Who is accountable for our club's catastrophic misreading of our list?

[ABAB]

The problem isn't at the fringes, the problem is at the core.

We already have picks 2, 20, and 26-32ish. If we can flip Kelly, Crouch, and Atkins in such a way that we turn that into 5 picks inside 30, or maybe spread some out into next year, add those retirements, then we have a decent start for a rebuild - Jones and McHenry in year 2, a pointy end midfielder with pick 2, a dozen other players we can run through and find out if they're worth keeping, we still have Doedee and Milera, and we retain enough experience to not do a Carlton/Melbourne, who could also still possibly be around when it matters again a few years from now.

It's what we should be doing.

No way you would trade B.Crouch, Kelly is interesting he seems to have gone to another level this year but we have too much defenders with a core group of defenders developing nicely so he might be worth the trade as his currency has increased this year. We don't have much outside players so no to trading Atkins (his good is very good and just need to improve his consistency).

 

[Big Gazoongas]

The club started the year believing we were contenders for a flag.

They were wrong.

Who should resign tomorrow?

First Rob Chapman, uncountable chairman that has never made 1 tough decision.
Second Andrew Fagan - Told us we would have the best footy program with the right people in the right seats. Total utter garbage.
Third Don Pyke - has lost it. He's implemented a game plan which is shite. Pure unadulterated shite. Its so bad that its taken some good players right out of the game. The ball movement and transition is amateurish.....we can't even score goals.
Its a sh#t product to watch.

Our list is so overrated its not funny. Too many down hill skiers and one way runners.

We are not winning a GF anytime soon.

Patrick Dangerfield and Jack Gunston made the right decision.

 

[Bovo]

Brad Crouch doesn't run defensively at all, he can't break lines because he doesn't have the pace, he isn't evasive, he doesn't win enough quality clearances, and he can't hit targets by foot, especially going forward where he's one of the chief midfielders responsible for our trash tier inside 50 entries, which just make our already ordinary forward structure look even worse.

What is it about him exactly that makes you think he's so great? He's largely supposed to occupy the same space as Tim Kelly does for Geelong, but the difference in ability between the two was starkly demonstrated down at Kardinia Park a week ago.

Douglas, Mackay, Jacobs, and Walker all ought to be strongly encouraged to retire. Brad Crouch, Atkins, and Kelly should all be flipped for whatever we can get for them, and Kelly should fetch a pretty good price after this season. Atkins is the sort of player a pseudo-contending club like Essendon might be enticed into overpaying for, and a couple of clubs might be into giving us a pick to 'refresh' Crouch's faltering career. Now is the time.

Okay, I will bite. Brad Crouch retiring or being moved on would be disastrous for our club. Forgetting the hole he would leave, but what affect would that have on his brother if we looked to screw Brad over.

b Crouch is an inside link up player. Without stats I would guess most of his possessions are contested or at least under pressure. He is no Danger or Kelly. He is B Crouch and he is quality.

The other thing is you are suggesting nearly a quarter of our side either retire or we trade out. That is dangerous if players coming in for them lack experience. That could set us back a season or two and no club wants a losing culture.

 

[rocket18]

Port have more income than we do. We ain't that wealthy. We are mid table.

And yet they get $3 million more than us from the AFL EVERY year.

 

[NTRabbit]

Okay, I will bite. Brad Crouch retiring or being moved on would be disastrous for our club. Forgetting the hole he would leave, but what affect would that have on his brother if we looked to screw Brad over.

He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. If he can't get over it, then maybe he doesn't have the mental fortitude required to play at this level.

The other thing is you are suggesting nearly a quarter of our side either retire or we trade out. That is dangerous if players coming in for them lack experience. That could set us back a season or two and no club wants a losing culture.

We're not going to contend again before 2022 at the absolute earliest. Putting off the obvious and inevitable is going to set us back more seasons than facing up to it now.

