Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Yojimbo]

You just compared Schache and English?

That’s like comparing Bont to Liam Jones

MD my man where are you buying your biscuits ? Who is the better full back Bont or L.Jizz ?
I don't get it with Tim English, yeah he has the "P" word potential, but ScragCity nailed it
with his prophetic "English on the wing" post. Work on his forward craft start him as a
permanent forward pocket who rucks in the forward line. Last year versus Port Melbourne
in the VFL they rucked English in the boggy centre for three quarters and played BTC at
full forward for three quarters until English broke down "SURPRISE" not really, poor
development 101 worse I have seen "EVER". I am surprised English was a first round pick,
but not surprised no one with a pick above us took him, I think we get him with the
Lipinski pick to be honest our second that year.

 

[Dogsman16]

The forward line list management to me is probably the one I can't understand the clubs logic the most. Granted no doubt about it, a major reason for its significant decline was injury and retirement. Our 7 best forwards during the 2015 - 2016 era (Stringer, Crameri, Redpath, Picken, Smith, Dickson, Boyd) all fell off the cliff post 2016. The other (Cordy) was shuffled directly back to the backline. I mean from these players we got nearly no contribution at all post grand final. It hurt us badly. At the very least we probably thought Stringer, Redpath, Smith and Boyd were all young enough to play significant roles for our forward line going into 2018 and beyond. Instead we got Zilch. I understand we were at long odds to replicate that level of quality.

But the structure of our forward line and what type of forward line we put on the park, completely changed direction as a result. In my mind there are the two types of forward lines you can develop. The hawthorn (Clarkson model) of so much firepower and different avenues to goal (in other words a forward line stacked full of A graders). Even still the star studded hawks forward line al had different roles but gelled together. Or you can develop (2016 WB - 2017 Rich) pressure model. Having enough marking representation so you can bring the ball to ground but not too tall so the ball isn't trampolined out of the forward line. One A grade threat surrounded by role players who aren't liabilities in terms of defensive pressure and can also chip in with 2 - 3 goals.

Apart from Naughton being a significant upgrade on Cordy in terms of scoring firepower we hardly replaced anyone from that 2015-2016 forward group. Lloyd replaced Dickson in that finishing role and that's it. There was no direct replacement for the pressure specialists in Picken and Smith. No direct Forward/Ruck replacement for Boyd. No A grade medium replacement for Stringer.

The only role out of the 4 that the club attempted to fill was the Wingard trade which whilst close we didn't pull off. You win some you lose some. But its the other 3 roles (2 pressure smalls and one Forward/ruck) which I find most difficult to comprehend. Why was the 50/50 split forward/ruck model not perservered with. Why are inside mids being pushed into roles that should be filled by quicker, more skilled forwards who can at very least be fast enough to build the perceived threat of a run down tackle.

Our 2016 premiership showed you don't need a forward line full of A grade stars. Richmond 2017 premiership showed that the pressure model is effective and not a one off. Why was this method abandoned. At the moment our forward line has no method towards victory unless there is complete domination in the midfield.

I want to us to return to it. We don't have the big club appeal to get a star studded forward line. But we can go back to a proven model that we and other clubs have used to succeed. Start by pushing English into the forward/ruck role. I don't see anyway of filling the others role until the offseason but a medium/third tall forward and two quick pressure heavy players are required to completely overhaul our forward line. Darling and Curnow to be priority one. If that fails Hugh Greenwood to be the 3rd tall and spend more money on a higher quality small forward like Papley. The options are there. Time for us to explore them all.

FWIW Geelong completely transformed there forward line in one offseason. Rohan, Dahlhaus and the introduction of Miers balanced their forward line nicely. Now the forward 6 have distinct roles. Ablett the finisher, Hawkins the main key forward, Rohan the third tall, 2 speedy pressure types in Dahlhaus and Myers. And space for forward/ruck in Ratugolea.

We can do the same.

 

[Mattdougie]

MD my man where are you buying your biscuits ? Who is the better full back Bont or L.Jizz ?
I don't get it with Tim English, yeah he has the "P" word potential, but ScragCity nailed it
with his prophetic "English on the wing" post. Work on his forward craft start him as a
permanent forward pocket who rucks in the forward line. Last year versus Port Melbourne
in the VFL they rucked English in the boggy centre for three quarters and played BTC at
full forward for three quarters until English broke down "SURPRISE" not really, poor
development 101 worse I have seen "EVER". I am surprised English was a first round pick,
but not surprised no one with a pick above us took him, I think we get him with the
Lipinski pick to be honest our second that year.

