PintofPale
Team Captain
- Aug 15, 2007
- 369
- 502
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
All the best Harley.
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Yep. Makes no sense whatsoever. Strength and conditioning plays a minimal role in injury prevention in terms of the practices of clubs compared to the clubs that have less injury. Yeah you need strength and conditioning programs, but even the huge soccer and nba clubs with a ton of money to spend get injuries.ITs utter bollocks that some are better than others. THe best practice in sport injury recovery is as well known as any other medical science.Yes, let's randomly sack people because they aren't magicians in chronically injured players back out on the park.
THat sounds like the risk was identified.Regarding the S&C team.
Ken Withers is on record (2017 iirc) as saying that when they did their due diligence they said "this (the calf) was something that could blow up in our faces".
So the risk was properly identified and no doubt clearly communicated.
Thus I'm slowly coming around to the argument that it was the failure to (a) have in place an exit strategy for Bennell and (b) paying too much, that led to Bell staging a coup d'etat to force Bond and Lloyd out.
The whole situation was messed up from the start, we wanted to play Harley midfield. I know I will cop it for sayingYep. Makes no sense whatsoever. Strength and conditioning plays a minimal role in injury prevention in terms of the practices of clubs compared to the clubs that have less injury. Yeah you need strength and conditioning programs, but even the huge soccer and nba clubs with a ton of money to spend get injuries.ITs utter bollocks that some are better than others. THe best practice in sport injury recovery is as well known as any other medical science.
The whole situation was messed up from the start, we wanted to play Harley midfield. I know I will cop it for saying
this but Hawks went the right path with Cyril, O Mera, Scully, etc.
That and our coach believes in greater effort, over a skilled style that has proven to be successful to reach finals
in reasonable health.
What?Yep. Makes no sense whatsoever. Strength and conditioning plays a minimal role in injury prevention in terms of the practices of clubs compared to the clubs that have less injury. Yeah you need strength and conditioning programs, but even the huge soccer and nba clubs with a ton of money to spend get injuries.ITs utter bollocks that some are better than others. THe best practice in sport injury recovery is as well known as any other medical science.
Unless we change the game plan slightly, and the S&C I don't see a different result. Only way to change theWhat?
Their always be people who are better in profession than others.
Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.
Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.
Why good luck, game style, travel or management?
The old saying, if you keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.
Maybe, axing the conditioning team might not make a difference but for me let’s try something different.
THere is no evidence we are not at the best practI'm not a sack the s&c poster, but ensuring we are in the best practice level of performance is perhaps the biggest impact Bell can have at the club.
Sorry but thats utter nonsense. That's why how we havent changed our conditioning team despite a heap of new players and professionals coming to the club in recent years. How injuries are managed across the board is actually very standard across all of the afl. Im pretty sure someone like Conca whos had a ton of injuries at Richmond would also agree with what Im saying. Finding a cure for cancer. Thats new medical ground. How sports injuries are managed and the procedure for bringing players back is VERY much standard procedure with the skill of the surgeon who does the operation way more important than the strength and management of an injury which Im certain youd find. Ironically, its only every now and then that a new procedure becomes available in sports injuriues. LIke the blood injections of the calves, which we tried with Bennell.What?
Their always be people who are better in profession than others.
Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.
Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.
Why good luck, game style, travel or management?
The old saying, if you keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.
Maybe, axing the conditioning team might not make a difference but for me let’s try something different.
What are you talking about?THere is no evidence we are not at the best pract
Sorry but thats utter nonsense. That's why how we havent changed our conditioning team despite a heap of new players and professionals coming to the club in recent years. How injuries are managed across the board is actually very standard across all of the afl. Im pretty sure someone like Conca whos had a ton of injuries at Richmond would also agree with what Im saying. Finding a cure for cancer. Thats new medical ground. How sports injuries are managed and the procedure for bringing players back is VERY much standard procedure with the skill of the surgeon who does the operation way more important than the strength and management of an injury which Im certain youd find. Ironically, its only every now and then that a new procedure becomes available in sports injuriues. LIke the blood injections of the calves, which we tried with Bennell.
Good read. Shame Harley has not been able to play on a regular basis.Hi everyone.
As a Physio I've been a keen observer of Harley since his GC days. My passion is trying to better understand the cause of many of the musculoskeletal issues that plague us and Harley has been right at the front of my mind over the last few years.
