Bluemour Discussion Thread XVI - Facts Not Welcome

[JustaBattler]

I don't mind repeating the obvious- hard to criticize forward (or back) play when midfield is a rabble. People forget that when Charlie was out injured and even before- McGovern was the forward who actually kicked key goals and sparked the side. Harry had a few strong marking games as well. The challenge for the coach and players is to get each of the talls working together - each of them has been criticized for not leading with more effort by many commentators - I suspect that they aren't leading aggressively - because all they have experienced from midfield delivery in general play is shyte.

 

[F_therest]

I'd be a little perplexed at bringing Roos in at this point. Our situation is not like Melbourne's. At Melbourne they essentially needed a rebuild, and that's what Roos did. Then he taught them the structure and defensive side of the game with the plan to open up the game plan when Goodwin took over.

We've already gone through the Roos faze. Bolton initiated the rebuild and implemented a stiff structure built around developing the defensive side of the team. Now we're at the point where we need top open up the gameplan and learn to attack consistently. Getting Roos in now is a backward step imo

The caveat being as a head coach; if it's another role then that's a different story. But as a coach I think bringing in Roos now is a bit redundant.

No one's really talked about Roos being head coach.

All the talk has been around him being in an advisory type role. Put it this way, i'd rather him than Walls supporting our coaching group.

 

[F_therest]

I think the recruitment of McGovern was driven by what we could get, not what we needed.

I think McGovern will be really good for us...i think people going a little hard with the criticism.

I actually think he does compliment our forward line alongside Charlie & McKay. Can take a mark but also kick goals from general play. Have already seen he's capable on both his right and left foot.

I also get the impression he's a bit of an organiser down there...in the forward huddles he seems to do most of the talking. He's more experienced than Harry & Charlie plus worked with Teague before, so probably knows more about the positioning we're looking for.

Do admit he needs to get fitter though, but i'm comfortable with his recruitment.

 

[Stamos]

I think the recruitment of McGovern was driven by what we could get, not what we needed.

I don't agree. SOS and Bolton wanted McGovern for 2 years before we got him, he was the first priority we asked for when Gibbs first wanted to go home.
There was also Judd's rating of both him, and the importance of his position on Footy Classified during last season.

I think he was very much a targeted acquisition. He's got match-winning ability, just needs to get fitter and more consistent.

 

[happydude]

I don't mind repeating the obvious- hard to criticize forward (or back) play when midfield is a rabble. People forget that when Charlie was out injured and even before- McGovern was the forward who actually kicked key goals and sparked the side. Harry had a few strong marking games as well. The challenge for the coach and players is to get each of the talls working together - each of them has been criticized for not leading with more effort by many commentators - I suspect that they aren't leading aggressively - because all they have experienced from midfield delivery in general play is *****.

This sort of ties into my post.

If people think that forwards are sitting around waiting for the mids to just get the ball so they can lead they havent watched a game.

we have certain situations and zones to stand in as play develops and then more positions to move to providing short and long options.

I suggest people watch how play unfolds down the ground before we take that kick into the forward line.

Our mids developing and adding another big body will help our forwards immensely as well as our defense.

IMO most of our game day issues stem from 3 issues
1 Mids - getting out muscled and tackles being shaken off.
2 Lack of a small forward (quick crumber)
3 Lack of a back pocket

they aren't our only issues but they are the biggest

 

[ferrisb]

I think McGovern will be really good for us...i think people going a little hard with the criticism.

I actually think he does compliment our forward line alongside Charlie & McKay. Can take a mark but also kick goals from general play. Have already seen he's capable on both his right and left foot.

I also get the impression he's a bit of an organiser down there...in the forward huddles he seems to do most of the talking. He's more experienced than Harry & Charlie plus worked with Teague before, so probably knows more about the positioning we're looking for.

Do admit he needs to get fitter though, but i'm comfortable with his recruitment.

Agree with all of that. I think the criticisms are

We are probably overpaying a little on salary (but we have cash to throw around)
You could argue that we overpaid a little in draft currency
You could argue that we don't really need him at all. Or at least that we didn't need him as much as a mature mid.

I think we identified him as an experienced, talented player that wanted out. We didn't need him as much as a mature mid, but we did chase Shiel hard only to miss at the last minute. If we didn't get McGovern, we're even further back.

