Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[petedavo]

Again, just a small piece of the puzzle. What are the chances that he's not the perp when Telstra fibres are found on the bodies AND his DNA is found AND computer evidence AND propensity AND so on and so forth, whatever the rest of the evidence may be...? Nothing on its own will convict him but all the pieces add up.

I can imagine at least one alternative scenario that could include most of this stuff reported by the media plus some more stuff related to the alternative scenario that adds up. Which I'd imagine the defence could propose. Whether that's enough to to cast reasonable doubt I suppose would depend on whether the alternative scenario could be proved to be impossible rather than improbable. Hopefully the prosecution will of considered all possible alternative explanations and have enough evidence to prove they're impossible. I'd imagine so, but we'll see how the trial plays out in the end.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Power Raid]

I'm speaking purely on the textile nature of things as it's something I have technical expertise in.

If all these pieces of evidence are only of the smallest trace amounts then it's not going to be as clear cut as many seem to think imo. The fact that this will be a judge only trial points further to the chance of the evidence not being weighted as heavily as a jury may have been.

lawyers close to the case suggest the DNA and other evidence is clear cut

the only place where the defence can poke holes is the QA/QC regarding the handling of evidence

 

[sprockets]

I'm speaking purely on the textile nature of things as it's something I have technical expertise in.

If all these pieces of evidence are only of the smallest trace amounts then it's not going to be as clear cut as many seem to think imo. The fact that this will be a judge only trial points further to the chance of the evidence not being weighted as heavily as a jury may have been.

I've sat on a jury in a historical child abuse case and tbh it takes a hell of a lot of time and luck to get enough good evidence for a conviction. There was no DNA in that case and it was made up mostly of witness evidence, including from the two girls allegedly abused and there was no way we were going to convict him. As the last witness called (obviously by his defense) he did however say something that would likely have swung the jury against him but the trial was aborted because when he said it he incriminated himself (not of the actual crime being tried).

We'll hear a lot of 'non-expert' witness testimony here but it won't count for a whole lot IMO and I think you're right that a conviction's not in the bag. They need as many little bits as they can get their hands on, hence the delays.

 

[BlueE]

I've sat on a jury in a historical child abuse case and tbh it takes a hell of a lot of time and luck to get enough good evidence for a conviction. There was no DNA in that case and it was made up mostly of witness evidence, including from the two girls allegedly abused and there was no way we were going to convict him. As the last witness called (obviously by his defense) he did however say something that would likely have swung the jury against him but the trial was aborted because when he said it he incriminated himself (not of the actual crime being tried).

We'll hear a lot of 'non-expert' witness testimony here but it won't count for a whole lot IMO and I think you're right that a conviction's not in the bag. They need as many little bits as they can get their hands on, hence the delays.

Hmmm no way you on a jury would consider convicting in a historical child abuse case just with evidence from the two girls allegedly abused? Would it surprise you that Appeal Judges in a current historical sexual abuse case made it clear that

If the jurors convicted based on the believably of the complainant and the possibility the offences could happen, then they reached a valid conclusion of guilt.

You're showing prejudice if you think it's not possible to convict on the believability of the of the two girls if the possibility of the offenses occurring was there.

 

[sprockets]

Hmmm no way you on a jury would consider convicting in a historical child abuse case just with evidence from the two girls allegedly abused? Would it surprise you that Appeal Judges in a current historical sexual abuse case made it clear that

If the jurors convicted based on the believably of the complainant and the possibility the offences could happen, then they reached a valid conclusion of guilt.

You're showing prejudice if you think it's not possible to convict on the believability of the of the two girls if the possibility of the offenses occurring was there.

I never said it's not possible to convict someone on the 'believability' of the complainant (another misquote). The jury can find someone guilty for a plethora of reasons, although it should always be beyond reasonable doubt, not on possibility. However, it'd take exceptional circumstances for it to happen and wouldn't have happened in the jury I sat with.

