Lack of Respect for the History of our Great Game by Interstate Clubs

[pablo668]

re: VFL saved us all vs we all saved the VFL argument.
Oh boy, where to start. Ok, number one, try to be objective as possible, two, realise people can read the same source material and come up with different conclusions.

Something that needs to be recognised, as it was back at the very dawn of people thinking of a national comp, Aussie Rules needed more money to operate and therefore needed to go professional, that was the case for all the big leagues back then.
I'm unsure about the state of the SANFL at the time, but the VFL and the WAFL would not have survived in the same form as they were. Something else would have sprung up in their places, no idea what tbh.
I know that the SANFL were coming up with things like player retention packages/schemes etc and were resistant to joining the VFL....until Port came along and threw the cat among the pigeons....rightly or wrongly, lets not get into that here.

As far as I know, the WAFL was in dire straights, crowd numbers were going down, players were being drained from the system to the VFL, who had clubs doing this that couldn't afford it, worse was the fact that clubs in the WAFL were relying on this as a source of income. Hence the VFL having some kind of collapse would have a knock on effect to the WAFL.
So it's a case of a large chunk of the VFL bankrupting itself to keep up and threatening to stuff up both competitions financially.

Throw into this John 'Pigs arse!' Elliot sniffing around certain clubs (Claremont being one) about starting a new national comp, possibly a proto super league situation.
Also, the VFL refusing to come to the party in setting up any kind of NFL, or keeping it running/relevant. Can't argue with population and market share unfortunately.

This is a very rough look at the situation as it was at the dawn of the AFL becoming a thing.

Claiming it was all one way or the other is basically a nonesense.

 

[marty36]

The AFL is not a national comp and probably will never be, it's just not practical. The market is overwhelmingly in vic hence why the bulk of the clubs are vic teams.

Youre right on one point it is mostly Vic Clubs

But you are wrong on the fact 75% of australias population lives outside Victoria and the AFL want a big slice of that population for it to pay the hungry mouths it has

 

[pablo668]

Further to the OP.

Regardless of what anyone outside of Victoria thinks, the History of Aussie Rules in Victoria in in no danger of being forgotten or lost. If you go hunting for books on the history of the game the vast majority is all about what happened in Victoria, with brief salutations to SA and WA, usually about their contributions in Victoria.
Personally I'd be less worried about what others think of the footy history in Victoria and more about the AFL essentially doing the same thing as it does to others inside Victoria, i.e: the gradual destruction of the VFA, what looked to me like a really good comp in it's day.

 

[South of the Yarra]

And what about VFL supporters forgetting about champions from outside of Victoria?

WTF is your point?

What about those of us who don’t?

 

[VicBased]

It wasn't struggling financially,

Read this again and tell me sprockets stated the clubs were not in financial trouble. How about you make an effort and read period.

I was replying as stated by Sprockets. "It wasn't struggling financially".
The article says otherwise.

 

[VicBased]

That's the short version. If you're going to huff and puff, try reading the source materials first.

My original statement was replying that the Vics were in financial dire straights, hence the article. No huffing and puffing here. Probably all of football was in trouble Australia wide due to it being a Boys club and not as professional as it should have been. I was playing in that era and half time was a ciggy and beer. No need to defend the indefensible.

 

[Fuddnuddler]

Isnt it amazing how non Victorian supporters forget that we wouldn’t have a national competition if it wasn’t for the VFL

Isn't it amazing how Victorian supporters forget they wouldn't have a viable competition if it wasn't for the money from outside the VFL.

 

[Tedeski]

Interstate clubs are like that weird friend you invite to a party who gets there late. Everyone else is already happy and drunk and they just complain and are generally unhappy with the circumstances.

Yeah......OK!

 

[Tedeski]

There will only be 6 Vic teams max in 20 years.

 

[VicBased]

There seems to be an absolute lack of respect for the history of our great game by some Interstate clubs supporters simply because their clubs were not present.

Should Carlton forget about champions such as Nicholls and Jesaulenko because they only played in 12 team competitions?

Should the legends of the Colliers and Coventry’s be wiped from the record books because they played iagaindt ‘suburban’ teams’ ?

Should the Coleman medal be renamed the ‘Kennedy Medal’ because the great man played in a time of ‘amateur’ footballers and should Reynolds exploits be ignored?

Perhaps Bunton and Murray should be thrown on the scrap heap.

Maybe the immortal that is EJ Whitten should be relegated to suburban footballer and forget about Charlie Sutton.

Farmer and Goggin should be removed because they were not part of the AFL. Even Ablett’s 9 goal GF heroics would be wiped.

Matthews the greatest of them all would not be considered with the modern greats because he played in pre AFL

Barrassi and the immortal Demons teams of the 50s and 60s should not be celebrated due to the the fact they didn’t play in the expansion. The Norm Smith medal should be renamed

Grieg and Dempsey only played part time and could not possibly rank with the greats of today

Forget the Jack Dyer medal, Tigers fans should ignore his legend and rename it the Dusty medal. As for Hart and Bartlett they would not rate.

Pratt’s 150 and Nash’s heroics do not count

Baldock and Stewart ??? Who ???

And well we are at let’s rename ‘Up there Cazaly’ - Up there Modra
and the Jock McHale medal the ‘Simpson Medal’. No matter what era, no matter how long ago, a champion of the game is a champion of the game. They were the best on a level playing field against their peers. A Premiership whether Essendon in 1897 or West Coasts in 2018 was just as important. The history of our great game has been carved and written and for those who don’t like it the answer is simple. Stop whinging about our past and go and make your own history.

With respect to your post, you have thrown up some great names there. Both Victorian and West Aussies. Cable, Farmer etc most of those names were already interchanging between states. West Aussies coming to Victoria at their peak (to gain more experience) and the great Vic names would finish their careers in Victoria either coaching or playing. Precursor to a national comp way back then maybe.

