Autopsy Swans lose to Fremantle by 1 point - Round 18
- Thread starter scaryness
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- Oct 27, 2007
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Ahh, you just spoke of composure and that’s right. You’re a teacher, do you just allow that to happen or do you offer direction? I think you may need to question all 18 teams and ask why they have forwards, midfield and defensive coaches along with development and strategy coaches.
A coach fails and the team fails, I’ve never seen a losing coach with a big trophy!
caesar88
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Haha not a bad analogy at all there MO!
But I stand by that there are some cases, not all the time, where lack of skill or composure is inevitable because a player's just cracked under pressure. I've seen some of the most polished blokes to ever play the game, like Pendles or Sam Mitchell, have some moments where they've just shat the bed. If they can despite all their class and 200+ games of experience, I'm willing to be a tad more lenient on a bunch of young forwards and their coach. That's not a free pass though, just a warning in class terms
- Oct 27, 2007
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Of course, to err is human nature. Nobody ever is perfect and never will be in delivery but the instruction can’t ever be mistaken. To be told to push wide or slow tempos hardly physical, it’s srtstegicHaha not a bad analogy at all there MO!
But I stand by that there are some cases, not all the time, where lack of skill or composure is inevitable because a player's just cracked under pressure. I've seen some of the most polished blokes to ever play the game, like Pendles or Sam Mitchell, have some moments where they've just shat the bed. If they can despite all their class and 200+ games of experience, I'm willing to be a tad more lenient on a bunch of young forwards and their coach. That's not a free pass though, just a warning in class terms
I didn't want to post just after the game as I was pretty disappointed. To be honest I really didn't care at the end whether we won or loss. Our execution was s**t as our skills collapsed under pressure. To quote Yogi Berra, the New Yok Yankees catcher "It was deja vu all over again"
Now I ask myself, is that simply due to a lack of skills overall ? Are these guys genuinely unskilled ? I doubt it. Too many times I've seen the same guys demonstrate the highest of skills. Heeney is probably the highest example.
More likely it's down to pressure. So why is it that some teams handle pressure and others don't ? That's down to experience. The more a player tries to execute their skills under the pressure of senior AFL football the better they get. That's not to say they won't still mess up the odd one but nothing on the level of this game.
So in the belief that skills under pressure will come with experience I ask what's to like about this game ? Actually plenty.
I like that the style of football we're playing is fast, free flowing and taking the game on. Better execution and we'd have won it in the first quarter.
I like that kids like Blakey are being encouraged to perform their incredible repertoire of tricks, even when they sometimes don't come off under pressure.
I like that we're trying to spread from the contest with a fast chain of handballs, even if we over-use it sometimes or get in each others' way.
I like that our senior players are standing up and leading, as they should. They're not slowing the game down either but leading by example. Guys like Rampe, Parker, Reid and Kennedy remain solid most weeks, even if the rest of the team is having a shocker.
I like that players can have a shocker or two and still be given another chance based on honest effort. Hayward's a good example. He's clearly out of sorts but he's still trying. His efforts are not lacking and that's getting him games.
I like that there's no wholesale dropping of players. These young guys are our future. As for the senior players, sure Kennedy is no longer a spring chicken but if I was a kid like Rowbum I'd play better having him standing beside me.
I like that there's no criticism of players who are genuinely trying. For instance, how can we judge McCartin for missing set shots ? He worked hard and he's normally a good kick for goal. Aliir, who dropped a couple of easy marks but fought valiantly. Stoddart who fumbled under pressure but didn't shirk the contest. What about Hewett who won a lot of ball but turned it over several times running ? He doesn't lack the skills to hit targets.
I like that players are being encouraged to become confident in themselves. Even when Buddy makes a huge cockup he owns it. He doesn't lose his strut. These younger players need to own their mistakes but have the time to find their strut too. Papley has it, even when he has a shocker. That keeps him believing in himself.
I like that we are being soundly beaten in the ruck for week after week but we're still competing. Still believing. Still backing ourselves.
We can up the ante on training pressure whenever we can but it comes down to game experience. The three e's of football are experience, experience and experience. With more than three quarters of our team inexperienced youngsters any chain of play is at risk of breaking down. The solution is to be patient. They need to keep taking the game on under pressure in the full knowledge that they are allowed to make mistakes, as long as they work hard and try to learn from them. Failure is a great teacher. I'm sure Horse is finding the tapes of the last few weeks a very useful teaching aid.
