Melbourne in the Media

[Topkent]

Yeah alright, let's pretend there's no difference between refusing to sign a contract, and not being offered one to sign.

Now you are making things up. Melbourne would have always had a contract on the table

 

[Toump Ass]

Now you are making things up. Melbourne would have always had a contract on the table.

So you know for a fact he had an extension on the table...?

As far as I can tell neither of us know exactly what happened. And who cares anyway- Hogan leaving isn't a big deal to me.

Also I'm sorry to hear about your namesake just then (... speaking of ex-dees and all)

 

[Topkent]

So you know for a fact he had an extension on the table...?

As far as I can tell neither of us know exactly what happened. And who cares anyway- Hogan leaving isn't a big deal to me.

Also I'm sorry to hear about your namesake just then (... speaking of ex-dees and all)

I don't know for a fact but clubs are always in discussion with player and manager. For a player of Hogans ability no doubt we would have tabled some sort of initial offer.


Devastation about poor old Kenty. Ripped his quad kicking the ground? That's mental. Hopefully he retires to the country one day and kicks bags of goals while smashing campaigners

 

[Grimesy87]

* me, more Hogan talk. Bloke was on 900k a year, and couldn't get a kick against any of the half decent teams last year. Further to that, the past 2 seasons (prior to this year) anyone who's watched us would know the matches we played without Hogan in that time, we were ultimately better, more functional and more dangerous.

I loved the bloke, he was one of my favourite players during the time here. We will never know what went on behind closed doors, but there was enough smoke to point to a fire with some of his off field behaviour. He just isn't as good as I thought he was going to be, and I'll never know if that was due to injuries or the shithouse luck life had dealt him over the previous few seasons.

All the best to him but can we stop having this pissing contest on half the threads about him? It's tiresome, he's gone, and like watts, it sounded like the list management team were culling out the guys not max focused on breaking our premiership drought, which will now extend another year.

 

[Demon bhoy]

**** me, more Hogan talk. Bloke was on 900k a year, and couldn't get a kick against any of the half decent teams last year. Further to that, the past 2 seasons (prior to this year) anyone who's watched us would know the matches we played without Hogan in that time, we were ultimately better, more functional and more dangerous.

I loved the bloke, he was one of my favourite players during the time here. We will never know what went on behind closed doors, but there was enough smoke to point to a fire with some of his off field behaviour. He just isn't as good as I thought he was going to be, and I'll never know if that was due to injuries or the ****house luck life had dealt him over the previous few seasons.

All the best to him but can we stop having this pissing contest on half the threads about him? It's tiresome, he's gone, and like watts, it sounded like the list management team were culling out the guys not max focused on breaking our premiership drought, which will now extend another year.

I agree this has been done to death and I’m certainly guilty, for me it’s beyond the Hogan trade now as you say he’s gone, it’s much more to do with the overall incompetence of last years trade period and how the powers that be have managed to waste a year with a list that was seen as one of the best by many so called experts.

As has been said above we are now in a position where club leaders are talking about the need to recruit goal kicking KPF 9 months after we traded the one we had for unders while under contract. I still find it hard to comprehend how they got it so obviously wrong

 

[Topkent]

I agree this has been done to death and I’m certainly guilty, for me it’s beyond the Hogan trade now as you say he’s gone, it’s much more to do with the overall incompetence of last years trade period and how the powers that be have managed to waste a year with a list that was seen as one of the best by many so called experts.

As has been said above we are now in a position where club leaders are talking about the need to recruit goal kicking KPF 9 months after we traded the one we had for unders while under contract. I still find it hard to comprehend how they got it so obviously wrong

Get what so obviously wrong. Omac has been so bad this year he has been dropped twice so we traded a full forward for a full back. Neither have had much of an impact at their clubs but just because you don't understand trade value doesn't mean the club ****ed up

 

[Demon bhoy]

C

Get what so obviously wrong. Omac has been so bad this year he has been dropped twice so we traded a full forward for a full back. Neither have had much of an impact at their clubs but just because you don't understand trade value doesn't mean the club ****** up

Clubs third last in a year we were supposed to challenge for the flag I call that a * up of epic proportions, they got fixated on a fat fullback that his own team didn’t want and thought pick 6 was just perfect, and now they are going to chase the type of player we traded for unders 9 months ago, what aren’t you seeing?

