Bluemour Discussion Thread XVI - Facts Not Welcome

[gbatman]

I think this trade may get a little closer to outstanding if Stocker proves closer to the 6 we rated him than the 19th we paid for him and if we're able to win enough games to minimise the differential. I'm bullish enough to think that both will happen.

In 3 years time I hope we can look back on this and call it the best trade ever.

The problem with this trade is that people want to see it as a win. It's not about that, it's not about beating Adelaide at something, it's about getting the best result for us.

Stocker turns out to be a good player and this year's first pick is used well then what Adelaide do with their first pick is irrelevant.

We rated Stocker at 6, we will get Adelaide's first pick which will be around 10-14. If you could trade pick 1-4 for picks 6 and 10-14 you probably would.

Everytime people in the media talk about this they forget we took a player rated at 6 and they completely forget that we have Adelaide's first round pick this year. You would think we traded this year's first for last year's 19th. This is a good trade for us.

If the players we get don't turn out then that's not the fact it was a bad trade, it's because it was bad recruiting.

In the end I think Stocker is going to be pretty good and I think that we will trade Adelaide's first away this season as we would have if we had our first so it's going to work out well.

 

[DollarsandSense]

If you don't think Setterfield has been butchering the ball then you haven't been watching Carlton play. I agree he has more upside than Shiel but Will's disposal is not AFL standard at this stage.

Ohhhh I've been watching. I didn't say that Setterfield hasn't been butchering. just that Shiel has and that Setterfield will be better long term for us.

 

[Sector 7G]

The problem with this trade is that people want to see it as a win. It's not about that, it's not about beating Adelaide at something, it's about getting the best result for us.

Stocker turns out to be a good player and this year's first pick is used well then what Adelaide do with their first pick is irrelevant.

We rated Stocker at 6, we will get Adelaide's first pick which will be around 10-14. If you could trade pick 1-4 for picks 6 and 10-14 you probably would.

Everytime people in the media talk about this they forget we took a player rated at 6 and they completely forget that we have Adelaide's first round pick this year. You would thing we traded this year's first for last year's 19th. This is a good trade for us.

If the players we get don't turn out then that's not the fact it was a bad trade, it's because it was bad recruiting.

In the end I think Stocker is going to be pretty good and I think that we will trade Adelaide's first away this season as we would have if we had our first so it's going to work out well.

2 weeks ago the narrative was that the top 2 players were head and shoulders above the rest and were better than Walsh. So-so first games in the champs and it is looking much more even and the difference between 1 and 12 not as great was made out.

 

[blue healer]

I am absolutely dismayed by our posters writing off setters. He gets enough of the pill. He plays with crippa. 3 more preseasons and if if he is not the 6 top players at our club then I will quit bigfooty. (barring injuries)

Top 5
Cripps
Mckay
Charlie
Weiters
walsh
setters

I wonder how many of us would have said that about Kennedy when we traded him in?

Not sure that too many have written off Setterfield (I certainly haven't) but some of us prefer to label players as champions when they actually become that.

Having said that, I think Walsh is one already.

 

[gbatman]

Setterfield was a pick 5, with very little senior football through injury, we have recruited him off his under 18 footy. He's got a few years age into him but no development. The guy is behind a few years in his development, he needs another good season or two in the gym and on the track. He's also a 2016 draftee and that year's group is just starting to come through now.

He's playing ok. I'll be expecting a fair bit more next season though.

 

[gbatman]

2 weeks ago the narrative was that the top 2 players were head and shoulders above the rest and were better than Walsh. So-so first games in the champs and it is looking much more even and the difference between 1 and 12 not as great was made out.

Which is so often the case. Up coming players talked way up then it begins to come back down. If they were as good as Walsh and Adelaide get access to them then it's a bit of a miss but if we get the mature players we really need by trading the pick we have then it's completely irrelevant.

I think we were always going to try hard to trade our first round pick in this season's draft and that was a big factor as to why we weren't to worried about downgrading it.