Now I ask myself, is that simply due to a lack of skills overall ? Are these guys genuinely unskilled ? I doubt it. Too many times I've seen the same guys demonstrate the highest of skills. Heeney is probably the highest example.
More likely it's down to pressure. So why is it that some teams handle pressure and others don't ? That's down to experience. The more a player tries to execute their skills under the pressure of senior AFL football the better they get. That's not to say they won't still mess up the odd one but nothing on the level of this game.
So in the belief that skills under pressure will come with experience I ask what's to like about this game ? Actually plenty.
I like that the style of football we're playing is fast, free flowing and taking the game on. Better execution and we'd have won it in the first quarter.
I like that kids like Blakey are being encouraged to perform their incredible repertoire of tricks, even when they sometimes don't come off under pressure.
I like that we're trying to spread from the contest with a fast chain of handballs, even if we over-use it sometimes or get in each others' way.
I like that our senior players are standing up and leading, as they should. They're not slowing the game down either but leading by example. Guys like Rampe, Parker, Reid and Kennedy remain solid most weeks, even if the rest of the team is having a shocker.
I like that players can have a shocker or two and still be given another chance based on honest effort. Hayward's a good example. He's clearly out of sorts but he's still trying. His efforts are not lacking and that's getting him games.
I like that there's no wholesale dropping of players. These young guys are our future. As for the senior players, sure Kennedy is no longer a spring chicken but if I was a kid like Rowbum I'd play better having him standing beside me.
I like that there's no criticism of players who are genuinely trying. For instance, how can we judge McCartin for missing set shots ? He worked hard and he's normally a good kick for goal. Aliir, who dropped a couple of easy marks but fought valiantly. Stoddart who fumbled under pressure but didn't shirk the contest. What about Hewett who won a lot of ball but turned it over several times running ? He doesn't lack the skills to hit targets.
I like that players are being encouraged to become confident in themselves. Even when Buddy makes a huge cockup he owns it. He doesn't lose his strut. These younger players need to own their mistakes but have the time to find their strut too. Papley has it, even when he has a shocker. That keeps him believing in himself.
I like that we are being soundly beaten in the ruck for week after week but we're still competing. Still believing. Still backing ourselves.
We can up the ante on training pressure whenever we can but it comes down to game experience. The three e's of football are experience, experience and experience. With more than three quarters of our team inexperienced youngsters any chain of play is at risk of breaking down. The solution is to be patient. They need to keep taking the game on under pressure in the full knowledge that they are allowed to make mistakes, as long as they work hard and try to learn from them. Failure is a great teacher. I'm sure Horse is finding the tapes of the last few weeks a very useful teaching aid.
Don't fret. We don't need much improvement to reach finals with just a bunch more games going our way. Our list suggests we will develop each year in what should be a fairly linear improvement.
Here goes .... 2020 7th SF, 2021 4th PF, 2022 2nd GF, 2023 1st GF, 2024 1st GF, 2025 1st GF, 2026 2nd GF, 2027 1st GF (Buddy retires on 1400 goals), 2028 3rd GF, 2029 2nd GF, 2030 4th PF (loss to a Shaw coached North Melbourne as the greatest era in Swans history comes to an end), 2031 6th SF under new coach Hayward and assistant coaches Ronke, Blakey (Junior), Hewett and Blakey (senior). 2032 8th EF (Calls for Hayward's sacking on BF. but he is rigorously defended by Tedeski (Junior))
Grand Uncle Horace
Nice to see the famous NMFC#wishboner spirit livii
Gold, gold, gold. Gold to Connolly.
Highest quality Gold from RoCo. Coffee nearly came through my nose. I am still chortling.
Grand Uncle Horace
Nice to see the famous NMFC#wishboner spirit livii
Shock Tracker results: Your speed machines, endurance beasts
How does your team and players fare in the Telstra Tracker stats?www.afl.com.au
Distance kings – average distance covered per match
1. Tom McCartin: 14.70km per match
2. Jake Lloyd: 14.48km per match
3. Ryan Clarke: 14.44km per match
Distance kings – single-match records for 2019
1. Ryan Clarke: 17.28km v North Melbourne, round nine
2. Ryan Clarke: 16.95km v West Coast, round 12
3. Tom McCartin: 16.17km v Melbourne, round four
McCartin’s problem is not his fitness. His problem is he runs around like a headless chook and he can’t kick.
