Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

[The Donners]

No clue. It may be something to do with the way he was traded to Brisbane to ease salary cap issues?

I’m not sure if there’s anyone left from then other than Sheeds, Doc Reid and maybe Dodo?!? I think the board has had an entire turnover since then.

Oh well, long grudge to bear if this is true. $800k-$1m per year to coach or whatever the going rate is should be enough to change that attitude. Having said that, only going by what people say around here, he’s not interested in a senior coaching job?!?

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Oh I didn't mean it definitely will, I just would like it to.

There is a disconnect between where the club is and where certain people think it should be based on their own opinion of the players talent on our list.
I think we are building and you can see improvements in most of the current 22s games, we have many players having some of their best years individually. Two of our lines are working quite well, the forward line has been horrendous but has largely been gutted and robbed of time to build.
The VFL side also appear to be in good form over the last two years.
It takes time, I don't think we are taking shortcuts at the moment and you can see the gradual build taking shape.
I think reviews should be focused around the fitness department and aspects of the football department, I don't think we are doing everything the best we could.

But if people think our entire issue is the senior coach I personally am of the opinion these people shouldn't be making the call because it's largely based off of impatience.
But I understand they will, they will react, go early and we get a new regime in and everyone resets their clocks and we start the patience Meter again. The results could not change one iota and people wouldn't bat an eye.
The results will change most likely though, the forwardline gets some continuity which would have happened previously but for paitience, nice little mental refresh and the club sets off again on its merry way.
Coming off some of the most severe punishments and dire years in history plus a club that has done things wrong for 15 years, people think it could be fixed in 3 years?

Industry regularly revolves around a team/individual starting something people cracking the ****s because it takes too long and changing with the new someone coming in the beneficiary of the original groundwork.

Trust me I know he's probs gone and I know people on here and elsewhere will be dancing in the street about it.

C'mon man. Waiting for things is hard and losing is boring.

Can you just let us sack him to give us something to talk and think about that's different?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Don’t think much has changed. We won 12 games last year. If he improves on that then I think he’ll be fine.

But to win 13 we have to win 7 out of 9 now. That could happen - it happened last year.

If we win 12 he probably hangs on. 11 or less, don’t see him surviving.

We’ve got

Giants 3rd
Swans 14th
North 13th
Adelaide 5th (A)
Suns 15th (A)
Port 7th
Dogs 15th
Dockers 8th (A)
Collingwood 2nd

GWS, Adelaide, Collingwood and Freo will be tough games. Not to mention Port off a six-day break and back-to-back interstate trips. That won’t be a walk in the park.

It’s gonna be tough. We can’t afford a classic Essendon dropping of our bundle against Sydney, North, Bulldogs or GC. We just have to beat them.

Plus we have to pull off at least a couple of the others.

Tough to see it happening.

Early season losses to Sydney and St Kilda will probably bite us right in the arse. Much like last year, you just can’t wait until a month into the season to wake up. It costs you big time.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The other thing is we’ll have to get in a line that’s getting longer. Carlton and North are already searching for their new coach and I doubt St Kilda will be much longer.

 

[DapperJong]

The other thing is we’ll have to get in a line that’s getting longer. Carlton and North are already searching for their new coach and I doubt St Kilda will be much longer.

We joined the queue for Shiel with 5 minutes to go.

 

[Donakebab]

Don’t think much has changed. We won 12 games last year. If he improves on that then I think he’ll be fine.

But to win 13 we have to win 7 out of 9 now. That could happen - it happened last year.

If we win 12 he probably hangs on. 11 or less, don’t see him surviving.

We’ve got

Giants 3rd
Swans 14th
North 13th
Adelaide 5th (A)
Suns 15th (A)
Port 7th
Dogs 15th
Dockers 8th (A)
Collingwood 2nd

GWS, Adelaide, Collingwood and Freo will be tough games. Not to mention Port off a six-day break and back-to-back interstate trips. That won’t be a walk in the park.

It’s gonna be tough. We can’t afford a classic Essendon dropping of our bundle against Sydney, North, Bulldogs or GC. We just have to beat them.

Plus we have to pull off at least a couple of the others.

Tough to see it happening.

Early season losses to Sydney and St Kilda will probably bite us right in the arse. Much like last year, you just can’t wait until a month into the season to wake up. It costs you big time.

With our current forward line, I only see us winning those 5 games. This grab from the AFL website says it all.

They have beaten only two of the competition's current top-eight teams, and averaged just 57 points in losses to contenders Collingwood, Geelong, the Giants, Richmond and Eagles.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

“We’re 18 months into building this team.”

