Bluemour Discussion Thread XVI - Facts Not Welcome

[gbatman]

Pick swap. It will be his downfall.

We swapped a pick so we will effectively have three first round picks in two years.

At this stage we have traded pick 1 to 5ish for pick 19 and 14ish which is an ok trade but not outstanding.

Pick's are all well and good but the only thing that matters is the quality of the player you get with those picks. Both us and Adelaide have not got that far yet.

We will be looking to trade that pick I'm sure, if the pick is good enough to trade then great.

As far as I can see, at this stage it's a win for both clubs. If we get two really good players instead of one then that is a win. If Adelaide get a really good player or they use it in a trade which I think they will then that is a good result for them. They need a ready made gun to improve them, we need numbers of good young players to build our team.

The only defining factor here really is whether Stocker turns out to be a good player and by all indications he is going to.

Imagine how much we'd be all over SOS if his recruiting was like this:

2001
Pick 20 - Elstone - 0 games

2002
8 - Luke Brennan - 28 games

2003
25 - Harry Miller - 18 games

2004
21 - Murphy - 112 average player
26 - Little - 1 game

2005
3 - Ellis - 120 games, no star but ok player
6 - Dowler - 16 games, bust
18 - Bailey - 43 games just a player, bust
22 - Muston - 13 games, bust

2006
6 - Thorp - Bust
24 - Renouf - 68 games average player

For those who are wondering who this is, it's Hawthorn's list of poor to mediocre players taken with early picks. Didn't stop them from building one of the greatest lists you will ever see.

And we have posters here complaining that SOS did a deal to get an extra first round draft pick at the sacrifice of one early pick and we have people complaining SOS is drafting too many duds.

SOS isn't burning first round picks like this and that's the main thing a recruiter must not do. A couple might be just average players but the strike rate is good. With Agresta on board we have picked up guys like Newman, Gibbons and now DeLuca who might well become good players so there's the budget side of our recruiting being ticked off.

I think we need a little dose of reality. Expectations of a recruiting department to be perfect need to be tempered down because that's not the reality of the nature.

SOS is not a Rogers or Hughes and burning early picks and if that box is being ticked then that's the main thing.

 

[HARKER]

We missed because smith, shiel and rockcliff didn't want to come to Carlton

Not exactly correct.
Even if you simply followed the situation on Shiel late through the trade period, you may have a diferent view.

I can see the reason why he did it, but should have used a different player. This week Teague better have someone sitting at half forward with one eye on that little bloke that wears a helmet, he's been getting cheap possies all season.

I can't see why we did it and I gather that neither could Teague.
Bet it wasn't his idea that we needed Polson, Gibbons and ECurnow in the forward line. Maybe it was......but I doubt it.

 

[DollarsandSense]

We missed because smith, shiel and rockcliff didn't want to come to Carlton

Smith = broken again (rumor has it he failed a couple of medicals anyway)
Shiel = hasn't done much, loves to butcher the ball, Setterfield will be better long term.
Rockliff = would have been good. but from all reports - has a personality of a stone. good miss.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I can see the reason why he did it, but should have used a different player. This week Teague better have someone sitting at half forward with one eye on that little bloke that wears a helmet, he's been getting cheap possies all season.

Send Dennis Armfield to him as a defensive forward!

 

[Robertio]

Send Dennis Armfield to him as a defensive forward!

Then who you gunna play at CHB?

 

[Robertio]

Not exactly correct.
Even if you simply followed the situation on Shiel late through the trade period, you may have a diferent view.



I can't see why we did it and I gather that neither could Teague.
Bet it wasn't his idea that we needed Polson, Gibbons and ECurnow in the forward line. Maybe it was......but I doubt it.

He was playing as a defensive forward on the attacking half backs, most teams have one. Now don't get me wrong i'd prefer him in the middle as well.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Then who you gunna play at CHB?

 

[djw1952]

All the USA draft analysis says the stocker trade is the way to go. I think SOS's stocker trade will be assessed as visionary in years to come. Think PM mal fraser buying blupols painting

Actually, I am pretty sure that G.Whitlam was the visionary that purchased that painting when he was P.M. and was accused of wasting taxpayers $$$ on a creation by some guy named Sidney Pollock............opps!!!

 

[Robertio]

View attachment 690866

Well if you can drive a mini while having a shave you can certainly play CHB.

 

[HARKER]

He was playing as a defensive forward on the attacking half backs, most teams have one. Now don't get me wrong i'd prefer him in the middle as well.

Rob, I didn't mind the idea of Ed playing forward. I just despised the idea and practice of Ed being accompanied by Gibbons & Polson.

Further to that, when the mids needed support, they weren't afforded it via Ed, for seemingly 'coaching for the future' Silly notion and it cost.

 

[El Topo]

Agreed. We've got oodles of young talent, but bugger all else - which is what I'm most critical of. It left Bolton up **** creek without a paddle and he's been made accountable. I'm primarily questioning what role SOS played in that

And sadly, Willo is looking increasingly like a bust

Hughes and Rogers. The list SOS took over was the oldest in the AFL, anchored to 18th place with a maxed out salary cap. Hughes and Rogers.

 

[Soapy V]

He was playing as a defensive forward on the attacking half backs, most teams have one. Now don't get me wrong i'd prefer him in the middle as well.

The other point about Ed being in the middle he allows our other players to be more offensive. Made a massive difference as we took charge of the ball ups and throw ins. Hope we keep playing him there.

 

[Wickzki]

If the second part of the swap becomes half of Whitfield or similar, added to Stocker who will be very good, the Crows will need to nail their pick to even get close to breaking even.