If anyone's interested, I've put together an article explaining Achilles issues that seem to fit in specifically with what I see with Harley and his calf issues (from the outside of course).
http://yourwellnessnerd.com/achilles-tendonitis/
The article itself is not Harley-specific but hopefully it may help shed some light on some of the things that may be in play and perhaps haven't been addressed yet. Clinically I see a lot of issues that may not necessarily be common practice yet and these are potentially some of them.
In short, I think Harley has a few notable mechanical concerns that may still be hanging around and setting those legs up to struggle. His ankles look pretty stiff, his hips look tight and the way he uses his back particularly when sitting may potentially be the things keeping those calves on the edge of injury.
I've written separate pieces on Cyril's hammies and Nic Nat's ACL's using some images and footage to highlight what Im finding and happy to go trawling on behalf of Harley as well if anyone is interested.
I'm sure many here have already put a line through him, but hope this is appropriate to post either way.
Best of luck (after next week) as finals approach
What?
Their always be people who are better in profession than others.
Sure injuries are mostly luck but their is a percentage that can be prevented with staff who know what they are doing.
Hawthorn seem to do better than us in terms of injuries.
They were desperate for pick 1, and who would blame them? Hodge, Ball, Judd. They rate Elvis, but those 3 guysIf you remember back to the McPharlin days, when he came to us from the Hawks he was basically thrown in as steak knives because they thought he was cooked from injuries. We got him up and running pretty well.
We've done ok with Hogan who was carrying a potentially career ending injury.
Yeah I think you ll find tho Elvis wanted to come home,helped of course by a pretty good contract I’d say,They were desperate for pick 1, and who would blame them? Hodge, Ball, Judd. They rate Elvis, but those 3 guys
were once in a generation hyped.
Thanks, very interesting. Do you think the many times Harley suffered from so called "Calf awareness" stopping him playing but no calf injury showed up on scans, that it could have been tendonitis?Hi everyone.
As a Physio I've been a keen observer of Harley since his GC days. My passion is trying to better understand the cause of many of the musculoskeletal issues that plague us and Harley has been right at the front of my mind over the last few years.
If anyone's interested, I've put together an article explaining Achilles issues that seem to fit in specifically with what I see with Harley and his calf issues (from the outside of course).
http://yourwellnessnerd.com/achilles-tendonitis/
The article itself is not Harley-specific but hopefully it may help shed some light on some of the things that may be in play and perhaps haven't been addressed yet. Clinically I see a lot of issues that may not necessarily be common practice yet and these are potentially some of them.
In short, I think Harley has a few notable mechanical concerns that may still be hanging around and setting those legs up to struggle. His ankles look pretty stiff, his hips look tight and the way he uses his back particularly when sitting may potentially be the things keeping those calves on the edge of injury.
I've written separate pieces on Cyril's hammies and Nic Nat's ACL's using some images and footage to highlight what Im finding and happy to go trawling on behalf of Harley as well if anyone is interested.
I'm sure many here have already put a line through him, but hope this is appropriate to post either way.
Best of luck (after next week) as finals approach
Cheers mate, the key with most lower leg issues is that faulty mechanisms that set each of them up to fail are all relatively similar. Whether it's an Achilles injury, a calf, navicular bone stress, shin splints, plantar fasciits, turf toe etc they're all very similar but the consequences just express themselves differently based on the person.Good read. Shame Harley has not been able to play on a regular basis.
My concern is with stress related bone fractures particularly in the bigger players - Taberner, Pearce, Hogan etc
Interesting to hear your comments.
Thanks, very interesting. Do you think the many times Harley suffered from so called "Calf awareness" stopping him playing but no calf injury showed up on scans, that it could have been tendonitis?
Using bands and PND would benefit everyone I'd say and don't know if we use them at all.
Also, many of the players wold be using sports or running shoes when walking around, so are you saying these type of shoes aren't good for these type of injuries?
We persisted in wanting Harly to play as a midfielder when a few here thought he would be best managed like Cyril, playin in a forward pocket, what are your thoughts on where he was being asked to lay in relation to this sort of calf injury?
Appreciate any other comments you have with regard to Harley.
Excellent response, thanks again.Thanks for the kind words.
Anything "awareness" related is often just something not feeling right. Tendonitis can be shown on a scan and it could have been that but it's always hard to make proper sense from what gets said publically through the media.