 

[Topkent]

C

Clubs third last in a year we were supposed to challenge for the flag I call that a **** up of epic proportions, they got fixated on a fat fullback that his own team didn’t want and thought pick 6 was just perfect, and now they are going to chase the type of player we traded for unders 9 months ago, what aren’t you seeing?

Our position has * all to do with Hogan. Moronic to think one player who has 13 goals would put us up the table.

Plus your accuse me of irrationality around Hogan but can't say a single sensible word about May. His own team did want him, you are making up more s**t now.

 

[Demon bhoy]

Our position has **** all to do with Hogan. Moronic to think one player who has 13 goals would put us up the table.

Plus your accuse me of irrationality around Hogan but can't say a single sensible word about May. His own team did want him, you are making up more **** now.

I’ve never accused you of irrationally around Hogan, I think yours and others opinions on the trade are quite rational I just don’t agree with the rationale, we have different opinions based on the same set of facts.

As for making s**t up, point out where and I’ll take it back, GC wanted May in the same way Melbourne wanted Hogan, and he has done nothing while at Melbourne to disprove he is anything other than ok.

I also agree that Hogan would have made * all difference to our ladder position and I’ve never said he would, what I’ll always say is you don’t trade away your best players in their early 20s for fat fullbacks.

 

[Topkent]

I’ve never accused you of irrationally around Hogan, I think yours and others opinions on the trade are quite rational I just don’t agree with the rationale, we have different opinions based on the same set of facts.

As for making **** up, point out where and I’ll take it back, GC wanted May in the same way Melbourne wanted Hogan, and he has done nothing while at Melbourne to disprove he is anything other than ok.

I also agree that Hogan would have made **** all difference to our ladder position and I’ve never said he would, what I’ll always say is you don’t trade away your best players in their early 20s for fat fullbacks.

First off both Melbourne and GC wanted them but both wanted to leave, 2nd you continually label a bloke who's AFL fit as fat like a child. He wasn't in perfect shape but he isn't fat and wasn't at GC either where he was their captain.

You said the club is 3rd last in a year we were ment to challenge for a flag as if Hogans trade was the result of that. Or are you basing this on hindsight? Bevause pretty clearly we will need a FB next year aswell with how s**t Omac is. No matter how rationale you think you are being it's pathetic to call a 5 year deal trade a loss before it's even started.

 

[Cannon82]

Clubs third last in a year we were supposed to challenge for the flag I call that a **** up of epic proportions, they got fixated on a fat fullback that his own team didn’t want and thought pick 6 was just perfect, and now they are going to chase the type of player we traded for unders 9 months ago, what aren’t you seeing?

Not sure how you can say the club's current position was a *up during last year's trade period, unless you think we were supposed to pick up Cripps, Lynch, Blicavs, Kelly, etc for a song? We've gone from 3rd or 4th to 3rd or 4th last with almost the same cattle we had last year - the reason we're doing so badly is because of the form and health of the playing list, not because we let Hogan go and brought May in.

 

[00Stinger]

How many other teams in the league have given up high picks for KPF defenders?

Carlton used pick 1 on Weitering but their list management is putrid!

Almost all of the best KPD'ers in the league have been picked up using late round picks (Andrews #61, McGovern RD). We have traded away 3 first round picks for 2 KPD'ers if you include Lever as a KPD. To me that is a major ******* concern.

Other than us I cannot think of another team that so willingly has given up first round picks for defenders. We have given up 3 first round picks in 2 years for them (that is right 3).

On the flip side KPF's command the most on the rarity that they are available on the open market and young ones are ridiculously over priced.

We traded a young KPF who at round 16-17 last year was potentially in the AA team (squad at least) for unders in order to overpay the market price for a KPD who is 3-4 years older.

May should be alright, but he is 27 so at his age he needed to come to the club and fit straight in. And Lever should be really good long term if his knees hold up. But the unarguable fact is we overpaid for both of them when history says you develop your own late picks for KPD'ers.

Now think about, take the names out of the equation, names are irrelevant in this case. What is relevant is the club took a massive gamble in trading away prized picks for players in a certain position that do not command that much on the open market

 

[Topkent]

How many other teams in the league have given up high picks for KPF defenders?

Carlton used pick 1 on Weitering but their list management is putrid!

Almost all of the best KPD'ers in the league have been picked up using late round picks (Andrews #61, McGovern RD). We have traded away 3 first round picks for 2 KPD'ers if you include Lever as a KPD. To me that is a major ******* concern.