 

[relapse]

I don't want us to trade 2 for Grundy, I thought I made that clear with my threat of arson

also I forgot to add Otten to the retiree list

Apologies, it's been a long stressful night, I obviously speed read your message and my dyslexia must have kicked in

 

[rocket18]

The club started the year believing we were contenders for a flag.

They were wrong.

Who should resign tomorrow?

There won't be any resignations.

We had Trigg oversee us lose 3 x 1st round and 3 x 2nd round picks - he stayed on.

We had Burton oversee the worst fitness system in AFL history last year - he stayed on.

The AFC is the club of choice for unaccountability.

 

[dani_giuls]

There won't be any resignations.

We had Trigg oversee us lose 3 x 1st round and 3 x 2nd round picks - he stayed on.

We had Burton oversee the worst fitness system in AFL history last year - he stayed on.

The AFC is the club of choice for unaccountability.

I need to get a job at the AFC, give me some job security


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[ftmch]

A lot of people are saying we might have a list to contend.

Not saying this is right, but it's a disgrace that we really just don't know because we are picking old spuds over elite young talent.

We genuinely have no idea what a refreshed, younger, faster Crows would look like and whether (combined with some senior players) that would be enough.

We don't know because we are too pissweak to try. Too scared of not making the eight "where anything can happen".

It's f’ed up.

That's exactly the thing - there's no point bemoaning the state of our list until we've had a chance to properly assess it. The combination of our current gameplan (particularly forward of centre) and our bewildering selection policy doesn't enable us to draw any significant conclusions on where our list is at

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[Ravenous Crow]

The other thing is you are suggesting nearly a quarter of our side either retire or we trade out. That is dangerous if players coming in for them lack experience. That could set us back a season or two and no club wants a losing culture.

I think that part is inevitable. We have the second oldest list. It's clear now that the 2017 core isn't going to compete for another premiership so now is the time where you start radically changing the list rather than trying to augment around an existing core.

Look at Hawthorn for example over the last couple of years. Once Clarkson et al recognised that they were no longer in the premiership window they started to aggressively cut through the list and try to unearth the next group of players that can take them into contention. This year was never going to be good for them results wise as they're midway through the transition but you can understand the long term strategy behind what they're doing.

 

[Bovo]

He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. If he can't get over it, then maybe he doesn't have the mental fortitude required to play at this level.

He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. If he can't get over it, then maybe he doesn't have the mental fortitude required to play at this level.



We're not going to contend again before 2022 at the absolute earliest. Putting off the obvious and inevitable is going to set us back more seasons than facing up to it now.

He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. If he can't get over it, then maybe he doesn't have the mental fortitude required to play at this level.



We're not going to contend again before 2022 at the absolute earliest. Putting off the obvious and inevitable is going to set us back more seasons than facing up to it now.

ueah but you need to have a plan. Clarkson knows how to move big players on and get good players in. I don’t believe that is a strong skillfor AFC.the whole thing is strategy. Players in,out etc. I feel a big exodus as you suggested would leave us vulnerable. We are hardly a destination club so wooing talent our way is always tough

 

[Bovo]

I think that part is inevitable. We have the second oldest list. It's clear now that the 2017 core isn't going to compete for another premiership so now is the time where you start radically changing the list rather than trying to augment around an existing core.

Look at Hawthorn for example over the last couple of years. Once Clarkson et al recognised that they were no longer in the premiership window they started to aggressively cut through the list and try to unearth the next group of players that can take them into contention. This year was never going to be good for them results wise as they're midway through the transition but you can understand the long term strategy behind what they're doing.

But we are not Hawthorn. The club and coach are pretty respected. They know how to play the game, and attract talent, we don’t

 

[GreyCrow]

I wonder if the 2018 injury curse meant the club misidentified the position we were in. ''just load up 2017 again and she'll be right jack''

 

[marty36]

He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. If he can't get over it, then maybe he doesn't have the mental fortitude required to play at this level.