At the end of the day, Charlie and Harry are still young. As are Cuningham, JSOS, Pickett (still on our list when McGovern recruited) etc. McGovern provides some extra talent and experience (and is still young enough to have plenty of football ahead).

Some people have pointed out that he is not a main man, he is a 3rd banana. Well guess what, we have two elite fwd prospects for him to prosper behind and do his thing. And our interim coach (ex-fwd line coach) has runs on the board with getting three tall targets working well together.

 

[Benaly28]

Just an interesting discussion at half way I’d say our top 5 in the B & F would look something like this.

1.Obvious
2.Weitering
3.Walsh
4.ECurnow
5.Thomas

 

[2SOS]

Just an interesting discussion at half way I’d say our top 5 in the B & F would look something like this.

1.Obvious
2.Weitering
3.Walsh
4.ECurnow
5.Thomas

Id swap Curnow for Fisher.
But it just shows how good Walsh is to step straight into an AFL side and perform the way he has. Once the kid fills out he will be scary

 

[cfc4life]

Just an interesting discussion at half way I’d say our top 5 in the B & F would look something like this.

1.Obvious
2.Weitering
3.Walsh
4.ECurnow
5.Thomas

Reckon Jones might have done enough early on to crack the top 5 still at this stage.

 

[JustaBattler]

This sort of ties into my post.

If people think that forwards are sitting around waiting for the mids to just get the ball so they can lead they havent watched a game.

we have certain situations and zones to stand in as play develops and then more positions to move to providing short and long options.

I suggest people watch how play unfolds down the ground before we take that kick into the forward line.

Our mids developing and adding another big body will help our forwards immensely as well as our defense.

IMO most of our game day issues stem from 3 issues
1 Mids - getting out muscled and tackles being shaken off.
2 Lack of a small forward (quick crumber)
3 Lack of a back pocket

they aren't our only issues but they are the biggest

I think midfield physical weakness, lack of endurance and the 'dumb' that goes with this lack of experience lets call it - is the alpha and omega of Carlton's situation and woes atm. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not concerned at all re crumbing forward/back pocket types - they are easier to get/make from within.

Genuinely believe that even one class developed mid added to this list would have seen a few of the close games actually go our way. I'm liking what I am seeing in 'cameo' performances from Setterfield/Dow and Walsh on ball - but each of them is better on the outside in some space atm -as is Fisher/LoB and SPS. Pity Stocker has that nasty foot injury - I see him as a natural on baller as well - and a better kick than all bar LoB.

One decent mid added to this bunch and Crippa and Ed and the side becomes a totally different proposition next year- not to mention the inevitable improvement with another pre-season etc in all the kids.

and to bring it all back on track re Coach rumours - I reckon the decision on who to go with is probably the most important decision the Club will make in the next 3 years - sounds obvious I know- but level of difficulty involved in getting it right from here - I reckon has increased not decreased.

My bones tell me - Teague wouldn't be a the worst decision we could make- someone like Scott or Voss is higher risk - they would signal a new regime and all that goes with that - Crazy Vossy or 'sacked' Scott - hmmmm not so sure either woudl eb a reason to see increased membership numbers tbh.

2-3 wins in second half would make things interesting - any more than that and Teague is a definite in my book - the hole to plug would be midfield coaching at Carlton - that would be be #1 priority get - added to 1-2 developed bodies and all the ingredients are in place. We were close last year- with Shiel -need to convert this year.

Get a couple of experienced decent genuine B+ players in and I'm not discounting finals capability next year - you can sense the side is ready for a few breakout games sooner rather than later.

 

[passmark]

I think the recruitment of McGovern was driven by what we could get, not what we needed.

Quite possibly but 'm very bullish on McGov if he can stay fit and focused.

I think a mobile third tall (and a proven clutch player at that) is the sort of player who doesn't win you every game but might win a few big ones.

I thought I'd read Teague suggest McGov had been sacrificing his game for most of the season to help the game plan.

He actually would have had a very good night Saturday if his timing was right. He almost took a spectacular pack mark early on with great timing and then proceeded to jump early for the next 3 efforts. If he'd taken them all they were just about all sodas as goals.