 

[craigos]

lawyers close to the case suggest the DNA and other evidence is clear cut

the only place where the defence can poke holes is the QA/QC regarding the handling of evidence

Classic lawyer mind games. Let the public know that it's going to be straight forward, puts pressure on the judge who the majority of the public will be expecting to come through with a guilty verdict. If it's a line call, that will play on the judges mind no matter how experienced and competent they are.

 

[Power Raid]

Classic lawyer mind games. Let the public know that it's going to be straight forward, puts pressure on the judge who the majority of the public will be expecting to come through with a guilty verdict. If it's a line call, that will play on the judges mind no matter how experienced and competent they are.

But the lawyers aren’t the lawyers in the case

Australian court systems are quite different to the US and very gentle affairs

 

[craigos]

But the lawyers aren’t the lawyers in the case

Australian court systems are quite different to the US and very gentle affairs

Then if they're not close to the case they're even less relevant. Basing their opinions on second hand information.

If they start drawing maps I'll give them a listen

 

[FeelingThroaty]

Pure conjecture from me re " stories and created content" from a computer to be possibly used in evidence.
There is an old adage in Police and legal circles " never ask a question you don't already know the answer to."
When someone was posting on the Gary Hughes newspaper blog re the Claremont Abductions/murders the question was asked on a national coverage level .." Has a serial killer blogged here.?'' Was the answer already known.?
Now nut jobs and Kooks are posting on internet forums on a 24/7 basis - let them that have not sinned cast the first stone.. (Blushes )..but i digress, every day millions of comments and theories pass without attention.
NOW what garnered such nationwide attention and coverage for the Hughes Blog ....did someone who thought they were invincible and SOOOOO clever after many years had passed ,get cocky enough to drop a couple of hints online that would only be known to investigators and someone with knowledge of the crime scene.?
And then follow it up by posting on two very well known internet crime forums including this one, and end up getting themselves in deeper ....
Guess we will find out the answers within the next few months...... Roll on 2019.......
Also find the "other complainants" angle recently mentioned by the Prosecution very interesting,,,particularly re "Propensity"....

I think SS is on the line, this side of JR.

 

[FeelingThroaty]

And apparently they're digging up an industrial property in Bayswater. Interested in looking underneath some sea containers on site and have bought in concrete cutting equipment.

Yes I have been there twice. Cops were going to question me but I backed off. Total f/up by the cops.

 

[FeelingThroaty]

Yes I have been there twice. Cops were going to question me but I backed off. Total f/up by the cops.

Oh yes I was doing a drop off thereabouts.

 

[Chris Hagen]

The thing that keeps knawing at me, is that the distance to JR body was 33,000 meters to Claremont. I wonder if that is a dimention that could be added or subtracted to another dimention to give a location for Sarah. Also, could the lines be hands of an analogue clock? telling a time or even a map location coordinate?

If anyone can confirm the 5600 hectare location that the caller to Don Speirs told him where her body was located.... I'll have a crack at finding her.

 

[one eyed spy]

I think it was the Nilgen Nature Reserve, others may disagree.

 

[Kurve]

Pretty quiet in here, must be the calm before the storm. I suspect there's one coming.

 

[craigos]

Pretty quiet in here, must be the calm before the storm. I suspect there's one coming.

How far out is this storm and if we draw a direct line from it to the Kebab station in Subiaco will it equal the date of the last full moon?

 

[browncow]

He is back in court today is he not?

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

He is back in court today is he not?

Alleged Claremont serial killer back in court

Accused Claremont serial killer Bradley Robert Edwards will return to court today, with more details in the case expected to emerge as lawyers prepare for WA’s trial of the century.

thewest.com.au

 

[browncow]

Claremont killer trial: Accused makes admissions as prosecutors push for evidence to be heard

A two-day hearing set down for this week will leave Justice Stephen Hall with more than 20 objections raised by Bradley Robert Edwards' lawyer to consider.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[Kurve]

BRE was about thirteen years old. Not a brilliant argument from Yovich against admissability, this hearing is scheduled to go for two days.