Cmon Woosha... that is just bullshit.

How can 2017... when we actually played finals... just be written off?

 

[JayJ20]

Oh I didn't mean it definitely will, I just would like it to.

There is a disconnect between where the club is and where certain people think it should be based on their own opinion of the players talent on our list.
I think we are building and you can see improvements in most of the current 22s games, we have many players having some of their best years individually. Two of our lines are working quite well, the forward line has been horrendous but has largely been gutted and robbed of time to build.
The VFL side also appear to be in good form over the last two years.
It takes time, I don't think we are taking shortcuts at the moment and you can see the gradual build taking shape.
I think reviews should be focused around the fitness department and aspects of the football department, I don't think we are doing everything the best we could.

But if people think our entire issue is the senior coach I personally am of the opinion these people shouldn't be making the call because it's largely based off of impatience.
But I understand they will, they will react, go early and we get a new regime in and everyone resets their clocks and we start the patience Meter again. The results could not change one iota and people wouldn't bat an eye.
The results will change most likely though, the forwardline gets some continuity which would have happened previously but for paitience, nice little mental refresh and the club sets off again on its merry way.
Coming off some of the most severe punishments and dire years in history plus a club that has done things wrong for 15 years, people think it could be fixed in 3 years?

Industry regularly revolves around a team/individual starting something people cracking the ****s because it takes too long and changing with the new someone coming in the beneficiary of the original groundwork.

Trust me I know he's probs gone and I know people on here and elsewhere will be dancing in the street about it.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that we've underachieved. It's also reasonable to put forward a KPI for Woosha to meet. That should be a finals win.

The most concerning part about Woosha isn't his lack of achievement as such. It's his mindset. He legitimately acts like he started last year. He keeps coming up with a million excuses, which our players obviously soak up. We've heard Heppell repeat it to the press. So did Shiel. Our mindset was "it'll take time" even before the season started. And they are shocked by how we started the season?

There is no reason why we should be 2 games behind Brisbane right now. The only reason they are 2 games in front is determination and preparation for the season. That's what a good coach does.

I would be willing to see another year if I wasn't so concerned about the message he repeats to the general public (which obviously shapes the view of our players as well). It's very strange to say the least. He went from "top 4 by 2018" to "we're working on something, but I can't give you a timeframe". That's why I don't believe he is the right person to take us forward unless he can show us where the improvement comes from. He has 10 weeks to do that.

 

[Lore]

With our current forward line, I only see us winning those 5 games. This grab from the AFL website says it all.

I really don't think that grab from the AFL website tells us anything.

In ladder order;

Geelong have beaten 3 top 8 teams.
Collingwood 2
GWS 1
WCE 3
Adelaide 3
Brisbane 3
Port 2
Fremantle 4

Richmond 2
Essendon 2
St Kilda 0
Hawthorn 3
NM 1
Sydney 1
Bulldogs 1
Melbourne 1
Gold Coast 1
Carlton 1

The funny thing about top 8 teams is that they're there because other teams haven't beaten them very often. Fremantle with 4, Geelong, Adelaide, Brisbane, Hawthorn with 3 are the unusual ones. GWS is amazingly high on the ladder despite only beating one top 8 team.

I can't be arsed looking up how much other teams lost to them by, but looking at Geelong, Collingwood and GWS's percentages, they tend to keep their opposition to a low score and win by a large margin.

 

[CBombers17]

Our preseason form was terrible and our start to the regular season was a disgrace.

These results have had us chasing all year and If they can be attributed to the coaches method of letting the playing group motivate and lead themselves then it failed then that's on the coach. Live by the sword die by the sword. Maybe groups like West Coasts best sides can motivate themselves. Ours clearly can't, or at least the team he has stuck by, so it hasn't worked. Simple.

As soon as finals are out of contention tough calls need to be made on the list and the coach. I can't see an argument to say we a better footballer team than we were last year and that's not just about wins and losses.

We can't risk another start to next year like this one - and the last one. It's just not good enough so we must move on asap.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Our preseason form was terrible and our start to the regular season was a disgrace.

These results have had us chasing all year and If they can be attributed to the coaches method of letting the playing group motivate and lead themselves then it failed then that's on the coach. Live by the sword die by the sword. Maybe groups like West Coasts best sides can motivate themselves. Ours clearly can't, or at least the team he has stuck by, so it hasn't worked. Simple.

As soon as finals are out of contention tough calls need to be made on the list and the coach. I can't see an argument to say we a better footballer team than we were last year and that's not just about wins and losses.

