Roast Enough is Enough

[st_trav_ofWA]

why are people obsessed with needing to know a ready made replacement based on public opinion. i doubt anyone on here could name 20 of the best performed CEO's in business within this country without googling for some financial results and company size to make their decision.

so why do we look at it and go, who do we replace him with? there's no one!

of course there's someone. we didn't sit there and go "well we have to keep netters or fraser because there's no one else".

the idea it's nisbet or cook is hilarious. they wouldn't even move to the pies. so it's not a case of club size or who we are. it's just they won't move.

there is always someone and that's the responsibility of the chairmain and board to find.

the fact remains you keep saying until the club spend the money better you are not putting in ... so what the hell is spending it better ? you are the equivilant of the old timer yelling "kick it long" at the footy... what if Finnis and co ARE the best in the business ?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

the point is fans dropped off. the $$$ dropped off. then they were forced to act. changes were made. yes money was tipped it, but was it more than before they all dropped off, no. it was a rally point. they didn't carry the same administration moving forward to saw them in that position they were trying to correct.

so it's the fans fault we left tassie? last i checked it was GT's recommendation to the board that got carried. another dumb decision.

china is a smart move. NZ was a smart move. leaving tassie was a dumb decision.

so you want the tipping point before we can make action on moving forward ? ill argue the tipping point was the day RL left thats when we knew we needed to look forward .. we had two false starts we had a CEO who while a great guy and a work horse for our club wasnt up to it so we got finnis things are on the upward trend and now because its taken longer than you hoped you want to scrap it all and start again ... yeah nah thanks
fans supported the recomendation of getting out of tassie ....

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Just out of interest how is it 1.3 million on Richo? I know people like putting mayo on their story to help but you know its one year not two. We were still playing under Richo last year whether he was extended or not. We were still only winning 4 games.

Relly apart from the richo extention every other club could have the same issues that you have raised.

Anyway you not giving your membership money next season should solve these issues. Not. If everyone felt the same as you then the club would fold. Yes fold. No members, no club. Luckily most don't stamp their feet and say im not joining until its all fixed. God knows how you tell if its all fixed if as you say it has nothing to do with not winning. Im pretty sure when you look in the mirror its all about not winning.

spot on ..

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

This is the first time since I've been a member (2012) that I've considered stopping. I don't want to, but I am sick of watching games that he's coaching. We're just s**t.

I understand that there is more wrong with the club than Richo, but keeping him there is just making everything worse. With all the recent changes in coaches going on and potentially still going on (for example John Worsfold and Longmire).... now is really the time for us to be out there trying to land a better coach.

It's clear we are not going to make finals this year so I don't know why they won't pull the trigger. It was too expensive to sack him last year, there is less we need to pay out now.

9 weeks wont make much differance so sack him now or sack him later its neither here or there ... the thing is we have to an extent given him a taget to hit to keep his job (finals) while we are still mathmatically a chance to make finals we cant really in good faith sack him as we are not really giving him the chance of hitting his target... its almost like an unfair dismissal if you wre told you had to make ten coffees in an hour and 20 mins in we fired you cause you only made 4 you could argue if you had the full hr you would have hit your target ...
we wont make finals and he wont be there next year the blood lust of a mid season sacking can wait until its physically imposible

 

[StCicatriz]

the fact remains you keep saying until the club spend the money better you are not putting in ... so what the hell is spending it better ? you are the equivilant of the old timer yelling "kick it long" at the footy... what if Finnis and co ARE the best in the business ?

its amazing how these conversations start off well and quickly end up personal and it always ******* occurs when anyone criticises the club. its like a pile on.

i've outlined how i think they should better spend their money for example the richardson contract. but now you're deliberately ignoring that.

so you think Finnis and Co are the best in the business but by some miracle we've just spent the last 6 years out of finals depsite how great they are?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Yeah I am. At the bye or before it, when everyone was starting to scream blue murder, Finnis or Basset were the person for the job to come out and put the fire out. Not the GM of football. Its salt in the wounds.