He won't have a game like that again.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It's amazing how many people don't understand basic strategy in the forward line.
We are set With Mckay, Curnow and McGovern. What we are missing is a good small forward (I hope we target one in the draft now the PIckett risk didn't pay off)

In today's game we wont see all 3 dominate a game but you'll see 90% of the time one of them will kick a bag and the other 2 look poor on the stat sheet because of game plan etc.
1 of them will kick a bag, 2 of the 3 will kick 3 goals or all 3 will kick 2 goals.

Watch the opposition shift from Mckay to Charlie then Charlie will go quiet while Mckay takes advantage of the space and less attention.

this. It’s so easy now to shut down a single tall forward target. Look at McKay, starts off like a house on fire and teams put work into him and he’s back to 6 contested marks from the last 7 games. You need that spread of talent down their to stretch defences. It’s why someone like Polson who has a hell of a crack still hurts us. Teams just don’t have to worry about him offensively at all meaning it makes the rest of the forwards jobs tougher.

 

[Arr0w]

Pie player caught betting, who could it be?

 

[BrianSetzer]

What's the obsession with Roos? He won a premiership, great, so has Worsfold!! I don't want him in any capacity. I personally think it'll be more the money which will sway him if it did happen. It's a no from me but what would I know.

 

[ferrisb]

Pie player caught betting, who could it be?

Tyson bet a sack of gold....

 

[Blue Flame]

I think we would play a good brand of footy under Voss, just not sure he is the right fit

Just don't see why people think Voss is a better fit than Teague

 

[Michael Jezz]

Hasn't our scoring improved with recruitment of Mcgovern? The opposition have to respect him, free up Charlie and Harry. Mcgovern's tepid season could produce 30 goals

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Just don't see why people think Voss is a better fit than Teague

I haven't seen anything that says Teague can't coach, been a tick on basically every front other than someone finally figuring out how to get Samo to rock up week in week out. If someone figures that out give them 20 mil a year, cuz when hes on he's something else. Loving the new Teague regime, Charlies not moving out of the 50 and Ed is back playing on ball

 

[bmaurizio]

I don't agree. SOS and Bolton wanted McGovern for 2 years before we got him, he was the first priority we asked for when Gibbs first wanted to go home.
There was also Judd's rating of both him, and the importance of his position on Footy Classified during last season.

I think he was very much a targeted acquisition. He's got match-winning ability, just needs to get fitter and more consistent.

Mitch will excel next year, most high profile players need at least a season to acclimatize to new team environment.
He’s got magic, we need to temper our expectations for the remainder of 2019 campaign.

 

[Iamcarlton]

100% Eskie. If we get a coach that needs a babysitter then they aren’t the right coach for Carlton IMO

Taking it the wrong way imo not about babysitting but ideas knowledge and also having a senior head that a new coach might actually take notice of .
As it seems that our assistant coaches may have been a total waste of time under Bolton on match day .
Was Bolton a better coach having the ideas of Neil Craig I don't know but the performances have gone backwards since his departure .
The more knowledge and experience that can be provided in the coach's box in whatever position in regard to the age of our list the better imo .
And if we go for a Voss or similar who has had little senior coaching experience even more important .

 

[bmaurizio]

I haven't seen anything that says Teague can't coach, been a tick on basically every front other than someone finally figuring out how to get Samo to rock up week in week out. If someone figures that out give them 20 mil a year, cuz when hes on he's something else. Loving the new Teague regime, Charlies not moving out of the 50 and Ed is back playing on ball

Coaching is a complex business so a few games rehearsal won’t cut the mustard .
A good coach is a special person , essential ingredient he inspires average footballers to better performances.
It takes amazing qualities and not so easy to find, patience.

 

[Aphrodite]

That was called Costa Norfordia driven by Captain Brad Scottino....

 

[jimsta10]

Ratt's is super keen to come back (from what I've been told).

 

[Aphrodite]

There it is ...


Marc Shmurf 3

I believe the AFL and Collingwood looking at a betting irregularity allegedly involving Collingwood’s Jaidyn Stephenson. More details to follow

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Coaching is a complex business so a few games rehearsal won’t cut the mustard .
A good coach is a special person , essential ingredient he inspires average footballers to better performances.
It takes amazing qualities and not so easy to find, patience.

well we've had 3 spirited fightbacks in 2 games, under Bolton we seemed to chuck in the towel once we got behind, all signs are positive so far is all im saying gotta see how the rest of the season pans out but it looks like the boys are right behind him