We can't risk another start to next year like this one - and the last one. It's just not good enough so we must move on asap.

The start to the season was disgraceful, and doubly so after it happened last year. They’re all worth 4 points, whether they’re in March or August.

 

[Lore]

Our preseason form was terrible and our start to the regular season was a disgrace.

These results have had us chasing all year and If they can be attributed to the coaches method of letting the playing group motivate and lead themselves then it failed then that's on the coach. Live by the sword die by the sword. Maybe groups like West Coasts best sides can motivate themselves. Ours clearly can't, or at least the team he has stuck by, so it hasn't worked. Simple.

As soon as finals are out of contention tough calls need to be made on the list and the coach. I can't see an argument to say we a better footballer team than we were last year and that's not just about wins and losses.

We can't risk another start to next year like this one - and the last one. It's just not good enough so we must move on asap.

I agree we can't risk another start like this one, but I'm not sure how we mitigate that risk without creating others. Surely there is a risk inherent with any new coach that we would then start yet another rebuild? Or develop yet another game plan? What are the risks associated with those things?

If our only issue is with the leadership and motivation of the players, perhaps we need to be looking at getting the coach we have to change, or whichever of Luke Ball and the other coaching assistants/wellbeing staff is in charge of that stuff. I don't want to end up with a Collective Minds type mob at Essendon, since I don't think they did Adelaide much good when they tried it, but there must be something we can do short of the baby and bathwater approach.


I remember someone around here saying a while ago that they thought we should be putting more into the psychological aspect of the game, mentally strong etc. Was it you Mercurial89?

Improving our mental and physical conditioning would go a long way towards resolving the issues we have, I think.

 

[CBombers17]

I agree we can't risk another start like this one, but I'm not sure how we mitigate that risk without creating others. Surely there is a risk inherent with any new coach that we would then start yet another rebuild? Or develop yet another game plan? What are the risks associated with those things?

If our only issue is with the leadership and motivation of the players, perhaps we need to be looking at getting the coach we have to change, or whichever of Luke Ball and the other coaching assistants/wellbeing staff is in charge of that stuff. I don't want to end up with a Collective Minds type mob at Essendon, since I don't think they did Adelaide much good when they tried it, but there must be something we can do short of the baby and bathwater approach.


I remember someone around here saying a while ago that they thought we should be putting more into the psychological aspect of the game, mentally strong etc. Was it you Mercurial89?

Improving our mental and physical conditioning would go a long way towards resolving the issues we have, I think.

I agree with your last paragraph, and In fairness to Woosha, any mental frailty the playing group has developed was almost certainly caused by the club and other factors preceeding his tenure.

However the preseason preparation, injury management, lost and found and lost again form lines, player generated motivation and stubborn selection policies (some will be fair criticism and some unfair of course) are his legacy now after this length of time. It's hard but that's the gig and very few leave coaching on their own terms for that reason.

To answer your initial question, yes there is is risk in change, but if there is a consensus at the club that this list is underperforming (some mentioned top 4 this year) then there is more risk in keeping him and this group potentially having another ordinary year in 2020 imo.

Personally I'd like to think the club could come up with something progressive with Woosha and keep him for his contract. I like his style and I think he has brought a lot of integrity and dignity back to the club when we really needed it, but I can't see how more of the same is tenable.

 

[Mercurial89]

I remember someone around here saying a while ago that they thought we should be putting more into the psychological aspect of the game, mentally strong etc. Was it you Mercurial89?

Improving our mental and physical conditioning would go a long way towards resolving the issues we have, I think.

It was, but people get a bit funny when you start delving into that aspect of things.

 

[BrunoV]

It sounds like he's trying to get sacked, quite frankly.

 

[DapperDon]

18 months into building the team, I hope he has a new spine ready to come in and play his gameplan in 15 months as he just wasted the last few years of the current one.

 

[TheGrizz]

Would wait till after this year to assess his body of work. Sacking a coach midseason may provide a short term boost but if we arent likely to make a meaningful imprint in september, there is no point moving on for the sake of 3 months, may as well give him the last 9 games and then assess.

He can spin it however he wants, but in 2017 we made finals, then proceeded to trade out of the 1st round of the draft for 3 years straight to bring in Shiel, Smith, Stringer and Saad. Mid table mediocrity wont save him alone he will have to show something can change next year
Which incidentally is why i think we are seeing the younger guys getting a go.

 

[Mr_McBoogerBalls]

I'd also throw in our injury concerns and lack of plan B this year as being equally unacceptable.