Richo reports direct to Leathers its appropriate he is the one to come out and talk about it

 

[plugger66]

its amazing how these conversations start off well and quickly end up personal and it always ******* occurs when anyone criticises the club. its like a pile on.

i've outlined how i think they should better spend their money for example the richardson contract. but now you're deliberately ignoring that.

so you think Finnis and Co are the best in the business but by some miracle we've just spent the last 6 years out of finals depsite how great they are?

But you said 1.3 million and now won’t even admit wrong. Come on de facto just admit that figure is completely wrong

And now it’s back to finals. Netters got us in the finals. You confuse yourself

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

its amazing how these conversations start off well and quickly end up personal and it always ******* occurs when anyone criticises the club. its like a pile on.

i've outlined how i think they should better spend their money for example the richardson contract. but now you're deliberately ignoring that.

so you think Finnis and Co are the best in the business but by some miracle we've just spent the last 6 years out of finals depsite how great they are?

hahahaha come on mate seriously you are spouting crap about stuff you think you know about the club and then when you get called out for it you think its getting personal ... come on grow up ... if that relly upset you the fine sorry StC...
again i didnt say Finnis and co are the best in the business .. im not interviewing for the CEO role at St Kilda so i dont know .. what i do know is that Finnis has done many things exceptionally well and for all our off field issues in winning games has been running the club strongly ... lets be honest we could have the "Steve Jobs" of AFL CEO's running the club and we would still have had 6 years out of finals ...
but good on you for finally admitting its because we havent made finals that you are pulling your membership ... its your right to be a fair weather supporter but dont try and dress it up as anything else

 

[StCicatriz]

im not going to give info on things told to me in confidence just take my word on the value of my reputaion as not a person to make stuff up that there has been at least 4 appoinments made in positions at the WCE that cost them money once they realised they were the wrong people for roles in the club ...

as for the facility let me just say if it was our club who blew that money in that way there would be all sorts of questions asked... im not talking about building setbacks or blow outs im talking a massive F**k up that cost in excess of $150k to fix ... im not saying any more on that matter but trust me when i say its not an acceptable loss ..

retention rate ... now you are talking out of your arse i highly doubt you have any clue how many former players of our club are involved in some capacity at our club.. if we are so poor in partnership with former players please list for me the former players who have out of football interest that is of benifit to our club we are not utilising ... surely if WCE are so far ahead of us in this aspect as you say you would have a full list at hand ready to go ..
as for footy department spend is based on the physical money outlayed to official employees by the club its self reported to the AFL, it doesnt factor in the staff working for WA football who are reporting back to both the WCE and the dockers .. for example i know a talent scout who is technically employed by WA footy through the swan districts football club that strangly enough spend 80% of his time reporting back directly to the WCE he is just one, in a state with two teams its very easy to get that kind of a leg up compared to a team in a state with 10 teams

here's some things that are costing us now:
1) inability to get appointments right. across three major lines: Football GM, List Manager and Senior Coach. we are onto our 3rd footy GM. our 3rd list boss. we also appointed then extended richo twice. - are you not saying we should be constantly searching for the best in the business ? isnt that what we have been doing in regards to the GM of footy? ... we blundered on extending richo but again name me a club who hasnt made an error on coaching
2) lack of protection to remove richardson without a substantial payout given that was raised as a deterrent to removing him. meaning you are carrying a bloke to implement and oversee a football dept program that is sub par. which affects the core of the business, the onfield results. - again its easy to say why didnt we have a clause to say we can sack him but thats not how contracts work, even if richo were dumb enough to sign a contract that allowed us to sack him without payout the coaches union would have gone us like no tomorrow
3) inability to get the development pathway right during the development phase of the list - again have you been to Moorabbin? Sandy Dragons will be based in the same building we will have direct pathways to the junior ranks in one of the strongest underage teams to produce players in the country.
4) draft blunders like McCartin at Pick 1 - please... name me a club who hasnt stuffed up a draft pick... real easy to sit back and take pot shot about our club drafting Paddy when the truth is we will never know what he could have become through no fault of our own
5) i disagree with this but its something you've raised before, the failed plan that was then binned. but from my perspective the inability to implement the actions required to meet the strategy outlined by the board, - so you slam us for sticking the plan with Richo but slam us for not sticking the plan with Pelchen ?!?!? come on seriously
6) poor onfield results that meant the we didn't realise the full capability of the new improved stadia deal, - we were rebuilding ... its not through choice we bottom out as hard as we did ...
7) financial losses accrued through 2013-2016 - areas we are addressing ...