Other than us I cannot think of another team that so willingly has given up first round picks for defenders. We have given up 3 first round picks in 2 years for them (that is right 3).

On the flip side KPF's command the most on the rarity that they are available on the open market and young ones are ridiculously over priced.

We traded a young KPF who at round 16-17 last year was potentially in the AA team (squad at least) for unders in order to overpay the market price for a KPD who is 3-4 years older.

May should be alright, but he is 27 so at his age he needed to come to the club and fit straight in. And Lever should be really good long term if his knees hold up. But the unarguable fact is we overpaid for both of them when history says you develop your own late picks for KPD'ers.

Now think about, take the names out of the equation, names are irrelevant in this case. What is relevant is the club took a massive gamble in trading away prized picks for players in a certain position that do not command that much on the open market

Yes because Melbourne has developed so many elite key defenders in the last 20 years... whoops not a single one

 

[Topkent]

Hurley, Rance, Lever, Weitering, Frawley, Tarrant were all first rounders aswell

 

[00Stinger]

Hurley, Rance, Lever, Weitering, Frawley, Tarrant were all first rounders aswell

So you can give me 1 or 2 examples of good KPD being drafted in the first round over the last 10 years. Both of which I already mentioned, well done!

Fact is that good list managed clubs do not trade first round draft picks for KPDers.

Yes because Melbourne has developed so many elite key defenders in the last 20 years... whoops not a single one

You name Frawley are a good KPD drafted in the first round, then say that we have not developed one in the last 20 years. Wasn't Frawley an AA defender at Melbourne?

 

[TheDarkDwarf]

**** me, more Hogan talk. Bloke was on 900k a year, and couldn't get a kick against any of the half decent teams last year. Further to that, the past 2 seasons (prior to this year) anyone who's watched us would know the matches we played without Hogan in that time, we were ultimately better, more functional and more dangerous.

I loved the bloke, he was one of my favourite players during the time here. We will never know what went on behind closed doors, but there was enough smoke to point to a fire with some of his off field behaviour. He just isn't as good as I thought he was going to be, and I'll never know if that was due to injuries or the ****house luck life had dealt him over the previous few seasons.

All the best to him but can we stop having this pissing contest on half the threads about him? It's tiresome, he's gone, and like watts, it sounded like the list management team were culling out the guys not max focused on breaking our premiership drought, which will now extend another year.

Great post, well said.

 

[Demon bhoy]

First off both Melbourne and GC wanted them but both wanted to leave, 2nd you continually label a bloke who's AFL fit as fat like a child. He wasn't in perfect shape but he isn't fat and wasn't at GC either where he was their captain.

You said the club is 3rd last in a year we were ment to challenge for a flag as if Hogans trade was the result of that. Or are you basing this on hindsight? Bevause pretty clearly we will need a FB next year aswell with how **** Omac is. No matter how rationale you think you are being it's pathetic to call a 5 year deal trade a loss before it's even started.

As I said GC wanted May like Melbourne wanted Hogan ie gone and guess what they both went. You need a fullback for every game not just next year, doesn’t mean you overpay for a fat one.

As I said before Hogan was traded I didn’t like it and the reasons why and I still don’t and nothing has happened to convince me otherwise, no hindsight here, but if May does become the player he has never been before I’m sure you’ll be here to tell me armed with all you little insults

 

[Demon bhoy]

Not sure how you can say the club's current position was a ****up during last year's trade period, unless you think we were supposed to pick up Cripps, Lynch, Blicavs, Kelly, etc for a song? We've gone from 3rd or 4th to 3rd or 4th last with almost the same cattle we had last year - the reason we're doing so badly is because of the form and health of the playing list, not because we let Hogan go and brought May in.

The trading period was one aspect of the worst off season in the AFL for many years and that started about 2 mins after they walked off the ground in Perth, incompetent coaching and administration, form, lack of fitness all factors

 

[Cannon82]

Hurley, Rance, Lever, Weitering, Frawley, Tarrant were all first rounders aswell

To be fair, Hurley and Tarrant are "failed" forwards.

Having a flick at the recent drafts, although I don't know much about the more recent ones...