For Harley any awareness could just mean an increased sense of tightness which happens when the body begins to feel the need to protect something it feels may be on the verge of dysfunction. Nothing may be injured but if the situation which initiated the tightening was more forceful, challenging or threatening it could have resulted in tissue damage.
Bands and PNF for some reason just arent as common place as they should be. They're really the only way to approach meaningful mechanical change beyond foam rollers etc. If interested I put some work into explaining that here:
What is the Best Way to Stretch in 2021? (Hint: Power Band) | Your Wellness Nerd
The power band has revolutionized stretching. Here's what you need to know to take your stretching and mobility to the next level.yourwellnessnerd.com
In regards to footwear, I think we often lose perspective in the industry which makes it hard for everyone else.
If you trawl through most players' instagrams many still wear thongs - I know Hogan does from what I can see. These are basically junk food for feet. The issue with shoes most people/players wear day to day is that they all often have a heel at the back. Some Nike's only have a small one, but it's a heel nonetheless. This is important because any heel at all is the exact amount of ankle range you dont get access to. And if you're in the same heeled shoes for long enough you'll start to lose it. Its one of the key reasons so many athletes still have the same issues.
Again if interested I cover this in detail here:
Why Modern Shoes Stink
What makes a good shoe? Here's why modern shoe technology has our best interests at heart but ultimately sets us up for future dysfunction.yourwellnessnerd.com
In terms of Harley's position, it should genuinely be a non issue. If they only played him forward instead of mid to protect him then they're probably not getting to the root cause of his issue - more so trying manage or protect him. The way the Hawks managed Cyril with his Hammies was interesting. They changed his running technique, changed his role as you said and hammered his calf, hammy, glutes etc. But again this only buffers the underlying mechanical issues, not necessarily cure them.
Again if interested haha: http://yourwellnessnerd.com/hamstring-injury-feat-cyril-rioli/
I'll try and drum up some pics to highlight what I'm seeing with Harley
Thanks for the kind words.
Anything "awareness" related is often just something not feeling right. Tendonitis can be shown on a scan and it could have been that but it's always hard to make proper sense from what gets said publically through the media.
For Harley any awareness could just mean an increased sense of tightness which happens when the body begins to feel the need to protect something it feels may be on the verge of dysfunction. Nothing may be injured but if the situation which initiated the tightening was more forceful, challenging or threatening it could have resulted in tissue damage.
Bands and PNF for some reason just arent as common place as they should be. They're really the only way to approach meaningful mechanical change beyond foam rollers etc. If interested I put some work into explaining that here:
What is the Best Way to Stretch in 2021? (Hint: Power Band) | Your Wellness Nerd
The power band has revolutionized stretching. Here's what you need to know to take your stretching and mobility to the next level.yourwellnessnerd.com
In regards to footwear, I think we often lose perspective in the industry which makes it hard for everyone else.
If you trawl through most players' instagrams many still wear thongs - I know Hogan does from what I can see. These are basically junk food for feet. The issue with shoes most people/players wear day to day is that they all often have a heel at the back. Some Nike's only have a small one, but it's a heel nonetheless. This is important because any heel at all is the exact amount of ankle range you dont get access to. And if you're in the same heeled shoes for long enough you'll start to lose it. Its one of the key reasons so many athletes still have the same issues.
Again if interested I cover this in detail here:
Why Modern Shoes Stink
What makes a good shoe? Here's why modern shoe technology has our best interests at heart but ultimately sets us up for future dysfunction.yourwellnessnerd.com
In terms of Harley's position, it should genuinely be a non issue. If they only played him forward instead of mid to protect him then they're probably not getting to the root cause of his issue - more so trying manage or protect him. The way the Hawks managed Cyril with his Hammies was interesting. They changed his running technique, changed his role as you said and hammered his calf, hammy, glutes etc. But again this only buffers the underlying mechanical issues, not necessarily cure them.
Again if interested haha: http://yourwellnessnerd.com/hamstring-injury-feat-cyril-rioli/
I'll try and drum up some pics to highlight what I'm seeing with Harley
Not sure where the Rookie list rumours are from, Ross and Bell have pretty much stamped his papers already going by their last interviews.
Bell did mention exploring options for him to continue playing footy but he was talking about with another club, not us.