honestly i could understand the walking away due to the terrible money managment during the Fraser era .. heck even in the Netters era but during this era with finnis when we are finally putting the wrongs right financially it doesnt quite fit

150k on a 60m project is considered to be a massive * up? right. sorry but i disagree with the word massive on that. i still don't know who the 4 appointments were. they can't be significant, given how stable they are! i'm yet to hear anything of the sort!

have a look who the development coaches are for WCE across the AFL club, WAFL Affiliate and next gen academy. i'm happy to be corrected here. also within their sales org structure.

how does a scout spend 80% of his time reporting back to WCE. i think you're over exaggerating now. he would be reporting back due to the NGA. remember the WAFC owns WCE. it's the job of the WAFC to ensure WCE are strong.

" you not saying we should be constantly searching for the best in the business ? isnt that what we have been doing in regards to the GM of footy?" yeah that's not what happened here. nice spin though. i guess when we remove richo it will because we are constantly searching for the best in the business too right?

"again its easy to say why didnt we have a clause to say we can sack him but thats not how contracts work" errr yeah that's exactly how contracts work. you put performance based clauses to reach the following year.

"even if richo were dumb enough to sign a contract that allowed us to sack him without payout the coaches union would have gone us like no tomorrow" lol would they. yeah i don't think so. i dont agree at all. if he can't hit his contract, how is it any different to what occurs this year?

"again have you been to Moorabbin? Sandy Dragons will be based in the same building we will have direct pathways to the junior ranks in one of the strongest underage teams to produce players in the country." pitty that they go into the draft... i was referring to the VFL alignment.

"so you slam us for sticking the plan with Richo but slam us for not sticking the plan with Pelchen ?!?!? come on seriously" lol what how's that relevant? you understand the difference between a plan and strategy. also the difference between a resource and the plan its self.

 

[StCicatriz]

hahahaha come on mate seriously you are spouting crap about stuff you think you know about the club and then when you get called out for it you think its getting personal ... come on grow up ... if that relly upset you the fine sorry StC...
again i didnt say Finnis and co are the best in the business .. im not interviewing for the CEO role at St Kilda so i dont know .. what i do know is that Finnis has done many things exceptionally well and for all our off field issues in winning games has been running the club strongly ... lets be honest we could have the "Steve Jobs" of AFL CEO's running the club and we would still have had 6 years out of finals ...
but good on you for finally admitting its because we havent made finals that you are pulling your membership ... its your right to be a fair weather supporter but dont try and dress it up as anything else

you basically said i was a kin to a nuthie shouting it kick it long. it's like me drawing an analogy to the essendope supporters with the bring back hird bullshit, or those defending players when they end up committing a crime.

yeah i'm sure that's it trav. i've tried to explain that's not it, but it's obvious you'll ignore my actual responses and make them out to be what ever you feel like them to be.

 

[StCicatriz]

But you said 1.3 million and now won’t even admit wrong. Come on de facto just admit that figure is completely wrong

And now it’s back to finals. Netters got us in the finals. You confuse yourself

i replied to that. it's two years @ 650k. how many years has he been under his new contract? oh yeah that's right, 2 years!