You mentioned scrag and I just stopped reading coz from then on it is irrelevant sorry.

 

[TMoney22]

The recruitment of Duryea was downright bizarre.

More bizarre is drafting Cal Porter when we didnt learn from Hrovat, there will never be a place for that type of player in our midfield.

 

[Draft Pick]

The forward line list management to me is probably the one I can't understand the clubs logic the most. Granted no doubt about it, a major reason for its significant decline was injury and retirement. Our 7 best forwards during the 2015 - 2016 era (Stringer, Crameri, Redpath, Picken, Smith, Dickson, Boyd) all fell off the cliff post 2016. The other (Cordy) was shuffled directly back to the backline. I mean from these players we got nearly no contribution at all post grand final. It hurt us badly. At the very least we probably thought Stringer, Redpath, Smith and Boyd were all young enough to play significant roles for our forward line going into 2018 and beyond. Instead we got Zilch. I understand we were at long odds to replicate that level of quality.

But the structure of our forward line and what type of forward line we put on the park, completely changed direction as a result. In my mind there are the two types of forward lines you can develop. The hawthorn (Clarkson model) of so much firepower and different avenues to goal (in other words a forward line stacked full of A graders). Even still the star studded hawks forward line al had different roles but gelled together. Or you can develop (2016 WB - 2017 Rich) pressure model. Having enough marking representation so you can bring the ball to ground but not too tall so the ball isn't trampolined out of the forward line. One A grade threat surrounded by role players who aren't liabilities in terms of defensive pressure and can also chip in with 2 - 3 goals.

Apart from Naughton being a significant upgrade on Cordy in terms of scoring firepower we hardly replaced anyone from that 2015-2016 forward group. Lloyd replaced Dickson in that finishing role and that's it. There was no direct replacement for the pressure specialists in Picken and Smith. No direct Forward/Ruck replacement for Boyd. No A grade medium replacement for Stringer.

The only role out of the 4 that the club attempted to fill was the Wingard trade which whilst close we didn't pull off. You win some you lose some. But its the other 3 roles (2 pressure smalls and one Forward/ruck) which I find most difficult to comprehend. Why was the 50/50 split forward/ruck model not perservered with. Why are inside mids being pushed into roles that should be filled by quicker, more skilled forwards who can at very least be fast enough to build the perceived threat of a run down tackle.

Our 2016 premiership showed you don't need a forward line full of A grade stars. Richmond 2017 premiership showed that the pressure model is effective and not a one off. Why was this method abandoned. At the moment our forward line has no method towards victory unless there is complete domination in the midfield.

I want to us to return to it. We don't have the big club appeal to get a star studded forward line. But we can go back to a proven model that we and other clubs have used to succeed. Start by pushing English into the forward/ruck role. I don't see anyway of filling the others role until the offseason but a medium/third tall forward and two quick pressure heavy players are required to completely overhaul our forward line. Darling and Curnow to be priority one. If that fails Hugh Greenwood to be the 3rd tall and spend more money on a higher quality small forward like Papley. The options are there. Time for us to explore them all.

FWIW Geelong completely transformed there forward line in one offseason. Rohan, Dahlhaus and the introduction of Miers balanced their forward line nicely. Now the forward 6 have distinct roles. Ablett the finisher, Hawkins the main key forward, Rohan the third tall, 2 speedy pressure types in Dahlhaus and Myers. And space for forward/ruck in Ratugolea.

We can do the same.

In theory this is would be a great plan for October. However,
Is Curnow out of contract. If not why would Carlton trade him.
Same with all the others like Papley?
All very well to dream about getting this player and that player but unless they are OOC free agents it really is at the discretion of of their current club. Maybe Darling could be a chance as West Coast May be interested in early/mid range draft picks we could provide this year, and maybe next year.
Rohan came cheap and Dalhause was a free agent as far as Geelong are concerned last year.

 

[mattwa]

Need to lock down English asap. He has out performed ruckman like cox and gawn in his early years (dean cox was a spud till he developed). Timmy is perfect for the modern game. Would be more focused on resigning him than bringing in anyone to the club

 

[Yojimbo]

(dean cox was a spud till he developed)

Cox and Sandilands both rookies, they should change the rookie list to the ruckie list, perfect
place for talls to develop with little expense matched to little output.