Key points:

• Bradley Edwards was seen near a woman's underwear drawer during a barbecue in 1982, the court heard
• Prosecutors say this confirms his interest in women's underwear which continued until 2016
• But defence lawyer Paul Yovich said the evidence was irrelevant

The allegation is part of legal argument about what evidence can be led against him at trial, being presented at a directions hearing.

His lawyers are objecting to some of the evidence that prosecutors want to present about him allegedly having "an entrenched fetish" for female underwear.

Edwards 'seen near underwear drawer'

The evidence includes an allegation that in 1982, when he was either 13 or 14, he was at a backyard barbecue and was seen near the underwear drawer of one of the female occupants of the property.

State prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo SC said the woman had given a statement in which she said she noticed that the straps of one of her bras, a black lacy one, was hanging out of the drawer the day after the barbecue.

"The state says this is a piece of evidence that confirms his interest in women's lingerie, which is connected to the alleged 1988 offences where the offender … leaves behind a long-flowing garment," Ms Barbagallo said.

That garment was a silk kimono, which the court heard was found to have Mr Edwards's DNA on it.

Ms Barbagallo said the evidence about the 1982 alleged incident is about showing that the accused had an interest in women's undergarments.

She said when Mr Edwards's home was searched at the time of his arrest in December 2016, police found a box containing female underwear with holes cut out where genitalia would be.

But Mr Edwards's lawyer Paul Yovich said the evidence was not relevant, arguing that there was no similarity between the incident and the alleged Huntingdale offences.

Accused Claremont serial killer 'had women's underwear fetish'

Bradley Robert Edwards had a fetish for women's underwear dating back to when he was 13 or 14 years old, the Supreme Court is told, and was seen near the underwear drawer of a woman living at a property where he had attended a barbecue.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kurve]

Claremont killer trial: Accused makes admissions as prosecutors push for evidence to be heard

A two-day hearing set down for this week will leave Justice Stephen Hall with more than 20 objections raised by Bradley Robert Edwards' lawyer to consider.

www.watoday.com.au

Wow ... ??????

Also on Monday, Mr Yovich told the court he had a number of signed admissions by the accused.

What these admissions are, and what aspects of the case they relate to, will not be revealed until the trial starts in November, with Justice Hall signalling any intention to publicise them before then may mean they are taken out of context.

 

[Eaglette01]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06...ont-serial-killings-underwear-drawer/11240360

Accused Claremont Serial killer BRE 'had women's underwear fetish since early teens' court told.

 

[Kurve]

The West is throwing some articles behind a paywall, if anybody can get past them please do post. The media thread here is also open.

Current - Claremont Murders - Media

This thread may be used to post all Claremont murders media related content. To include press and photographs. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. Pictured, late 1990s early 2000s. BRADLEY ROBERT EDWARDS - EIGHT...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Willow weeps]

I hate how they've turned to this "Exclusive" s**t. I bet another outlet has more details in it than the one The West wants you to pay to read. I refuse to subscribe to any paper

 

[GreyCrow]

BRE was about thirteen years old. Not a brilliant argument from Yovich against admissability, this hearing is scheduled to go for two days.



Key points:

• Bradley Edwards was seen near a woman's underwear drawer during a barbecue in 1982, the court heard
• Prosecutors say this confirms his interest in women's underwear which continued until 2016
• But defence lawyer Paul Yovich said the evidence was irrelevant

The allegation is part of legal argument about what evidence can be led against him at trial, being presented at a directions hearing.

His lawyers are objecting to some of the evidence that prosecutors want to present about him allegedly having "an entrenched fetish" for female underwear.

Edwards 'seen near underwear drawer'

The evidence includes an allegation that in 1982, when he was either 13 or 14, he was at a backyard barbecue and was seen near the underwear drawer of one of the female occupants of the property.

State prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo SC said the woman had given a statement in which she said she noticed that the straps of one of her bras, a black lacy one, was hanging out of the drawer the day after the barbecue.

"The state says this is a piece of evidence that confirms his interest in women's lingerie, which is connected to the alleged 1988 offences where the offender … leaves behind a long-flowing garment," Ms Barbagallo said.

That garment was a silk kimono, which the court heard was found to have Mr Edwards's DNA on it.

