not see the other side and your one.
He has always coached well , crap even the great like Jeans, Smith etc have coached bad at times . He has only had one plan the last few years and that is to restrict the oppo. The constant get the ball sideways to the wing etc and then go backwards is the reason we have been a failure at times , refusing to go forward when one of the greats of the game is there is a joke , don't tell me that's good coaching . I have never said he's a bad coach , I've said we need a freshen up after 17 years and what we have produced is a tired style of play and that's acknowledged by many greats of the game.
Tell me how we lost 16 apart from the cheating we should still of won , but he played Tippett coming back from a broken jaw when Nankervis would have hammered Boyd , McVeigh clearly not fit and it showed with 4 possies .
Sorry it was not a throw away one liner, maybe time for bed !
 
DeadlyAkkuret said:
I’ll admit I was frustrated with Horse. Not as negative as some but I didn’t like the direction we were going in. It felt stagnant and tired.

Slow and steady wins the race sometimes and I think that’s Horse’ strategy. He’s weeding out the old and bringing in the new but it’s taking time and you can’t just pick kids over older guys for the sake of it.

I think I see his vision now and I can see us challenging again in two years. We’ve got a great core, much better than most.

We can build a flag tilt around Papley, Heeney, A2, Hewett, Florent, Blakey and the like. Especially if the senior guys keep up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We'll never know, but I wonder how much Longmire was forced to play younger guys this year by the not insignificant injuries Smith, Grundy, Jack, and McVeigh have sustained. If they were all fully fit from round 1, would they all have played in round 1? I suspect so.

Unfortunately for them I believe it's been a net positive for the club that they've been unable to play.
 
S120 said:
We'll never know, but I wonder how much Longmire was forced to play younger guys this year by the not insignificant injuries Smith, Grundy, Jack, and McVeigh have sustained. If they were all fully fit from round 1, would they all have played in round 1? I suspect so.

Unfortunately for them I believe it's been a net positive for the club that they've been unable to play.
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I think Horse would've played the veterans first if they'd been available. No disrespect to those great players but it's been serendipitous that he's been forced to play some of the younger guys and they've responded so well. They'll still have some up and down form being young but I feel like we've had the band aid ripped off and the future is looking pretty bright.
 
The Gong said:
I think Horse would've played the veterans first if they'd been available. No disrespect to those great players but it's been serendipitous that he's been forced to play some of the younger guys and they've responded so well. They'll still have some up and down form being young but I feel like we've had the band aid ripped off and the future is looking pretty bright.
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As long as we continue to play positive football , not teaching players to go backwards. Is that bungee chap serious that Longmire has always coached well ?


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Gun Island said:
As long as we continue to play positive football , not teaching players to go backwards. Is that bungee chap serious that Longmire has always coached well ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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I honestly think that the team focus has been on playing more positive, attacking footy but we've been forced into a quicker rebuild than we thought and you can only do as much as the opposition allows. I could see in the intent of using the corridor more often but there was a limitation on skills and experience to execute. I'm not sure what the final stat was but during the game it had the Swans playing on from marks 40% of the time as opposed to the Eagles 9% and that shows intent to me. We got the ball in quicker to the forward line before it got clogged up and it made all the difference. Long may it continue.
 

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S120 said:
An impending task of Longmire's might just be to slowly phase Josh Kennedy out of playing every minute of his game in the guts of the midfield. I know, blasphemy, but I think there's enough evidence now over the last few seasons that we do just fine when the younger guys step into the middle with Kennedy doesn't play.

Since 2017, in games Kennedy hasn't played in, we're actually 5-1. 6-1 if you include the North game last year when he came off just before half-time. We lost the clearances in 5 of those 7 games, just for added context.

Now I'm obviously not saying Kennedy shouldn't be in the side or even shouldn't play in the guts of the midfield anymore - but I am saying that those numbers could be indicative of our young guys being able to do the job right now to a greater degree than when Kennedy is in. What if we started shifting him around to test it out like how Geelong have move Joel Selwood around? Kennedy's lack of pace is an obvious hindrance to him playing in a few positions, but given how we're playing, why not give it a go? He could still play most of the game in the middle where he's at his best, but I'd hate to see guys like Hewett and Florent and Jones when fit to stop their development as stoppage players when they're all doing well. Limiting Kennedy's time in the middle seems to me to be best for the team moving forward.
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Very good call S120!
 
S120 said:
An impending task of Longmire's might just be to slowly phase Josh Kennedy out of playing every minute of his game in the guts of the midfield. I know, blasphemy, but I think there's enough evidence now over the last few seasons that we do just fine when the younger guys step into the middle with Kennedy doesn't play.

Since 2017, in games Kennedy hasn't played in, we're actually 5-1. 6-1 if you include the North game last year when he came off just before half-time. We lost the clearances in 5 of those 7 games, just for added context.

Now I'm obviously not saying Kennedy shouldn't be in the side or even shouldn't play in the guts of the midfield anymore - but I am saying that those numbers could be indicative of our young guys being able to do the job right now to a greater degree than when Kennedy is in. What if we started shifting him around to test it out like how Geelong have move Joel Selwood around? Kennedy's lack of pace is an obvious hindrance to him playing in a few positions, but given how we're playing, why not give it a go? He could still play most of the game in the middle where he's at his best, but I'd hate to see guys like Hewett and Florent and Jones when fit to stop their development as stoppage players when they're all doing well. Limiting Kennedy's time in the middle seems to me to be best for the team moving forward.
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He can't play any other position. We shouldn't start to retire him.
 
scaryness said:
He can't play any other position. We shouldn't start to retire him.
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I know what you mean, but other than brief spells up forward to varying degrees of success, I haven't seen Kennedy trialled anywhere other than in the guts of the middle. I'd like to at least see it tried on a more regular basis to see how it goes. I wouldn't count a guy with his football smarts to not be able to make it work anywhere other than in the guts. If he dropped some weight over the off-season, who knows, maybe it would prolong his career.
 
scaryness said:
He can't play any other position. We shouldn't start to retire him.
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He has spent time forward and was effective there. I'd be happy to push him forward throughout games. I think Parker is the real beneficiary in Kennedy's absence. I don't think it's a coincidence he has gone ballistic the past few games with JPK out.
 
The Gong said:
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-06...ks-behind-sydneys-funk-snap-cats-mr-effective

So this article says I'm full of it. If I'm reading it right we're just not overusing the ball as much. We're playing on from marks less, handballing less and kicking longer and more direct. Our scoring rate inside 50 is the best in the league over the past 5 weeks meaning our forward line is beginning to kick in.
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One thing the article doesn't cover is we're creating space better than we were before. Could see it at the game but we were much better in timing our runs in for the mark when before it was a bit of a mess. Makes us much cleaner at moving forward. In the last quarter we were chipping it side to side a lot more than the first 3 quarters which I suspect was a result of WCE blocking our runs better than before. Will expect a lot more lateral movement in the next few rounds as teams block our leads in the middle part of the oval
 
cadsky said:
He has spent time forward and was effective there. I'd be happy to push him forward throughout games. I think Parker is the real beneficiary in Kennedy's absence. I don't think it's a coincidence he has gone ballistic the past few games with JPK out.
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7 years ago, he was an okay forward option.

Don't think he has the skillset or mobility to do it now.
 
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