2018: Can't see any KPDs drafted in the first round (23 picks...), although happy to be corrected, and some of the forwards picked here will probably end up as backs. We're the only club to pay big currency for a KPD (May).
2017: Naughton picked up at #9, although he's now playing as a key forward (go figure, 19 picks in first round). We're the only club to pay up big for a defender, again (Lever).
2016: #7 - Scrimshaw, although not sure if he counts as a KPD and its also a Gold Coast pick, so clearly wasted. #8 - Logue. 20 odd picks in first round. No one gives up a top 20 pick for a defender (Hamling and Hibberd cost a late 20s pick each).
2015: #1 - Weitering. #19 - Burton. Could argue Francis #6 and Doedee #17 if Lever counts as a KPD. Lachie Henderson moves from Carlton to Geelong for a 2016 first round pick. Jake Carlisle moves from Essendon to St Kilda for pick #5 and other swaps.
2014: #6 - Marchbank. #14 - Lever. #16 - Durdin. #21 - Goddard. Joel Patfull Brisbane to GWS for pick #21. Crazy Frost and steak picks for pick #23.

That's the last five years, definitely a bit of KPD expenditure going on, or "utility" procurement if we're being generous. Left out the likes of Darcy Moore as well because they were drafted as KPFs despite the fact they're now playing in the back line.

 

[Demon bhoy]

How many other teams in the league have given up high picks for KPF defenders?

Carlton used pick 1 on Weitering but their list management is putrid!

Almost all of the best KPD'ers in the league have been picked up using late round picks (Andrews #61, McGovern RD). We have traded away 3 first round picks for 2 KPD'ers if you include Lever as a KPD. To me that is a major ******* concern.

Other than us I cannot think of another team that so willingly has given up first round picks for defenders. We have given up 3 first round picks in 2 years for them (that is right 3).

On the flip side KPF's command the most on the rarity that they are available on the open market and young ones are ridiculously over priced.

We traded a young KPF who at round 16-17 last year was potentially in the AA team (squad at least) for unders in order to overpay the market price for a KPD who is 3-4 years older.

May should be alright, but he is 27 so at his age he needed to come to the club and fit straight in. And Lever should be really good long term if his knees hold up. But the unarguable fact is we overpaid for both of them when history says you develop your own late picks for KPD'ers.

Now think about, take the names out of the equation, names are irrelevant in this case. What is relevant is the club took a massive gamble in trading away prized picks for players in a certain position that do not command that much on the open market

Brain Lake is the prime example, picks in the 20s and 30s for an AA full back, 20 games in his first year, and a norm smith his on field credentials blow May away but we gave up pick 6

 

[Cannon82]

Brain Lake is the prime example, picks in the 20s and 30s for an AA full back, 20 games in his first year, and a norm smith his on field credentials blow May away but we gave up pick 6

Brian Lake was about to turn 31 and didn't have long left in the game. He only played three seasons for Hawthorn (2.5, actually) but they did win the Premiership every year he was there.

Gary Ablett went for a packet of chips and bus fare too, but its because he's got a limited shelf life at the top level.

 

[Demon bhoy]

Brian Lake was about to turn 31 and didn't have long left in the game. He only played three seasons for Hawthorn (2.5, actually) but they did win the Premiership every year he was there.

Gary Ablett went for a packet of chips and bus fare too, but its because he's got a limited shelf life at the top level.

So why did Melbourne overpay for May? Hes younger but not nearly as good and his first year is a right off.

 

[Cannon82]

So why did Melbourne overpay for May? Hes younger but not nearly as good and his first year is a right off.

Because May has 5 or 6 seasons left and clearly the club thought our backline needed reinforcing. We've overpaid for pretty much everyone we've brought in - why would May be any different?

Would also be interesting to see what Kolodashnij was valued at, too. Was he steak knives or was he a significant fraction of the value for that #6 pick?

 

[Demon bhoy]

Because May has 5 or 6 seasons left and clearly the club thought our backline needed reinforcing. We've overpaid for pretty much everyone we've brought in - why would May be any different?

Would also be interesting to see what Kolodashnij was valued at, too. Was he steak knives or was he a significant fraction of the value for that #6 pick?

I think the problem was the club thought we were one player away from a flag and got fixated on May as that player and as a result overpaid massively, KK was going to get delisted from memory if he wasn’t part of the trade.

The clubs been played by the crows Freo and GC the last 2 years

 

[SugarHealey]

I don't know for a fact but clubs are always in discussion with player and manager. For a player of Hogans ability no doubt we would have tabled some sort of initial offer.


Devastation about poor old Kenty. Ripped his quad kicking the ground? That's mental. Hopefully he retires to the country one day and kicks bags of goals while smashing campaigners

Your kidding. He did his quad kicking the turf.? How unlucky is that boy.