It comes down to needs, we need young but mature top shelf players, as good as the draftees are they are second priority to our needs and as long as the trade doesn't restrict us from trading in what we really want this year then we are way ahead.

 

[Bostonian]

I am absolutely dismayed by our posters writing off setters. He gets enough of the pill. He plays with crippa. 3 more preseasons and if if he is not the 6 top players at our club then I will quit bigfooty. (barring injuries)

Top 5
Cripps
Mckay
Charlie
Weiters
walsh
setters

Nobody is writing him off. They just aren't projecting based on feelings and wishful thinking.

It's based on his play at present. As such most people have a wait and see attitude rather than project players who've not shown star quality to turn out to be a star.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Not really a good example.

GWS were given unprecendant draft concessions, extra cap room and extra list spots. During his time there he picked Orourke with pick 2 and Plowman pick 3.
Keep in mind GWS still are yet to make a grand final, despite the massive leg up SOS received.

Picking Lobb and Williams with late pick is more of an example i think we should be looking at.

Agreed. We've got oodles of young talent, but bugger all else - which is what I'm most critical of. It left Bolton up **** creek without a paddle and he's been made accountable. I'm primarily questioning what role SOS played in that

And sadly, Willo is looking increasingly like a bust

No draft selections can be a bust because of injuries after they were drafted.
Check what selection willo was in the draft as well.

 

[FairKouta]

Nobody is writing him off. They just aren't projecting based on feelings and wishful thinking.

It's based on his play at present. As such most people have a wait and see attitude rather than project players who've not shown star quality to turn out to be a star.

I have seen enough in him to suggest to me personally that he will live up to his top 5 kick his kicking will need major work but his work around the contest is his strength. It's not wishful thinking on my part. Pickett on the other hand was all wishful thinking and that didn't end well. Let's hope i am right about setters for the sake of our club aye.

 

[Robertio]

Nobody is writing him off. They just aren't projecting based on feelings and wishful thinking.

It's based on his play at present. As such most people have a wait and see attitude rather than project players who've not shown star quality to turn out to be a star.

I like what i am seeing.

 

[Matty411]

Wait until he’s fit and got some games into him. Coming off an ACL and getting better all the time. Will be a gun

Setterfield was a pick 5, with very little senior football through injury, we have recruited him off his under 18 footy. He's got a few years age into him but no development. The guy is behind a few years in his development, he needs another good season or two in the gym and on the track. He's also a 2016 draftee and that year's group is just starting to come through now.

He's playing ok. I'll be expecting a fair bit more next season though.

On Setters, I thought he was much improved on the weekend and held us his end. Moved around the ground more freely and disposal was a little better (still needs work). Is one of the guys that we need to get 50 games into ASAP as will be a gun.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

We all laughed at Bulldogs supporters who were talking about landing McKay/Curnow from us .... and now we are discussing getting the Bont

 

[PrinceCharles]

Agreed. We've got oodles of young talent, but bugger all else - which is what I'm most critical of. It left Bolton up **** creek without a paddle and he's been made accountable. I'm primarily questioning what role SOS played in that

And sadly, Willo is looking increasingly like a bust

Parking the fact that calling him a bust is absolutely ludicrous. Your reasoning I assume is due to his injury, which for some reason you're assuming is permanent, then you can't possibly claim that it's SOS's fault.

Also not his fault that he's operating in a climate where players have all the say and the midfielders that have been available have come from clubs that had just been/going through rebuilds and therefore wanted immediate finals football. Not much he can do if a player doesn't want to play for us, if anything that's more on the coach too.

 

[jezzajay]

Imagine if we got the Bont!

That doggies supporter on the main board... You know, BlokeOfPotteryMaterial, would probably call Bont the biggest bust in the AFL

Another A-grade Carlton troll he is...love the fact that we haven't lost the hatred against us...there are still people out there that remember us destroying them for years and are shitting themselves that we are not far away from doing so again.
Bring it...