 

[mattwa]

Cox and Sandilands both rookies, they should change the rookie list to the ruckie list, perfect
place for talls to develop with little expense matched to little output.

I think all these early battles is going to do Timmy some good. His education is being fast tracked and hopefully once his body develops he wants some payback on some of the baths if has recieved. If he bulks up he has a very similar toolset to grundy (who is clearly the best ruck in the comp)

 

[Yojimbo]

I think all these early battles is going to do Timmy some good. His education is being fast tracked and hopefully once his body develops he wants some payback on some of the baths if has recieved. If he bulks up he has a very similar toolset to grundy (who is clearly the best ruck in the comp)

I think we all hope so, as we desperately need a decent ruck at the moment. Brodie Grundy was always a ruck nothing else, his follow up
and involvement is the best, but Max Gawn is the best at traditional ruck work. English was drafted at nineteen so he did not get drafted
at eighteen because he was growing from his 184 cm mid field body in fact he grew 21 cm to 205 cm hardly a traditional ruck start to
life. You can clearly see his midfield instincts are more pronounced than his ruck instincts which is why he is viewed as such a unique
prospect, I am super keen to limit the collision work and hone his forward craft as another contested marking beast in a three-pronged
taller forward line as he grows and fills out.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

Tim English has a zero percent chance of leaving for WA.

How do I know this? Have you seen his gf? He aint leaving Vic, especially with her now getting a run with the Melb Vixens.

Safe as houses.

 

[footyfan000001]

Tim English has a zero percent chance of leaving for WA.

How do I know this? Have you seen his gf? He aint leaving Vic, especially with her now getting a run with the Melb Vixens.

Safe as houses.

Now we just need the club to pay for their wedding and buy them a house in Melbourne

 

[0utsider]

Tim English has a zero percent chance of leaving for WA.

How do I know this? Have you seen his gf? He aint leaving Vic, especially with her now getting a run with the Melb Vixens.

Safe as houses.

In my experience, everyone who moves to Melbourne from Perth is very happy to be away from there. Melbourne is undoubtably one of the best places to live in the world if you can afford it and he definitely can. Plus he’s punching massively so if the missus wants to stay he’s going nowhere.

 

[Mattdougie]

In my experience, everyone who moves to Melbourne from Perth is very happy to be away from there. Melbourne is undoubtably one of the best places to live in the world if you can afford it and he definitely can. Plus he’s punching massively so if the missus wants to stay he’s going nowhere.

Hamling
Hogan
Bennell
Lobb
Kelly
And so on

 

[Mattdougie]

The forward line list management to me is probably the one I can't understand the clubs logic the most. Granted no doubt about it, a major reason for its significant decline was injury and retirement. Our 7 best forwards during the 2015 - 2016 era (Stringer, Crameri, Redpath, Picken, Smith, Dickson, Boyd) all fell off the cliff post 2016. The other (Cordy) was shuffled directly back to the backline. I mean from these players we got nearly no contribution at all post grand final. It hurt us badly. At the very least we probably thought Stringer, Redpath, Smith and Boyd were all young enough to play significant roles for our forward line going into 2018 and beyond. Instead we got Zilch. I understand we were at long odds to replicate that level of quality.

But the structure of our forward line and what type of forward line we put on the park, completely changed direction as a result. In my mind there are the two types of forward lines you can develop. The hawthorn (Clarkson model) of so much firepower and different avenues to goal (in other words a forward line stacked full of A graders). Even still the star studded hawks forward line al had different roles but gelled together. Or you can develop (2016 WB - 2017 Rich) pressure model. Having enough marking representation so you can bring the ball to ground but not too tall so the ball isn't trampolined out of the forward line. One A grade threat surrounded by role players who aren't liabilities in terms of defensive pressure and can also chip in with 2 - 3 goals.

Apart from Naughton being a significant upgrade on Cordy in terms of scoring firepower we hardly replaced anyone from that 2015-2016 forward group. Lloyd replaced Dickson in that finishing role and that's it. There was no direct replacement for the pressure specialists in Picken and Smith. No direct Forward/Ruck replacement for Boyd. No A grade medium replacement for Stringer.