Personally, I like what John has done with the club; but I lose faith when we stick with a failing system and defend it.

If he can develop a more balanced and dynamic approach to our match day coaching and corrective issues, then I'd be happy to keep him. If the current trend continues however, I can't see it ending well for him.

 

[eth-dog]

The more I think about it the more I feel we need to clear out the footy department.

 

[JayJ20]

Even with injuries, how many of that can actually be attributed to our fitness and conditioning department?

How many people really thought playing Fantasia in Perth on a 6 day break was a good idea?

Even Stringer was probably lucky he didn’t suffer another soft tissue injury. If not for the soreness, he’d have played and probably re-injured his hamstring.

There’s an argument that Stewart and Daniher were mismanaged with their OP, although that’s not really something I can delve into.

How many of our problems are self-inflicted? We need a proper review of our practices.

 

[carloss]

From my point of view.

When teams shut down plan A, he has no plan B.

The development of younger players has been poor. Maybe they haven't had the opportunity because they club was more focused on trying to get in the finals?

Playing players who are clearly injured and struggle to impact the game hasn't worked either.

Backed senior players in when their form has been poor.

I wonder what he is thinking sometimes. He gave Colyer 8 games last year, perhaps hoping to get some value in a trade?
What did we get? A future fourth-round selection from Fremantle.

 

[Big Fresh]

Even with injuries, how many of that can actually be attributed to our fitness and conditioning department?

How many people really thought playing Fantasia in Perth on a 6 day break was a good idea?

Even Stringer was probably lucky he didn’t suffer another soft tissue injury. If not for the soreness, he’d have played and probably re-injured his hamstring.

There’s an argument that Stewart and Daniher were mismanaged with their OP, although that’s not really something I can delve into.

How many of our problems are self-inflicted? We need a proper review of our practices.

The worst one was when they said Laverde had hamstring tightness in the week leading up to an intraclub practice match and they still played him. Mindblowing stuff.

 

[Old Campaigner]

The more I think about it the more I feel we need to clear out the footy department.

I’ve been pretty keen on the idea for a while. For there to be such persistent underperformance I can’t help thinking there’s issues up the footy department chain of command, not just with the coaching and fitness staff.

 

[CBombers17]

I remember clearly thinking the Saints loss was the coach killer. To respond like that at home after the opening round was a horror show.
Teams with the kind of leaders Woosha's coaching style needs - find ways to win that game. That we couldn't just screamed to me that he has misread this playing group or failed to adapt himself or both.

 

[Lore]

Article on the AFL website about momentum, momentum swings and which clubs do well and badly on that.

The "team defence" related stats given for Essendon are;
6 five goal runs conceded this year, which is equal 6th most (worst) in the league. Teams that are worse than us in this area: Melbourne, North, Carlton, Gold Coast, St Kilda. We're tied with the Bulldogs and Richmond. Elite company...
21 three goal runs conceded this year, equal 5th most (worst) in the league. North, Carlton, Melbourne, Brisbane ahead of us. Tied with GC, Bulldogs, Sydney, Hawthorn.

The "team offence" stats they provided are (hampered obviously by our decimated forward line, but nonetheless);
2 five goal runs executed by us this year. 6th least, with Sydney, Melbourne, St Kilda, Gold Coast below us with 1 and Port with 0.
18 three-goal runs executed by us this year. That's 8th (dead centre of the pack). We're tied with North, Freo and Hawthorn.

Stats Files: The AFL's kings of momentum revealed

Who's had the most runs of goals this year? Plus, the stats that will have Dogs fans shaking their heads, and the three Demons who stood up against Freo

www.afl.com.au

Clearly an area of deficiency, to get and maintain forward momentum, capitalise on it and prevent the opponent from turning the tide against you. I think that comes back to consistency, ability to think on your feet and our on-field leadership. We can't expect the coach to single-handedly force the team to switch strategies mid-quarter, they need to be coached so that they can do it themselves, and fast. It's the kind of thing that James Kelly was exceptionally good at it most recently, but he retired in 2017. Perhaps he can be better utilised as a coach to teach these concepts.

It also highlights how important free kicks can be, when they help to turn the momentum of a game. It's not the number of them that matters, but where, when and with what frequency. Three in succession mid-quarter can quickly turn the momentum, while three at the end of a quarter is unlikely to have a significant impact. That'd be an interesting stat actually. A timeline with free kicks and scoring labeled on it. We all know it happens, but if you can prove it, it becomes damning.