Will be funny if they get the top pick. The consensus number one pick - at this point in time - has already sent out signals that if he gets drafted interstate he'll be back in 2022. Crows will have the reverse of the Darcy Fogarty situation play out.

 

[gbatman]

I don't mind Ed playing forward for a bit, it will be good long term when we build a good side and we are wondering where we are going to rest Ed and realise he can pinch hit up forward because he's played a bit there now. Long term it could come and benefit us.

Where we lost out was not having him in the midfield. Our biggest weakness has been a lack of strength and mature bodies around the footy and Ed is one of those players who has that physical aspect to his game and ability to play midfield.

Having Ed's strong shoulders, running capacity and toughness around the midfield again was an area of improvement for us but long term, that little bit of development into Ed in the forward line is going to benefit us and Ed when we become a good side in a few years time.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Then who you gunna play at CHB?

David Rhys-Jones..

 

[blue healer]

Smith = broken again (rumor has it he failed a couple of medicals anyway)
Shiel = hasn't done much, loves to butcher the ball, Setterfield will be better long term.
Rockliff = would have been good. but from all reports - has a personality of a stone. good miss.

Amazing how much worse a player gets when he elects another team over us.

An early call like that on Setterfield doesn't ease the hurt of missing, think we'd have found a way to add him anyway given that he preferred us.

 

[AlecDuncan]

I can see the reason why he did it, but should have used a different player. This week Teague better have someone sitting at half forward with one eye on that little bloke that wears a helmet, he's been getting cheap possies all season.

I'm happy for Harry to play on him all game again this week.

 

[Crippa#9]

Smith = broken again (rumor has it he failed a couple of medicals anyway)
Shiel = hasn't done much, loves to butcher the ball, Setterfield will be better long term.
Rockliff = would have been good. but from all reports - has a personality of a stone. good miss.

If you don't think Setterfield has been butchering the ball then you haven't been watching Carlton play. I agree he has more upside than Shiel but Will's disposal is not AFL standard at this stage.

 

[Robertio]

I'm happy for Harry to play on him all game again this week.

Yeah me too, the little fella couldn't stop him last time.

 

[blue healer]

I'm happy for Harry to play on him all game again this week.

Re your new avatar, what's 50% funnier than unfunny?

I suspect this post has probably been bookmarked by the extinct one.

 

[Bostonian]

If you don't think Setterfield has been butchering the ball then you haven't been watching Carlton play. I agree he has more upside than Shiel but Will's disposal is not AFL standard at this stage.

Setterfield has shown nothing to suggest he has more upside than Shiel at present.

 

[FairKouta]

Maybe, maybe not.
These are the type of questions we should be asking though.
Who would have thought that Neale would end up at Brisbane?

Ya but Neale is no fyfe the dogs only have the BONT I would give 2 firsts for Macrea easily.

 

[blue healer]

We swapped a pick so we will effectively have three first round picks in two years.

At this stage we have traded pick 1 to 5ish for pick 19 and 14ish which is an ok trade but not outstanding.

Pick's are all well and good but the only thing that matters is the quality of the player you get with those picks. Both us and Adelaide have not got that far yet.

We will be looking to trade that pick I'm sure, if the pick is good enough to trade then great.

As far as I can see, at this stage it's a win for both clubs. If we get two really good players instead of one then that is a win. If Adelaide get a really good player or they use it in a trade which I think they will then that is a good result for them. They need a ready made gun to improve them, we need numbers of good young players to build our team.

The only defining factor here really is whether Stocker turns out to be a good player and by all indications he is going to.

Imagine how much we'd be all over SOS if his recruiting was like this:

2001
Pick 20 - Elstone - 0 games

2002
8 - Luke Brennan - 28 games

2003
25 - Harry Miller - 18 games

2004
21 - Murphy - 112 average player
26 - Little - 1 game

2005
3 - Ellis - 120 games, no star but ok player
6 - Dowler - 16 games, bust
18 - Bailey - 43 games just a player, bust
22 - Muston - 13 games, bust

2006
6 - Thorp - Bust
24 - Renouf - 68 games average player

For those who are wondering who this is, it's Hawthorn's list of poor to mediocre players taken with early picks. Didn't stop them from building one of the greatest lists you will ever see.

And we have posters here complaining that SOS did a deal to get an extra first round draft pick at the sacrifice of one early pick and we have people complaining SOS is drafting too many duds.

SOS isn't burning first round picks like this and that's the main thing a recruiter must not do. A couple might be just average players but the strike rate is good. With Agresta on board we have picked up guys like Newman, Gibbons and now DeLuca who might well become good players so there's the budget side of our recruiting being ticked off.

I think we need a little dose of reality. Expectations of a recruiting department to be perfect need to be tempered down because that's not the reality of the nature.

SOS is not a Rogers or Hughes and burning early picks and if that box is being ticked then that's the main thing.

I think this trade may get a little closer to outstanding if Stocker proves closer to the 6 we rated him than the 19th we paid for him and if we're able to win enough games to minimise the differential. I'm bullish enough to think that both will happen.

In 3 years time I hope we can look back on this and call it the best trade ever.

 

[Soapy V]

If you don't think Setterfield has been butchering the ball then you haven't been watching Carlton play. I agree he has more upside than Shiel but Will's disposal is not AFL standard at this stage.

Wait until he’s fit and got some games into him. Coming off an ACL and getting better all the time. Will be a gun

 

[FairKouta]

Wait until he’s fit and got some games into him. Coming off an ACL and getting better all the time. Will be a gun

I am absolutely dismayed by our posters writing off setters. He gets enough of the pill. He plays with crippa. 3 more preseasons and if if he is not the 6 top players at our club then I will quit bigfooty. (barring injuries)

Top 5
Cripps
Mckay
Charlie
Weiters
walsh
setters