 

[plugger66]

you basically said i was a kin to a nuthie shouting it kick it long. it's like me drawing an analogy to the essendope supporters with the bring back hird bulls**t, or those defending players when they end up committing a crime.

yeah i'm sure that's it trav. i've tried to explain that's not it, but it's obvious you'll ignore my actual responses and make them out to be what ever you feel like them to be.

What about the 1.3 million. You do go awfully quiet when you are wrong. It’s a website. I don’t know you. Surely you can say yes I got that wrong

 

[StCicatriz]

What about the 1.3 million. You do go awfully quiet when you are wrong. It’s a website. I don’t know you. Surely you can say yes I got that wrong

my god. i've replied to you 3 times mate. can't you read the responses?

 

[plugger66]

i replied to that. it's two years @ 650k. how many years has he been under his new contract? oh yeah that's right, 2 years!

One year. Second year is next year. First contract finished last year and got a 2 year extension which finishes next year but luckily has a rider in it. He just happened to get the extension when he had a year to go. If you remember that was the issue. We didn’t need to do it. Now you get it. Yes?

 

[plugger66]

my god. i've replied to you 3 times mate. can't you read the responses?

But they are 100% wrong

 

[triggering bro]

This whole debate is painful to read. I was at first intrigued, then it was like a car crash & I couldn’t look away, now I’m done. Congrats, you guys broke the internet.

 

[Diehard Saint]

It drops down a lot after 4 weeks? Fair enough, we're probably better off waiting four weeks then. But in four weeks a lot can happen, and we may have missed the boat based on who is + could be on the market.

They would have been sounding out potential coaches for months now.
And if they haven’t been, they all need to be sacked.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm glad we didn't sack Richo 2 years ago, you lot would be chewing at the new one's heels by now.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

150k on a 60m project is considered to be a massive **** up? right. sorry but i disagree with the word massive on that. i still don't know who the 4 appointments were. they can't be significant, given how stable they are! i'm yet to hear anything of the sort!

have a look who the development coaches are for WCE across the AFL club, WAFL Affiliate and next gen academy. i'm happy to be corrected here. also within their sales org structure.

how does a scout spend 80% of his time reporting back to WCE. i think you're over exaggerating now. he would be reporting back due to the NGA. remember the WAFC owns WCE. it's the job of the WAFC to ensure WCE are strong.

" you not saying we should be constantly searching for the best in the business ? isnt that what we have been doing in regards to the GM of footy?" yeah that's not what happened here. nice spin though. i guess when we remove richo it will because we are constantly searching for the best in the business too right?

"again its easy to say why didnt we have a clause to say we can sack him but thats not how contracts work" errr yeah that's exactly how contracts work. you put performance based clauses to reach the following year.

"even if richo were dumb enough to sign a contract that allowed us to sack him without payout the coaches union would have gone us like no tomorrow" lol would they. yeah i don't think so. i dont agree at all. if he can't hit his contract, how is it any different to what occurs this year?

"again have you been to Moorabbin? Sandy Dragons will be based in the same building we will have direct pathways to the junior ranks in one of the strongest underage teams to produce players in the country." pitty that they go into the draft... i was referring to the VFL alignment.

"so you slam us for sticking the plan with Richo but slam us for not sticking the plan with Pelchen ?!?!? come on seriously" lol what how's that relevant? you understand the difference between a plan and strategy. also the difference between a resource and the plan its self.

im not going into details on what happened so fine ok $150 k is nothing ...