This struck me as a little unfair. McCartin is being asked to run huge distances for a tall. From my observation, part of his role is to block space when Oppo have the ball. Another is to create a target and to chase and Apply pressure.
I think his technique with the ball has changed from last year and reflects hard work on his part. His technique can break down and possibly it stems from cumulative exhaustion.
Pretty clear where ourt needs are at the moment. Just one decent sized ruckman would have made a huge difference to that.An oversized mid (Dawson?), would have helped too.
Wolftone
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This will go down as one of the ugliest games of footy ever. The scoreline is enough to tell the story. Scrappy, more mistakes than Trump, a surface that is plain dangerous and so many unforced and elementary skill and decision making errors you could be forgiven fir thinking you were probably watching the Balmain Docker Juniors V Leichhardt Cygnets.
This game was marred by the dreadful condition of the surface. Slippery, dangerous and totally unacceptable. But that wasn't the only reason for the multiple skill errors. Decision making by both sides was lamentable. But ours was just a disgrace. I am under no illusions about our team, they are young, but it was the decisions of some of our experienced players that left me astounded. Poor decision making was followed up by even poorer disposal. Tommy Papley probably managed to hit two targets all night.
I know Jones is given license to take the game on but he needs to rationalise when to go and when to slow. When to give off and when to hold on and run. He constantly got himself and his teammates in trouble leading to turnovers. If you are surrounded by a wall of opponents it is probably a good thing to Dish off to a teammate in a better position rather than take them on Jonsey.
What can Longmire take from today. McLean. Even though he only won 18HO his second efforts were very good and he laid some crunching, telling tackles.
On ANE-LX2J using BigFooty.com mobile app
This game was marred by the dreadful condition of the surface. Slippery, dangerous and totally unacceptable. But that wasn't the only reason for the multiple skill errors. Decision making by both sides was lamentable. But ours was just a disgrace. I am under no illusions about our team, they are young, but it was the decisions of some of our experienced players that left me astounded. Poor decision making was followed up by even poorer disposal. Tommy Papley probably managed to hit two targets all night.
I know Jones is given license to take the game on but he needs to rationalise when to go and when to slow. When to give off and when to hold on and run. He constantly got himself and his teammates in trouble leading to turnovers. If you are surrounded by a wall of opponents it is probably a good thing to Dish off to a teammate in a better position rather than take them on Jonsey.
What can Longmire take from today. McLean. Even though he only won 18HO his second efforts were very good and he laid some crunching, telling tackles.
On ANE-LX2J using BigFooty.com mobile app
mikey_san
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We are a chance of earning one !
Not out of the realm if Carlton and Dees win a couple and we don't. I did the ladder predictor last night. We play both in the run home.
If we do the smart thing and find out who in the NEAFL can contribute while at the same time managing our players so as not to cook them for meaningless games. If we are serious about improving Heeney, Blakey, McCartin, JPK, even Mills all need resting.
Rose, Grassy, Stoddart, Amartey, McLean, even McInerney all need 3 games into them from here at a minimum.
Are we that F'n stupid as a club as to cook the likes of Heeney, Mills and JPK for a 12-9th place finish?
We can go out there and play hard Swans footy at the same time as setting ourselves up for next year and developing some new talent.
The King!
Chosen One
rewatched this when i was up ill
lyon and longmire should be fined for the shitty game style they dish up
healy banged on about the contest, but that was some shitful footy
also we got some ok umpiring until the end when they missed 3-4 frees
lyon and longmire should be fined for the shitty game style they dish up
healy banged on about the contest, but that was some shitful footy
also we got some ok umpiring until the end when they missed 3-4 frees
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
You re-watched that game? You weren't drunk enough!
The King!
Chosen One
Grand Uncle Horace
Nice to see the famous NMFC#wishboner spirit livii
Commiserations on the loss.
Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. If you haven't seen a previous post, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.
