Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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May 6, 2007
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You definitely don't want 4 guys who are just ruckmen.

3 would be the limit because you can't develop 4 as there is only limited game time.

Definitely want some ruck/forward utilities.

Our inability to have a ruck/fwd does hurt the thought process of 4 ticks on the list.

Ideally two are playing seniors and two are in the VFL


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I like Nino Lazaro eth-dog but I doubt we go for him. He is exactly the type of player we have an abundance of on our list.


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Is he though? Hard working flanker/wing that runs both ways. We don't have many.
 

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May 6, 2007
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Is he though? Hard working flanker/wing that runs both ways. We don't have many.

Yeah, on second thoughts. A hard working HFF’er is exactly the sorta guy we need.

Really missed one yesterday. Would be curious to know his yo - yo results


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Originally went to post this in Clarke’s thread, but it probably belongs here.

The ruck situation really is a lesson in poor list management, let’s be honest.

I remember the rule was always you don’t go into a season without four ruckmen, because their form can be hot and cold (hard to recover when they’re in a slump) and they have a habit of getting hurt (hardly surprising given the crash and bash nature of the role).

We went in with three... the first two got hurt and Clarke is a long way off the level required.

Such was the poor decision in recruiting Clarke, it’s really like we’ve gone into the season with two ruckmen. Both of whom are now predictably injured.

There’s no way you can count McKernan as a ruckman given our shortage of key forwards, which we should have known with Daniher coming off a major injury - that’s now flared again.

We have to play Clarke right now, not sure we have another option.

With Bellchambers possibly retiring, Clarke not up to it and Draper maybe going, we could conceivably be in the market for four rucks this off season. At least three.

We need:

#1 Ruck: I’m not sure it’s Bellchambers any more, in which case we’ll need a genuine AFL ruckman who can step in Round 1.

The Next In Line: could potentially be #1 in 2020. Hopefully it’s Draper, if he leaves we need another.

The Emergency Option: at the moment it’s Clarke... though we probably should replace him with someone better

The Project: young ruck we can bring through. Don’t have one at the moment.
I think the list management with regard to rucks was fine. No one during the trade/draft period last year would have expected our stocks of talls to have been decimated the way they have been. Do we start going into a season with 4 rucks to provide backup in case Bellchambers gets injured again? Seems like a lot of list spots to cover one spot in the senior side. Then you have issues with an AFL standard back up ruck wanting games and asking to be traded.

If we had someone vaguely competent as backup instead of Clarke we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, however he was the best available at the time so we're stuck with him until Bellchambers is healthy again.

Best we can hope for over the next handful of games is for Clarke to build in confidence and show a bit of improvement.
 
Originally went to post this in Clarke’s thread, but it probably belongs here.

The ruck situation really is a lesson in poor list management, let’s be honest.

Is it though? We entered the year with 3 genuine ruckmen and 4 blokes made for the backup/chop out role, and as of right now Clarke is the only one to have not missed significant time due to injury. Sometimes there are just too many injuries no matter how many you have.

When we were looking for a backup ruckman at the end of last year the things I was after were AFL experience, a capable enough reserves forward to not impinge on Draper’s development and take time from him and is someone that’s probably just content to be in the league and happy to be a frequent travelling emergency and bit part player and Clarke is all of that. He made a lot of sense on paper.

Could argue poor talent identification because Clarke doesn’t look great but I don’t buy that it’s poor list management, very few clubs roll with more than 3 specialist ruckmen on a list.
 
Sep 29, 2016
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Is it though? We entered the year with 3 genuine ruckmen and 4 blokes made for the backup/chop out role, and as of right now Clarke is the only one to have not missed significant time due to injury. Sometimes there are just too many injuries no matter how many you have.

When we were looking for a backup ruckman at the end of last year the things I was after were AFL experience, a capable enough reserves forward to not impinge on Draper’s development and take time from him and is someone that’s probably just content to be in the league and happy to be a frequent travelling emergency and bit part player and Clarke is all of that. He made a lot of sense on paper.

Could argue poor talent identification because Clarke doesn’t look great but I don’t buy that it’s poor list management, very few clubs roll with more than 3 specialist ruckmen on a list.
This.

Right idea recruitment wise. Wrong guy.
Tom Campbell would have been my pick but I am unsure if Norf snaffled him before or after we got Clarke
 
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Is it though? We entered the year with 3 genuine ruckmen and 4 blokes made for the backup/chop out role, and as of right now Clarke is the only one to have not missed significant time due to injury. Sometimes there are just too many injuries no matter how many you have.