80% of his role is reporting on player for the WCE but his job is for the WAFC so he doesnt get paid by the WCE... ok so lets put 2 and 2 together and think about that spend the WCE report to the AFL in regards to their footy department ..

of couse removing richo is searching for the best in the business ... you wouldnt remove him otherwise ... Finnis answers to the board on his KPI's if he doesnt hit them he get replaced its pretty simple.. to date from everything i have heard from board level he is safe .. the board dont put the fact the team is s**t on the CEO when the CEO is charged with running the business

yes there are clauses hence we are waiting this year out .... stupidity is sacking a bloke early when you know its not going to make a differance otherthan costing a bucket load of money ... may as well let the year play out and let the clauses do their job ...

again with the VFL .. short of the Zebs wearing red black and white (that they have already done) short of changing the name to the Saints the Zebs are our reserves team .. we control EVERY thing what else did you want from the VFL alignment ? we get to play who we want where we want when we want in the team , we control the player work load , we run selection, we have our coach doing rotations so what else do you want ? seriously what else?

look if we are so woeful and our club is such a rabble with all your gushing over the WCE and conections to that club why bother even worrying about our club ? just join the WCE go be happy ... ill never turn down a potential saints fan but you are becoming less and less a saints person and more and more an eagles person ... you are a good bloke i do like you but dont act surprised when you diss my club that you are not going to get agreement from me .. not when i know the hard work that many many people put into my club both payed and unpaid .. we are far from perfect... heck when we win our next flag we still wont be perfect ...
you choose to not pay your membership any more fine thats your choice but dont expect a welcome reception when you bag my club when you turn your back on it ... you cancelled 6 memberships ok thats fine my group donated $1000.00 two weeks ago to the club so we got you covered ... ill raise another $1000.00 for my club this year just to make sure of it ...
i personally dont need any further explaination from you on why you are pulling out you have made your decision im not going to try and change that ..

 

[plugger66]

my god. i've replied to you 3 times mate. can't you read the responses?

Still no answer. It’s easy. Wrrrroooonnnnggg

 

[sunny3193]

im not going to give info on things told to me in confidence just take my word on the value of my reputaion as not a person to make stuff up that there has been at least 4 appoinments made in positions at the WCE that cost them money once they realised they were the wrong people for roles in the club ...

as for the facility let me just say if it was our club who blew that money in that way there would be all sorts of questions asked... im not talking about building setbacks or blow outs im talking a massive F**k up that cost in excess of $150k to fix ... im not saying any more on that matter but trust me when i say its not an acceptable loss ..

retention rate ... now you are talking out of your arse i highly doubt you have any clue how many former players of our club are involved in some capacity at our club.. if we are so poor in partnership with former players please list for me the former players who have out of football interest that is of benifit to our club we are not utilising ... surely if WCE are so far ahead of us in this aspect as you say you would have a full list at hand ready to go ..
as for footy department spend is based on the physical money outlayed to official employees by the club its self reported to the AFL, it doesnt factor in the staff working for WA football who are reporting back to both the WCE and the dockers .. for example i know a talent scout who is technically employed by WA footy through the swan districts football club that strangly enough spend 80% of his time reporting back directly to the WCE he is just one, in a state with two teams its very easy to get that kind of a leg up compared to a team in a state with 10 teams

here's some things that are costing us now:
1) inability to get appointments right. across three major lines: Football GM, List Manager and Senior Coach. we are onto our 3rd footy GM. our 3rd list boss. we also appointed then extended richo twice. - are you not saying we should be constantly searching for the best in the business ? isnt that what we have been doing in regards to the GM of footy? ... we blundered on extending richo but again name me a club who hasnt made an error on coaching
2) lack of protection to remove richardson without a substantial payout given that was raised as a deterrent to removing him. meaning you are carrying a bloke to implement and oversee a football dept program that is sub par. which affects the core of the business, the onfield results. - again its easy to say why didnt we have a clause to say we can sack him but thats not how contracts work, even if richo were dumb enough to sign a contract that allowed us to sack him without payout the coaches union would have gone us like no tomorrow
3) inability to get the development pathway right during the development phase of the list - again have you been to Moorabbin? Sandy Dragons will be based in the same building we will have direct pathways to the junior ranks in one of the strongest underage teams to produce players in the country.
4) draft blunders like McCartin at Pick 1 - please... name me a club who hasnt stuffed up a draft pick... real easy to sit back and take pot shot about our club drafting Paddy when the truth is we will never know what he could have become through no fault of our own
5) i disagree with this but its something you've raised before, the failed plan that was then binned. but from my perspective the inability to implement the actions required to meet the strategy outlined by the board, - so you slam us for sticking the plan with Richo but slam us for not sticking the plan with Pelchen ?!?!? come on seriously
6) poor onfield results that meant the we didn't realise the full capability of the new improved stadia deal, - we were rebuilding ... its not through choice we bottom out as hard as we did ...
7) financial losses accrued through 2013-2016 - areas we are addressing ...