Overall Summary - 17 Bounces
Hewett 15
Kennedy 13
Florent 11 wing
Parker 10
Clarke 9 wing
Lloyd 7 wing
Rowbottom 6
Jones 5 (3w, 2i)
Heeney 3 (2i, 1w)
Papley 3
Fox 1 wing
Blakey 1 wing
Stoddart 1 wing
Rucks:
McLean 10
Fox 2
Aliir 5
Centre Clearances (per Champion Data/AFL.com.au
Jones 1
Fox 1
First Half - 10
Hewett 10
Florent 9 wing
Kennedy 8
Parker 6
Clarke 6 wing
Rowbottom 5
Lloyd 3 wing
Fox 1 wing
Jones 1 wing
Heeney 1
McLean 8
Fox 2
Final Term - 4
Kennedy 4
Lloyd 4 wing
Hewett 3
Papley 3
Jones 2 wing
Parker 1
Clarke 1 wing
Heeney 1
Stoddart 1 wing
Aliir 4
Notes (pertain to the 10 analysed games this season and ones from seasons past):
- Most starts for Lloyd since Rd 4, 2017. This was only the 2nd of the 10 games where Lloyd has received a start at all. He attended 100% of the bounces in Q1 & Q4, but nothing in the middle terms.
- Equal fewest starts this season for Florent. As noted above, he didn't feature in the final term.
- Clarke didn't have a start in Q1
- First start for Blakey since Rd 2
- Stoddart's debut start in analysed games
- Fox's debut in the back-up role
Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. If you haven't seen a previous post, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.
Overall Summary - 17 Bounces
Hewett 15
Kennedy 13
Florent 11 wing
Parker 10
Clarke 9 wing
Lloyd 7 wing
Rowbottom 6
Jones 5 (3w, 2i)
Heeney 3 (2i, 1w)
Papley 3
Fox 1 wing
Blakey 1 wing
Stoddart 1 wing
Rucks:
McLean 10
Fox 2
Aliir 5
Centre Clearances (per Champion Data/AFL.com.au
Jones 1
Fox 1
First Half - 10
Hewett 10
Florent 9 wing
Kennedy 8
Parker 6
Clarke 6 wing
Rowbottom 5
Lloyd 3 wing
Fox 1 wing
Jones 1 wing
Heeney 1
McLean 8
Fox 2
Final Term - 4
Kennedy 4
Lloyd 4 wing
Hewett 3
Papley 3
Jones 2 wing
Parker 1
Clarke 1 wing
Heeney 1
Stoddart 1 wing
Aliir 4
Notes (pertain to the 10 analysed games this season and ones from seasons past):
- Most starts for Lloyd since Rd 4, 2017. This was only the 2nd of the 10 games where Lloyd has received a start at all. He attended 100% of the bounces in Q1 & Q4, but nothing in the middle terms.
- Equal fewest starts this season for Florent. As noted above, he didn't feature in the final term.
- Clarke didn't have a start in Q1
- First start for Blakey since Rd 2
- Stoddart's debut start in analysed games
- Fox's debut in the back-up role
The King!
Chosen One
Love your work mate
I would love to see Kennedy out of there or half his time at least to finish the year
- May 9, 2011
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I think we’ve got a stack of good kids.
We’ve got a bunch of old timers who have either left or will leave this year.
The shortage for me are those players in between.
We need a couple more established players like Rampe, Parker who can lead the club over the next 5 years.
We’ve got a bunch of old timers who have either left or will leave this year.
The shortage for me are those players in between.
We need a couple more established players like Rampe, Parker who can lead the club over the next 5 years.
mikey_san
Cancelled
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Bit harsh. That last quarter was really entertaining (if not particularly skillful) footy.
I enjoyed that game despite the farcical umpiring and inside 50s at times.
I think if we'd had Dawson playing we'd have won comfortably. Mind you if they'd had Fyfe....
Last edited:
SwansProudly
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- #396
Thanks so much
caesar88
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How is Dawson an excuse? Was he not playing in recent weeks when our skills were just as deplorable?
A lot of the work we did up the ground was actually really good, it just came undone inside our forward 50. In actual fact I think our delivery to our forwards was actually the best it's been in some time. The forwards just collectively made a meal of their opportunities to get into scoring positions once it was inside 50. That was the really deflating part.
bertamcberta
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Very interesting visual you’ve conjured there. At least it me laugh.
- Feb 5, 2012
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I have no doubt as a club we are that stupid.