 

[sprockets]

You seem to be conveniently forgetting all the tin rattling that your club became quite famous for

No, I didn't.

 

[Occidental]

Ageist

Clinging onto achievements that occurred before you were born as a source of pride is ridiculous.

I take it you don’t acknowledge Australia Day, Anzac Day, Easter or Christmas

 

[sprockets]

Saving football: New documents reveal how close the VFL came to shutting down
You might want to read this and get back to me.

I remember what went on. The VFL was bringing in a LOT of money (surely you'd concede that) but some clubs were using it unwisely.

 

[SaltPeter]

No, I didn't.

You'd be the first Richmond supporter I've come across here who's admitted their club was a "bottom" club .. kudos to you

 

[VicBased]

I remember what went on. The VFL was bringing in a LOT of money (surely you'd concede that) but some clubs were using it unwisely.

Wouldn't know Sprockets, i grew up in West Aussie and i remember massive crowds at the footy. They would have been nonprofit then? and i agree, money would have been coming in and the pissups would have been extreme. I went to one and no expense was spared. I would imagine the same was happening in Victoria.

 

[happy_eagle]

I take it you don’t acknowledge Australia Day, Anzac Day, Easter or Christmas

I dont claim any of those as personal achievements, no

 

[Laphroaig]

Isn't it amazing how Victorian supporters forget they wouldn't have a viable competition if it wasn't for the money from outside the VFL.

Not exactly true.

The VFL was not viable in it's (then) current form. On the other hand, it was generating heaps of revenue and with certain adjustments was very much an ongoing viable operation. Never would be as big as the AFL became, but viable. The licence fees which it are popularly believed in Adelaide and Perth to have saved the AFL were in fact a very small proportion of annual revenue of the time.

A lot of people in Victorian football were keen to see the law of the jungle make the necessary changes before expansion, and it is an arguable case that we'd have a much better AFL now if that had been allowed to happen.

The WAFL was basicly a corpse with a stick up it's butt holding it upright. SA footy was comparatively healthy, but had nowhere to go. Without entry to the VFL SA was never going to be more than a backwater feeder league, but SA also had the ability to wait for its own terms.

For different reasons, all three benefited from the expansion. But it is ironic, given the current WA mythology to the contrary, that the timing and speed of the expansion was driven by the imminent collapse of WA football. That in turn resulted in the weaker Victorian Clubs having sufficient leverage to demand a cash bail out as part of the deal for their yes vote.

 

[Laphroaig]

Wouldn't know Sprockets, i grew up in West Aussie and i remember massive crowds at the footy. They would have been nonprofit then?

Non profit is a way of saying loss making, I guess.

Even after two government bail outs, the WAFL and its clubs had twice the debt of the VFL in the years leading up to expansion. And less than 1/10th of the income.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

This will end well.

Maybe the AFL, as guardians and keepers of the game, should make a better fist of recognising interstate achievements.

Why? That's the job of the various non-Vic footy codes

 

[Fuddnuddler]

SA footy was comparatively healthy, but had nowhere to go. Without entry to the VFL SA was never going to be more than a backwater feeder league, but SA also had the ability to wait for its own terms.

Some valid points, but then this drivel about SA...you seriously understate the financial health and strength in a strict football sense of the SANFL back then.

 

[VicBased]

Even after two government bail outs, the WAFL and its clubs had twice the debt of the VFL in the years leading up to expansion. And less than 1/10th of the income.

Yes but the intro of WC (not sure about Freo) has rejuvenated WA footy and i have to take my hat off to them the way they go about it. AFL has been good for Australian footy.
P.S..hope Carlton come good. I supported them as a kid in WA and lusted after their guernsey.

 

[demondavey]

What about those of us who don’t?

You literally have no point

 

[South of the Yarra]

You literally have no point

Actually I do have a point that there are many that are selectively dismissive of the history of our great game.

 

[The Speaker]

re: VFL saved us all vs we all saved the VFL argument.
Oh boy, where to start. Ok, number one, try to be objective as possible, two, realise people can read the same source material and come up with different conclusions.

Something that needs to be recognised, as it was back at the very dawn of people thinking of a national comp, Aussie Rules needed more money to operate and therefore needed to go professional, that was the case for all the big leagues back then.
I'm unsure about the state of the SANFL at the time, but the VFL and the WAFL would not have survived in the same form as they were. Something else would have sprung up in their places, no idea what tbh.
I know that the SANFL were coming up with things like player retention packages/schemes etc and were resistant to joining the VFL....until Port came along and threw the cat among the pigeons....rightly or wrongly, lets not get into that here.

As far as I know, the WAFL was in dire straights, crowd numbers were going down, players were being drained from the system to the VFL, who had clubs doing this that couldn't afford it, worse was the fact that clubs in the WAFL were relying on this as a source of income. Hence the VFL having some kind of collapse would have a knock on effect to the WAFL.
So it's a case of a large chunk of the VFL bankrupting itself to keep up and threatening to stuff up both competitions financially.

Throw into this John 'Pigs arse!' Elliot sniffing around certain clubs (Claremont being one) about starting a new national comp, possibly a proto super league situation.
Also, the VFL refusing to come to the party in setting up any kind of NFL, or keeping it running/relevant. Can't argue with population and market share unfortunately.

This is a very rough look at the situation as it was at the dawn of the AFL becoming a thing.

Claiming it was all one way or the other is basically a nonesense.

A good post that will be completely ignored as it doesn't say anything outlandish.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Respect my clubs history by acknowledging our premierships then I will acknowledge the State league premierships of the VFL

This. Goes both ways.

This thread is stupid. And stop calling the rest of Australia Interstate ffs.