We're not going to contend again before 2022 at the absolute earliest. Putting off the obvious and inevitable is going to set us back more seasons than facing up to it now.

We won't be contending if we can't replace tex JJ Betts and lynch in the next couple of years

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[marty36]

I'm reading this thread and wondering wtf

Do posters still rate the recruiting of our list superior to other clubs

Because if they do they are clearly delusional

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[dani_giuls]

Give us a summary of the highlights...

All the same, selection cost us, we need to play the young guys, new coaches required, let’s go unchanged next week, can we move on people within the club, bring back David Teague our forward line has no consistency, where was the heart....

Though I did just read a few with of the “we always support our boys, that’s what real supporters do”, next week is another week, a few losses and you’re all ready to sack everyone - ilk.

My favourite though (under a post on injury updates) “where is the update on our broken hearts, when will they heal”..


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[relapse]

There won't be any resignations.

We had Trigg oversee us lose 3 x 1st round and 3 x 2nd round picks - he stayed on.

We had Burton oversee the worst fitness system in AFL history last year - he stayed on.

The AFC is the club of choice for unaccountability.

You've hit the nail on the head.

Burton should have been marched out of the doors at the end of last year, the fact that the club has covered it up and kept him in a job speaks volumes as to the culture down there.

If I hear the club ever try and use the term "elite standards" ever again I'll spew up.

Chapman - has overseen one failure after another seemingly without any scrutiny.

Fagan - boldly declared in 2014 “That is my history ... deliver the best football program because that is what you can control. Put the right people in the right seats - and get the right system in place.
“That is the focus for me - give the Adelaide Crows the best football progam in the AFL.”. Since that statement has brought in Brett Burton, Ben Hart, Mick Godden and Mattner. If that's his idea of bringing in people that will give the club the best football program in the AFL then Fages don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Campo - how many failed coaching groups is he going to be part of until the penny drops that he's part of the problem? He's somehow survived scrutiny despite being part of failed the Neil Craig/Sanderson and now Pyke eras.

Ben Hart - Honestly if you were to look up mediocre in the dictionary his face would have to be there. Possibly the most uninspiring person you could ever meet, was a dismal defensive coach and is now an ever bigger failure as a forward line coach.

Godden - A bargain basement appointment, anyone who thinks he's anything more than a cheap stop gap option is kidding themselves. We either couldn't find anyone who would take the job or we cut costs by hiring him to free up cap space for Steve Saunders.

Burton - don't even get me started on that clown, should have never been brought back in the first place.

Don Pyke - no Plan B, Neil Craig Mk 2

There is nothing elite about our club, the quest for the adoption of elite standards at the club ended tragically 4 years ago.

 

[Scorpus]

You've hit the nail on the head.

Burton should have been marched out of the doors at the end of last year, the fact that the club has covered it up and kept him in a job speaks volumes as to the culture down there.

If I hear the club ever try and use the term "elite standards" ever again I'll spew up.

Chapman - has overseen one failure after another seemingly without any scrutiny.

Fagan - boldly declared in 2014 “That is my history ... deliver the best football program because that is what you can control. Put the right people in the right seats - and get the right system in place.
“That is the focus for me - give the Adelaide Crows the best football progam in the AFL.”. Since that statement has brought in Brett Burton, Ben Hart, Mick Godden and Mattner. If that's his idea of bringing in people that will give the club the best football program in the AFL then Fages don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Campo - how many failed coaching groups is he going to be part of until the penny drops that he's part of the problem? He's somehow survived scrutiny despite being part of failed the Neil Craig/Sanderson and now Pyke eras.

Ben Hart - Honestly if you were to look up mediocre in the dictionary his face would have to be there. Possibly the most uninspiring person you could ever meet, was a dismal defensive coach and is now an ever bigger failure as a forward line coach.