The only role out of the 4 that the club attempted to fill was the Wingard trade which whilst close we didn't pull off. You win some you lose some. But its the other 3 roles (2 pressure smalls and one Forward/ruck) which I find most difficult to comprehend. Why was the 50/50 split forward/ruck model not perservered with. Why are inside mids being pushed into roles that should be filled by quicker, more skilled forwards who can at very least be fast enough to build the perceived threat of a run down tackle.

Our 2016 premiership showed you don't need a forward line full of A grade stars. Richmond 2017 premiership showed that the pressure model is effective and not a one off. Why was this method abandoned. At the moment our forward line has no method towards victory unless there is complete domination in the midfield.

I want to us to return to it. We don't have the big club appeal to get a star studded forward line. But we can go back to a proven model that we and other clubs have used to succeed. Start by pushing English into the forward/ruck role. I don't see anyway of filling the others role until the offseason but a medium/third tall forward and two quick pressure heavy players are required to completely overhaul our forward line. Darling and Curnow to be priority one. If that fails Hugh Greenwood to be the 3rd tall and spend more money on a higher quality small forward like Papley. The options are there. Time for us to explore them all.

FWIW Geelong completely transformed there forward line in one offseason. Rohan, Dahlhaus and the introduction of Miers balanced their forward line nicely. Now the forward 6 have distinct roles. Ablett the finisher, Hawkins the main key forward, Rohan the third tall, 2 speedy pressure types in Dahlhaus and Myers. And space for forward/ruck in Ratugolea.

We can do the same.

We are not getting Darling or Curnow.

Just not happening in any universe

 

[BRWB]

Don't see the problems with English. Is progressing well.

Don't see the comparison with Schache. English is aggressive on the ground and stands under the high one. Completely different.

 

[Dogsman16]

We are not getting Darling or Curnow.

Just not happening in any universe

I think we are a very slight chance. What I’m more suggesting is that we pursue every option irrespective of how unlikely it is.

 

[Southern 8]

Ben Reid and Alex Sexton are two names I would be interested in as Free agents. Does anyone know if they have resigned during year? Maybe even have a look at reuniting Sam with Ben. Ben has played well this year but very injury prone so a risk. Would be a good foil for Naughton or help down back.

 

[DognBones]

Ben Reid and Alex Sexton are two names I would be interested in as Free agents. Does anyone know if they have resigned during year? Maybe even have a look at reuniting Sam with Ben. Ben has played well this year but very injury prone so a risk. Would be a good foil for Naughton or help down back.

Sexton is signed until 2023, Reid's an Unrestricted Free Agent this year.

 

[Dogsman16]

Ben Reid and Alex Sexton are two names I would be interested in as Free agents. Does anyone know if they have resigned during year? Maybe even have a look at reuniting Sam with Ben. Ben has played well this year but very injury prone so a risk. Would be a good foil for Naughton or help down back.

I think the Reid option should be looked at heavily. Ben Reid. Far better than all the secondary forward options we have. I think clubs get rid of the 30 plus players too quickly sometimes.

 

[Mattdougie]

I think we are a very slight chance. What I’m more suggesting is that we pursue every option irrespective of how unlikely it is.

If love to agree with you mate but we are zero chance of getting those blokes unless we pay them WAY over the what they are worth and even then I don’t think so.

 

[Dogsman16]

If love to agree with you mate but we are zero chance of getting those blokes unless we pay them WAY over the what they are worth and even then I don’t think so.

I think your right. We have to pay way over for one of them. Might be in the minority but I would do so.

 

[VitalDread]

Hamling
Hogan
Bennell
Lobb
Kelly
And so on

I didn't realize that Bennell and Lobb played for a Victorian side....

 

[Mattdougie]

I didn't realize that Bennell and Lobb played for a Victorian side....

My apologies I wasn’t aware only WA people that live in Victoria are the only ones that go home.

Would u like me to be completely @nal and list the dozens of WA players that have gone home from Vic?

 

[mattwa]

In my experience, everyone who moves to Melbourne from Perth is very happy to be away from there. Melbourne is undoubtably one of the best places to live in the world if you can afford it and he definitely can. Plus he’s punching massively so if the missus wants to stay he’s going nowhere.

I moved from Perth to Melb in Jan and believe me I am not going back. May have put on a few kgs around the waistline due to all the nice food/footy games I go too but I much prefer it over here. It seems like all our players are pretty tight so retention I think we will be ok with its just luring the big fish that we struggle with....

 

[fronkalicious]

We have the most cap space in the league. Comfortably.