Austrian F1 2019

[hey shorty]

Very murky situation that. The fact Max took a wider line than normal which forces LeClerc off track, then they touch wheels on the exit, tells me it should have been a penalty.

Some very strange officiating going on.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

but hard racing!!!! You can race hard and overtake without colliding.. just ask ADR.

The irony is that the fans have been denied experiencing more drama and tension for at least another corner. But proably another lap or 2.

 

[drd23]

The fact Max took a wider line than normal which forces LeClerc off track, then they touch wheels on the exit, tells me it should have been a penalty.

Which is exactly what Nico Rosberg has said.

It'd probably lead to better races if they allow that sort of battling to occur between drivers, but given the ways the rules are written and have been enforced in the recent past, I don't understand how it wasn't a penalty

 

[imadodgyumpire]

That's it! I've found it! Thanks to discussing it elsewhere on the web, I found an easier way to make my point.

T2 in Austria is a sharp tight corner. In Indy/Nascar racing on ovals they deal with what is called 2 turns but is really just one long turn, like the parabolica at Monza.

In oval racing, because it's better for the set up of their car, you'll often seen a lead car take the high line going into a turn and they maintain it throughout. Anyone can go on the inside. If the can get the lead car, then good luck to them. If they do, they can't just ride up on the outside line on exit and crunch the other car into the wall. They have to maintain their inside line on exit til they're in the clear.

The same applies in F1. But perpetually bored people want to see "racing" (i.e. barging people out of the way, as long as it's not obviously blatant).

 

[Bradesmaen]

Which is exactly what Nico Rosberg has said.

It'd probably lead to better races if they allow that sort of battling to occur between drivers, but given the ways the rules are written and have been enforced in the recent past, I don't understand how it wasn't a penalty

A WC disagreeing with Damon Hill - a WC. What will Black_White do?!

 

[Black_White]

The stewards did exactly what was required. They took into account both drivers action and came up with the correct decision, racing incident.

British GP organisers have been seen sighing in huge relief as the possibility of re-laying the track had been put forward.
Requirements are for no contact between cars, no exceeding track limits
Here’s a pic of the proposed new track layout.

 

[Black_White]

The irony is that the fans have been denied experiencing more drama and tension for at least another corner. But proably another lap or 2.

How so?
Charles car was not damaged. And he had DRS at the next opportunity. In fact he had DRS for the rest of the race.
If he and the car were good enough......

 

[hey shorty]

How so?
Charles car was not damaged. And he had DRS at the next opportunity. In fact he had DRS for the rest of the race.
If he and the car were good enough......

It's not about whether he or the car were good enough, you're still not allowed to force a guy off the track.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

How so?
Charles car was not damaged. And he had DRS at the next opportunity. In fact he had DRS for the rest of the race.
If he and the car were good enough......

The car is good enough, and I presume Charles is. The biggest factor in this race is was the discrepancy in tyre performance between the cars. Leclerc's tyres were shot. You're not beating fresher tyres when your momentum has been ruined. Even with drs and party/orgy mode.

To fully answer your question. Had Verstappen not corralled Leclerc off track, you'd have seen a drag race to t3. Had Verstappen got him cleanly, everyone would've acknowledged his eventual win. That's another 1/4 lap of "racing you could've seen.

Had Leclerc held him off. The you would've then been watching in anticipation of Verstappen getting him on the second last lap, or Leclerc again holding off despite being a sitting duck.

Then if Leclerc held Verstappen off again. You would've been in anticipation of seeing Verstappen get Leclerc on the last lap. This is even more cut throat!

But if Leclerc held off Verstappen all the way. You would've witnessed one of the best defensive performances in recent memory (Which is still racing).

As a fan, you've played Deal or No Deal. The bank offered you $100,000, and you took it. But $500,000 was in your briefcase.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

The stewards did exactly what was required. They took into account both drivers action and came up with the correct decision, racing incident.

British GP organisers have been seen sighing in huge relief as the possibility of re-laying the track had been put forward.
Requirements are for no contact between cars, no exceeding track limits
Here’s a pic of the proposed new track layout.

Yeah, that's proper racing. The top drivers would excel with these rules.