 

[Aphrodite]

We all laughed at Bulldogs supporters who were talking about landing McKay/Curnow from us .... and now we are discussing getting the Bont

As if that's going to happen.

Silly season starting early!

 

[smashbox gill]

In the last 2 years there having been consistent post on bigfooty if people who had written off:
- Mackay
- SPS
- Weitering
- LOB
Along with people a month ago wanting to trade out Charlie

It’s so annoying, when people write off young players

 

[HARKER]

In the last 2 years there having been consistent post on bigfooty if people who had written off:
- Mackay
- SPS
- Weitering
- LOB
Along with people a month ago wanting to trade out Charlie

It’s so annoying, when people write off young players

One can assess those players though and not simply throw a blanket called 'writing off' across the whole.

Every player has pros and cons and that's what should be discussed. Don't sell up and don't sell down. Simply relate what one sees.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Actually, I am pretty sure that G.Whitlam was the visionary that purchased that painting when he was P.M. and was accused of wasting taxpayers $$$ on a creation by some guy named Sidney Pollock............opps!!!

Jackson Pollock.
Why is the art world so Sidney centric?

 

[Robertio]

Another A-grade Carlton troll he is...love the fact that we haven't lost the hatred against us...there are still people out there that remember us destroying them for years and are ****ting themselves that we are not far away from doing so again.
Bring it...

Yep, i love it, the sleeping giant is nearly awake and they don't like it.

 

[Arr0w]

In the last 2 years there having been consistent post on bigfooty if people who had written off:
- Mackay
- SPS
- Weitering
- LOB
Along with people a month ago wanting to trade out Charlie

It’s so annoying, when people write off young players

That will never change.

It's either linear improvement or GTFO

 

[bigdog43]

Setterfield had a piece of play on the weekend where the pickup and handball was so clean and effortless but it shouldn’t have been. Talent is there, his body is not, yet.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I can see the reason why he did it, but should have used a different player. This week Teague better have someone sitting at half forward with one eye on that little bloke that wears a helmet, he's been getting cheap possies all season.

Reckon it'd be a good task for Fisher and Cunners on rotation.

Caleb Daniel isn't particularly quick, he's just smart with his positioning and doesn't need much space to move the ball to advantage. Zac and Dave should be able to work off him at the stoppages, and stick with him on the rebound to old him up and apply pressure to his disposal.

 

[VeinGlorious]

The problem with this trade is that people want to see it as a win. It's not about that, it's not about beating Adelaide at something, it's about getting the best result for us.

Stocker turns out to be a good player and this year's first pick is used well then what Adelaide do with their first pick is irrelevant.

We rated Stocker at 6, we will get Adelaide's first pick which will be around 10-14. If you could trade pick 1-4 for picks 6 and 10-14 you probably would.

Everytime people in the media talk about this they forget we took a player rated at 6 and they completely forget that we have Adelaide's first round pick this year. You would think we traded this year's first for last year's 19th. This is a good trade for us.

If the players we get don't turn out then that's not the fact it was a bad trade, it's because it was bad recruiting.

In the end I think Stocker is going to be pretty good and I think that we will trade Adelaide's first away this season as we would have if we had our first so it's going to work out well.

Great post


And we got two firsts for Bryce.

Lolcrows

 

[Bluey24]

No draft selections can be a bust because of injuries after they were drafted.
Check what selection willo was in the draft as well.

A bust is a bust, in my view

 

[Blue__Balls]

In the last 2 years there having been consistent post on bigfooty if people who had written off:
- Mackay
- SPS
- Weitering
- LOB
Along with people a month ago wanting to trade out Charlie

It’s so annoying, when people write off young players

Hey - that Charlie talk was from me - and nobody was calling for him to be traded. Just saying if someone like Charlie got lured away by another club with a huge paycheck, that we'd still be able to field a solid selection of key forwards and would get plenty back with which to strengthen the midfield.

Let's not go putting words in people's mouths.