When we were looking for a backup ruckman at the end of last year the things I was after were AFL experience, a capable enough reserves forward to not impinge on Draper’s development and take time from him and is someone that’s probably just content to be in the league and happy to be a frequent travelling emergency and bit part player and Clarke is all of that. He made a lot of sense on paper.

Could argue poor talent identification because Clarke doesn’t look great but I don’t buy that it’s poor list management, very few clubs roll with more than 3 specialist ruckmen on a list.

Could also argue we have alot of one dimensional talls on our list. Our ruck are rucks only, our tall defenders are only tall defenders. Our tall forwards are only tall forwards.

Of the guys listed at 196cm+ only one is (AFL standard) multi capable on top of his normal position and that is Shaun McKernan. Daniher is unknown for his ruck craft. TBC couldn't hold down FF for 6 weeks, Draper is unknown at AFL level, Clarke is crap. Compare that to the ladder leading cats and they have 4 guys capable of playing ruck on top of there usual positions (Buzza/Fwd, Ratugolea/fwd, Blicavs/Def, Abbot/Fwd).
 
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Have been thinking about this for the past 24 hours but this idea we are big bodied inside midfielder short is minimising by the week. The club obviously sees a midfield group of Shiel, Heppel, Merrett, Parish, Langford. his idea of needing a big body in this group isn't as big an idea as many would think imho.

The big glaring omission especially on yesterdays evidence was a hard working mid/small forward who works up and down the ground. We miss Daniher drastically whilst the guys supposedly filling this role (Laverde, Fantasia, Stringer) can all go missing (like yesterday).

imho, our needs we should e addressing this year are 4 key areas.

1. Ready made #2/#3 ruck who can play back up to TBC should be get hurt whilst Draper recovers from injury.
2. Ruck/Fwd who can take over from Smack in the long run. I really like the look of Bowman in our VFL squad.
3. Hard working HFF/Wingman who runs all day to link up the midfield with the forward line.
4. Small fwd, another role we can look to fill through astute drafting or even trading with a number of guys playing state league at the moment.
 

blitzer

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Could also argue we have alot of one dimensional talls on our list. Our ruck are rucks only, our tall defenders are only tall defenders. Our tall forwards are only tall forwards.

Of the guys listed at 196cm+ only one is (AFL standard) multi capable on top of his normal position and that is Shaun McKernan. Daniher is unknown for his ruck craft. TBC couldn't hold down FF for 6 weeks, Draper is unknown at AFL level, Clarke is crap. Compare that to the ladder leading cats and they have 4 guys capable of playing ruck on top of there usual positions (Buzza/Fwd, Ratugolea/fwd, Blicavs/Def, Abbot/Fwd).

I would argue Daniher was worthwhile in the ruck. Not for the actual hitouts (which he was kind of rubbish at) but the round the ground winning possessions type stuff he was very dynamic. Certainly you wouldn't ever play him as first ruck but as a second ruck I thought he was pretty handy and it often got him into the game. I think the best example was the West Coast game where he ended up kicking 5 goals and several of those were whilst he was rucking. It allowed him to skirt the McGovern matchup at times which was pretty valuable.
 
Dec 18, 2007
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Have been thinking about this for the past 24 hours but this idea we are big bodied inside midfielder short is minimising by the week. The club obviously sees a midfield group of Shiel, Heppel, Merrett, Parish, Langford. his idea of needing a big body in this group isn't as big an idea as many would think imho.

The big glaring omission especially on yesterdays evidence was a hard working mid/small forward who works up and down the ground. We miss Daniher drastically whilst the guys supposedly filling this role (Laverde, Fantasia, Stringer) can all go missing (like yesterday).

imho, our needs we should e addressing this year are 4 key areas.

1. Ready made #2/#3 ruck who can play back up to TBC should be get hurt whilst Draper recovers from injury.
2. Ruck/Fwd who can take over from Smack in the long run. I really like the look of Bowman in our VFL squad.
3. Hard working HFF/Wingman who runs all day to link up the midfield with the forward line.
4. Small fwd, another role we can look to fill through astute drafting or even trading with a number of guys playing state league at the moment.

I generally agree except the part on Stringer, I thought he was good and looked dangerous. I was more concerned by LaVerde and a little bit with Fanta but Fanta is more of a flashy player so not that concerned.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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Have been thinking about this for the past 24 hours but this idea we are big bodied inside midfielder short is minimising by the week. The club obviously sees a midfield group of Shiel, Heppel, Merrett, Parish, Langford. his idea of needing a big body in this group isn't as big an idea as many would think imho.