Ms Barbagallo said the evidence about the 1982 alleged incident is about showing that the accused had an interest in women's undergarments.

She said when Mr Edwards's home was searched at the time of his arrest in December 2016, police found a box containing female underwear with holes cut out where genitalia would be.

But Mr Edwards's lawyer Paul Yovich said the evidence was not relevant, arguing that there was no similarity between the incident and the alleged Huntingdale offences.

Accused Claremont serial killer 'had women's underwear fetish'

Bradley Robert Edwards had a fetish for women's underwear dating back to when he was 13 or 14 years old, the Supreme Court is told, and was seen near the underwear drawer of a woman living at a property where he had attended a barbecue.

www.abc.net.au

Really? That is pathetic by the prosecution. Jeezus that would mean i should be standing alongside ole Bradley as well. FFS its a long bow to draw.

 

[BFew]

I hate how they've turned to this "Exclusive" ****. I bet another outlet has more details in it than the one The West wants you to pay to read. I refuse to subscribe to any paper

Well. Well.
Look what I just found on Mumbrella.
The West Australian Newspapers paywall was timed to coincide with the CSK trial.
The trial has been delayed.
But the paywall has gone up regardless.

I wonder if there will deliberately be minimal info on the CSK trial on the free PerthNow, and they'll just use what they write on the CSK in PerthNow to try and drive traffic to the paywalled articles in the West Australian and hope that readers will subscribe.
Just like they have done today with the article

Claremont lawyers object to bra claim

Alleged Claremont serial killer Bradley Robert Edwards appeared in the Supreme Court this morning ahead of his nine-month trial.

www.perthnow.com.au

For more read this subscriber-only coverage at thewest.com.au: LAWYERS DISPUTE 'UNDERWEAR FETISH CLAIM

The Claremont Serial Killer can now take credit for fast-tracking the West Australian Newspapers paywall erection, and making Western Australia even more isolated from the rest of Australia and the world.

No wonder The West Australian Newspaper was feeling and reading and looking more and more like Sydney's Murdochian "Daily Telegraph".
Including the paywall.
With The West's paywall being even higher than the Daily Telegraph's so far, with their not providing social media twitter/facebook links to the full articles so far.

How West Australian Newspapers plans to play on the national stage

Anthony De Ceglie always said he would return to Western Australia if the opportunity to edit the daily paper presented itself.Now, after almost three years at The Daily Telegraph, that’s where he finds himself: in an office an almost five hour flight away from his former Holt St headquarters...

mumbrella.com.au

De Ceglie anticipates his major task – creating a paywall or thewest.com.au – will occur mid year, in line with a major murder case in Perth. But the timing of the paywall is interesting.

De Ceglie knows his biggest challenge will be educating the audience so they understand why content can no longer be free.
“Putting The West behind a paywall for the first time and getting that to work, and properly communicating to the audience why we are doing it and why it’s the future of journalism, why we need their support and why the money is worth it [is the biggest challenge],” he says.
“We have a really big, big murder case over here in the middle of the year – the Claremont serial killer trial.

“We know true crime is such a big driver of subscriptions and such a big driver of eyeballs and audiences that I really want to have us behind the paywall before then, so we can explain to our readers why that journalism is actually worth their money, why the quality of it is worth their money.

A number of years at the formerly News Corp-owned Sunday Times and perthnow.com.au, a stint in New York and later The Daily Telegraph eventually brought the Fremantle-born editor back home, to take on the role of senior editor across all of the West Australian Newspapers brands.

the task of creating a united seven-day newsroom and building a paywall for online platform, thewest.com.au.

One of De Ceglie’s biggest challenges for the year is balancing the content between the two: thewest.com.au, a website which will be put behind a paywall, and PerthNow, the “funky young cousin”.“Online news – you are either making money off subscriptions or you are making money off display advertising, and display advertising really only works on those young, funky websites, where people can target younger audiences,” he says. “There is the potential we can have a win, win, where perthnow.com.au fully embraces what we know advertisers want, and The West becomes a destination for subscription journalism.