Godden - A bargain basement appointment, anyone who thinks he's anything more than a cheap stop gap option is kidding themselves. We either couldn't find anyone who would take the job or we cut costs by hiring him to free up cap space for Steve Saunders.

Burton - don't even get me started on that clown, should have never been brought back in the first place.

Don Pyke - no Plan B, Neil Craig Mk 2

There is nothing elite about our club, the quest for the adoption of elite standards at the club ended tragically 4 years ago.

Is Steve Saunders the most qualified/elite person at the club for the role they are in?

 

[jackster83]

Is Steve Saunders the most qualified/elite person at the club for the role they are in?

Just watch him get poached in the off-season, only to be replaced by a former AFC player.

 

[relapse]

Is Steve Saunders the most qualified/elite person at the club for the role they are in?

At this point I would say that Saunders and Hagis are the only two people at the club who I feel are of an elite standard.

 

[relapse]

Just watch him get poached in the off-season, only to be replaced by a former AFC player.

I don't think that will happen, we got lucky because he had to come back to Adelaide for personal reasons so he pretty much just fell into our lap.

There's been a massive buy in with Saunders from the playing group so the club will be doing everything they can to keep him. Also given that he has now set up his business in Adelaide I don't see him going anywhere else.

 

[GrommoT]

I don't think that will happen, we got lucky because he had to come back to Adelaide for personal reasons so he pretty much just fell into our lap.

There's been a massive buy in with Saunders from the playing group so the club will be doing everything they can to keep him. Also given that he has now set up his business in Adelaide I don't see him going anywhere else.

Is this likely a longish-term situation for Saunders?

 

[1991firstgamer]

You've hit the nail on the head.

Burton should have been marched out of the doors at the end of last year, the fact that the club has covered it up and kept him in a job speaks volumes as to the culture down there.

If I hear the club ever try and use the term "elite standards" ever again I'll spew up.

Chapman - has overseen one failure after another seemingly without any scrutiny.

Fagan - boldly declared in 2014 “That is my history ... deliver the best football program because that is what you can control. Put the right people in the right seats - and get the right system in place.
“That is the focus for me - give the Adelaide Crows the best football progam in the AFL.”. Since that statement has brought in Brett Burton, Ben Hart, Mick Godden and Mattner. If that's his idea of bringing in people that will give the club the best football program in the AFL then Fages don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Campo - how many failed coaching groups is he going to be part of until the penny drops that he's part of the problem? He's somehow survived scrutiny despite being part of failed the Neil Craig/Sanderson and now Pyke eras.

Ben Hart - Honestly if you were to look up mediocre in the dictionary his face would have to be there. Possibly the most uninspiring person you could ever meet, was a dismal defensive coach and is now an ever bigger failure as a forward line coach.

Godden - A bargain basement appointment, anyone who thinks he's anything more than a cheap stop gap option is kidding themselves. We either couldn't find anyone who would take the job or we cut costs by hiring him to free up cap space for Steve Saunders.

Burton - don't even get me started on that clown, should have never been brought back in the first place.

Don Pyke - no Plan B, Neil Craig Mk 2

There is nothing elite about our club, the quest for the adoption of elite standards at the club ended tragically 4 years ago.

Oh * off mate haven't you been watching what Mattner did at Sturt

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[feenix67]

Lol he must have really annoyed you.

Let's trade our best midfielder away.

Look, I've had enough of the simplistic analysis of Brads game. He does not have a defensive bone in his body. He doesn't run defensively, he has no accountability, his possessions rarely hurt an opponent. Plus he lacks composure in high pressure games. We gave a high pick up to get this guy, and id suggest hes the worst "elite" mid of that draft. He will not lead our midfield anywhere.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

This is the wake up call we ‘needed.’ An ‘honourable’ 10 point loss would have just seen us proceed as normal. Pyke was visibly shaken up at his conference. Poor fella did not see that coming. I expect (or is that hope) to see some big calls between now and the end of the season. Please Fog, pull your finger out, and play a blinder today.