honestly i could understand the walking away due to the terrible money managment during the Fraser era .. heck even in the Netters era but during this era with finnis when we are finally putting the wrongs right financially it doesnt quite fit

Brilliant post, I’m glad someone has finally expressed these thoughts.
But you missed another point: we’ve also tied up the second tier competition in our catchment as well (the Southern Football League).
Everything about Moorabbin is about vertical integration, feeder comps and building barriers to entry in our core catchment.
And that’s not even considering the commercial opportunities.
The strategic importance cannot be overstated.
Moorabbin has set this club up for the next fifty years.

You’re a legend St T.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

This whole debate is painful to read. I was at first intrigued, then it was like a car crash & I couldn’t look away, now I’m done. Congrats, you guys broke the internet.

 

[George]

dont act surprised when you diss my club that you are not going to get agreement from me .. not when i know the hard work that many many people put into my club both payed and unpaid .. we are far from perfect... heck when we win our next flag we still wont be perfect ...you choose to not pay your membership any more fine thats your choice but dont expect a welcome reception when you bag my club when you turn your back on it

Could not agree more with this.

 

[StCicatriz]

im not going into details on what happened so fine ok $150 k is nothing ...


80% of his role is reporting on player for the WCE but his job is for the WAFC so he doesnt get paid by the WCE... ok so lets put 2 and 2 together and think about that spend the WCE report to the AFL in regards to their footy department ..

of couse removing richo is searching for the best in the business ... you wouldnt remove him otherwise ... Finnis answers to the board on his KPI's if he doesnt hit them he get replaced its pretty simple.. to date from everything i have heard from board level he is safe .. the board dont put the fact the team is s**t on the CEO when the CEO is charged with running the business

yes there are clauses hence we are waiting this year out .... stupidity is sacking a bloke early when you know its not going to make a differance otherthan costing a bucket load of money ... may as well let the year play out and let the clauses do their job ...

again with the VFL .. short of the Zebs wearing red black and white (that they have already done) short of changing the name to the Saints the Zebs are our reserves team .. we control EVERY thing what else did you want from the VFL alignment ? we get to play who we want where we want when we want in the team , we control the player work load , we run selection, we have our coach doing rotations so what else do you want ? seriously what else?

look if we are so woeful and our club is such a rabble with all your gushing over the WCE and conections to that club why bother even worrying about our club ? just join the WCE go be happy ... ill never turn down a potential saints fan but you are becoming less and less a saints person and more and more an eagles person ... you are a good bloke i do like you but dont act surprised when you diss my club that you are not going to get agreement from me .. not when i know the hard work that many many people put into my club both payed and unpaid .. we are far from perfect... heck when we win our next flag we still wont be perfect ...
you choose to not pay your membership any more fine thats your choice but dont expect a welcome reception when you bag my club when you turn your back on it ... you cancelled 6 memberships ok thats fine my group donated $1000.00 two weeks ago to the club so we got you covered ... ill raise another $1000.00 for my club this year just to make sure of it ...
i personally dont need any further explaination from you on why you are pulling out you have made your decision im not going to try and change that ..

Ok mate

 

[plugger66]

Ok mate

No 1.3 million apology