The big glaring omission especially on yesterdays evidence was a hard working mid/small forward who works up and down the ground. We miss Daniher drastically whilst the guys supposedly filling this role (Laverde, Fantasia, Stringer) can all go missing (like yesterday).

imho, our needs we should e addressing this year are 4 key areas.

1. Ready made #2/#3 ruck who can play back up to TBC should be get hurt whilst Draper recovers from injury.
2. Ruck/Fwd who can take over from Smack in the long run. I really like the look of Bowman in our VFL squad.
3. Hard working HFF/Wingman who runs all day to link up the midfield with the forward line.
4. Small fwd, another role we can look to fill through astute drafting or even trading with a number of guys playing state league at the moment.

Stewart was performing #3 well for a while, can hopefully get fit again.
 

Towno78

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We started with five rucks. Lavender retired, Draper and Bellchambers are injured. McKernan went forward. Clarke is the only healthy one we have left.
You forgot to mention Stringer, lol
 

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Just on the ruck sitution

I've alway thought you need 4 rucks on your list, evidenced by some very good lists in recent years.

#1 (Tom Bellchambers) - A guy clearly number 1 in the clubs ruck department.
#2 (Zac Clarke) - A guy capable of filling in when the #1 guy is injured, resting, suspended.
#3 (Sam Draper) - This is the guy pushing to take the mantle of #2, and soon enough the #1 ruck number at the club.
#4 (****) - This is a guy w've struggled with for some time now. Perhaps Luke Lavender was this guy but that didn't eventuate.
 
May 6, 2007
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While I'm in here (it's been a slow day)

Feel we have a list built for the game 5 years ago with a bunch of high marking key forwards on the list. A large group of flankers trying to turn into mids and a defence built on zoning off.


With the new 6 - 6 - 6 rules, the game has moved to a more moving, fast paced game. We've got the speed to do some damage, we just don't have the marking forwards capable of doing this on a consistent basis.
 

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Clarke was recruited on the back of an outstanding WAFL season.
You can only drink the beer they put in the can.
 

BrunoV

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Clarke was recruited on the back of an outstanding WAFL season.
You can only drink the beer they put in the can.


You need to work out who was critically evaluating his performances and sack that person or maybe just not listen again.

What's the bet no one was actually watching him play and they went on the back of recommendations?

I'd say it's a good bet.
 
The other question is whether you bother with the #4 project ruck. After losing Jenkins, if the same happens with Draper... you have to wonder whether it's worth developing them just for another club to come and take them when they're ready.
Surely it's easier for us to become the poacher. (queue David Attenborough voice-over)
 
Have been thinking about this for the past 24 hours but this idea we are big bodied inside midfielder short is minimising by the week. The club obviously sees a midfield group of Shiel, Heppel, Merrett, Parish, Langford. his idea of needing a big body in this group isn't as big an idea as many would think imho.

The big glaring omission especially on yesterdays evidence was a hard working mid/small forward who works up and down the ground. We miss Daniher drastically whilst the guys supposedly filling this role (Laverde, Fantasia, Stringer) can all go missing (like yesterday).

I think Smith can fill this role to a large degree, or displace one of the guys you've listed above and allow them to play that role.
IMO Smith would take Langford's midfield spot (haven't seen the Sydney game, did he play mid?) and langford plays the high half-fwd role where he can best utilise his one-on-one skills
 
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I think Smith can fill this role to a large degree, or displace one of the guys you've listed above and allow them to play that role.
IMO Smith would take Langford's midfield spot (haven't seen the Sydney game, did he play mid?) and langford plays the high half-fwd role where he can best utilise his one-on-one skills

I didn't see Langford in that many centre bounces. I thought he was more across half forward.
 

Mikevk123

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Possible scenario

Trade
Out:
Orazio Fantasia and Sam Draper

Delistings
Ben McNeice Category B Rookie
Matt Dea Rookie
Luke Lavender Categorty B Rookie Retired
Zac Clarke Rookie
Michael Hartley
Jake Long
David Myers Retire
Mark Baguley Retire


Gives us 4 Rookie spots and 6 senior spots If it does eventuate. Depending on the scenario I’d hold Hartley. Good depth.

We currently hold Pick 27,33,45,63,65 and 81.
 
You need to work out who was critically evaluating his performances and sack that person or maybe just not listen again.

What's the bet no one was actually watching him play and they went on the back of recommendations?

I'd say it's a good bet.
I'd say it's not a good bet.

Sometimes these sort of picks just don't work out.
 
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