As far as your graphic is concerned. There's alot in the merit of that. Ricciardo would've got 7th last week if he followed that.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I can't see what is wrong with wanting drivers to pass without making contact.. if you're good enough you can do it... It's a pretty obvious and simple one.

 

[Black_White]

Plenty still trying to defend the indefensible.
The same posters who were sure they were right and there would be a penalty.
No penalty, but unable to accept and move on.

 

[Black_White]

A WC disagreeing with Damon Hill - a WC. What will Black_White do?!

I would do, and say, exactly what WC Rosberg did and said.




Two WC’s agree with me.
Good stuff.

 

[hey shorty]

Like a little puppy looking for approval.

They set the precedent in Canada and now failed to back that up.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I would do, and say, exactly what WC Rosberg did and said.


View attachment 701754

Two WC’s agree with me.
Good stuff.

Yes, he says less penalties which is what most of us want, but he also said it was worthy of a penalty based on previous incidents. Continue looking for approval though.

 

[davis_756]

Plenty still trying to defend the indefensible.
The same posters who were sure they were right and there would be a penalty.
No penalty, but unable to accept and move on.

You can't give a driver a 5 second penalty for forcing a driver off track when they were 5m apart and let another driver push a car off track and get away with it.

MRP chook lotto type stuff and a dead set embarrassment for the FIA, either all get penalties or none do.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

I would do, and say, exactly what WC Rosberg did and said.


View attachment 701754

Two WC’s agree with me.
Good stuff.

Rosberg disagrees with himself. Watch from 3:00 to 4:40.

 

[drd23]

I would do, and say, exactly what WC Rosberg did and said.

He said that while he would like for it not to be a penalty, he believes that Max intentionally took a different line into the corner to ensure that he pushed LeClerc off the track, and that it should be a penalty

 

[happy_eagle]

You know who is probably glad there was a bit of controversy in the finish ?

Pierre Gasly..

Because without that finish, there would be (and still should be) some serious questions asked as to how he managed to finish 1 lap behind his own team mate on a 1 stop strategy in the same car.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Very murky situation that. The fact Max took a wider line than normal which forces LeClerc off track, then they touch wheels on the exit, tells me it should have been a penalty.

Some very strange officiating going on.

Michael Christian likes this.

Similarly feels like a lottery with the decisions...

 

[FR0GGY]

Its easy to say give him a penalty because they've set a precedent. Doesn't mean the first one (Vettel) was right though.

 

[hey shorty]

Its easy to say give him a penalty because they've set a precedent. Doesn't mean the first one (Vettel) was right though.

Very true, and it wasn't. If they didn't give Seb one I think you'd find most people wouldn't complain about this one.

 

[Black_White]

F1 RULES & REGULATIONS: What’s new for 2019? | Formula 1®

A new year means new rules. Those for 2019 may not be the wholescale changes due for 2021 – all aimed at making F1 racing even more competitive - but they are laying the all-important groundwork. Some will be obvious – the cars will look noticeably different – but others are subtler, though no...

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Unless it is clear to the stewards that a driver was wholly or predominantly to blame for an incident no penalty will be imposed.

There it is, the stewards looked at the actions of both drivers and decided that there was no clear infringer, as per the rules.
For those trying to compare the Seb/Max incident and use it as “precedent”, look at the rule and decide if both drivers had a hand in it. Clearly Hamilton did not.
I don’t agree with the penalty because I don’t think there was a clear running off the road.
But both incidents have been judged by this rule.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

The stewards have got it wrong, and I'm not sure they know what they should be looking at.

If they saw the telemetry, and it was clear that Verstappen braked noticeable later than normal, then he's wholly to blame for the incident. It's an oversight by the stewards.

You just have to ask Verstappen why he didn't clip the apex of the kerb? The convention is to stay wide, then cut in and clip the apex of the kerb, then go out wide again. There was no reason Verstappen couldn't that. So why didn't he?

 

[Black_White]

Won the apex.
Won the corner.
Has been so since racing was invented.
Stewards, by the letter of the law as quoted, took into account actions of both drivers.
When you’ve lost the apex, lost the corner, you have to back off to avoid contact.
Correct decision, play on.