Analysis Derek Hine

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KPF
Ruck/Forward
KPD
small forward

Should be our targets in this years trade/draft period. Hoping we dont bloody trade our 1st or 2nd rounders for next year

i think we found our speed down back with noble and quaynor, which is what ive been hoping we would get for a few years now.
 
loki04 said:

Kirby? as what mate as a specialist crumbing type? you ever watch his games? He was a lead and mark type who occasionally crumb a goal. Does not fit the job description.
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Which specialist crumbing types picked in the time frame would you like us to have in our team? Serious question, because I reckon you want your forward line to consist of a couple of tall forwards, a couple of generalist forwards and a couple of rotating/developing mids. If you were picking a team from the whole AFL, I don't think there would be a specialist crumbing type in it.
 
nahnah said:
Or more the fact that if Varcoe and Wells retire we don't have a single indigenous player on the list largely due to the fact we have a history of passing on them.. I'm not saying we are racist as a club I'm just saying we tend to pass on the indigenous small forwards for other players and it would be nice to have a few small forwards that can crumb outside of Stevo
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We don't draft specialist small forwards, regardless of race. I don't mind it. The best small forwards are mids at lower leagues (or undersized full forwards at lower leagues) who have some issue that stops them being mids at a higher level.
 

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sr36 said:
Which specialist crumbing types picked in the time frame would you like us to have in our team? Serious question, because I reckon you want your forward line to consist of a couple of tall forwards, a couple of generalist forwards and a couple of rotating/developing mids. If you were picking a team from the whole AFL, I don't think there would be a specialist crumbing type in it.
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Off the top of my head....
Younger ones Dan and Willi Rioli, Bobby Hill, Ian Hill, Cameron WCE, J.Higgins when in form, Fantasia and Tipungwudi...just for starters.

Charlie Cameron is one as well but can play higher no issues with versatility so long as they have crumbing specialist type attributes.

Luke Bruest was also one and still more then capable at it.
Walters and Ballantyne.

Tom Papley, Eddie Betts and Toby Greene.

Many teams have the types just not us.
 
loki04 said:
Off the top of my head....
Younger ones Dan and Willi Rioli, Bobby Hill, Ian Hill, Cameron WCE, J.Higgins when in form, Fantasia and Tipungwudi...just for starters.

Charlie Cameron is one as well but can play higher no issues with versatility so long as they have crumbing specialist type attributes.

Luke Bruest was also one and still more then capable at it.
Walters and Ballantyne.

Tom Papley, Eddie Betts and Toby Greene.

Many teams have the types just not us.
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Greene, Vintage Betts, Walters and occasionally Tippa are the only ones in the same class as Stephenson and Degoey. Despite also being fantastic when presenting at the footy, they're also very dangerous crumbers.
 
sr36 said:
Greene, Vintage Betts, Walters and occasionally Tippa are the only ones in the same class as Stephenson and Degoey. Despite also being fantastic when presenting at the footy, they're also very dangerous crumbers.
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Given the latter 2 were top 6 picks you hope so as players...and you are projecting a bit there with Stephenson vs some peers of the proven types like Bruests best years.
Stephenson also does it no where near with the regularity of the others mentioned and really neither does degoey although more regular then Stepho and typically off his own spills more then other fwds.

The creative crumbing role wouldn't be in competition with those 2 lead up types anyway. They are both predominantly lead and mark players.

It would be in competition with the 5th and 6th slots like a Josh Thomas or Crocker etc. Or allow a WHE to play wing bring pace to our square set up or hbf role if needed...
 
loki04 said:
Given the latter 2 were top 6 picks you hope so as players...and you are projecting a bit there with Stephenson vs some peers of the proven types like Bruests best years.
Stephenson also does it no where near with the regularity of the others mentioned and really neither does degoey although more regular then Stepho and typically off his own spills more then other fwds.

The creative crumbing role wouldn't be in competition with those 2 lead up types anyway. They are both predominantly lead and mark players.

It would be in competition with the 5th and 6th slots like a Josh Thomas or Crocker etc. Or allow a WHE to play wing bring pace to our square set up or hbf role if needed...
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Obviously it would be nice to have some more classy forwards and you're right I am projecting with Stepho. But last year we had a group dubbed the swoop squad because they were so effective at pouncing on spillage. A couple of them are horrendously out of form, but I'm not sure if guys like Willie or Dan Rioli, who play a good game every 6 months, would make us much better.

People tslk about picking a couple of indigenous small forwards as though they grow on trees. There's about 6 consistently good indigenous small forwards in the league.
 
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sr36 said:
Obviously it would be nice to have some more classy forwards and you're right I am projecting with Stepho. But last year we had a group dubbed the swoop squad because they were so effective at pouncing on spillage. A couple of them are horrendously out of form, but I'm not sure if guys like Willie or Dan Rioli, who play a good game every 6 months, would make us much better.
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Bit of hyperbole with Will and Dan Rioli there. I'd also argue that those 2 create more goals when buzzing around even with low stats then other players we rotate around our fwd line.

Swoop squad more like small versatile fwd line that goat a lot of goals from running back into fwd 50 into space or from leading up at the ball carriers...
2018
Cox
Mihochek
Degoey crumbs his own spills the most.
WHE irregular crumb.
JT (our main crumber/defensive fwd who fell out of form for much of the back half of 2018 and is no where near creative enough not just goals but around them too)
Stephenson irregular crumb.

Outside crumbing the ability to spot targets inside 50 in traffic and smoothly deliver the ball.
Chase and harass.
Create goals both directly and indirectly through smart play.
Running at packs at paces ability to consistently wrong foot etc.

Some teams even run 2 players with these attributes. Hell Richmond has a heap capable with varying talent caps.
Stack is another who is capable if they chose to play the role.
 
loki04 said:
Bit of hyperbole with Will and Dan Rioli there. I'd also argue that those 2 create more goals when buzzing around even with low stats then other players we rotate around our fwd line.

Swoop squad more like small versatile fwd line that goat a lot of goals from running back into fwd 50 into space or from leading up at the ball carriers...
2018
Cox
Mihochek
Degoey crumbs his own spills the most.
WHE irregular crumb.
JT (our main crumber/defensive fwd who fell out of form for much of the back half of 2018 and is no where near creative enough not just goals but around them too)
Stephenson irregular crumb.

Outside crumbing the ability to spot targets inside 50 in traffic and smoothly deliver the ball.
Chase and harass.
Create goals both directly and indirectly through smart play.
Running at packs at paces ability to consistently wrong foot etc.

Some teams even run 2 players with these attributes. Hell Richmond has a heap capable with varying talent caps.
Stack is another who is capable if they chose to play the role.
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I tend to agree with the swoop squad stuff.

Maybe I have watched the wrong Richmond games, but I haven't seen Dan Rioli do a thing since that 2017 final. I just don't think that many of the guys mentioned are any better or any more consistent than Varcoe, Thomas and Brown.
 
TradeDraft said:
I have noticed a bit this Season we have Depth in some Postions like Medium Forwards but we don't have any Real KPF's at all as Hine has only picked Paine,Gault.McLarty in the National Draft and other 2 Moore and Kelly where Father Sons since 2010.

Also we have a Real Lack of Crumbers. Yes we had Abbott and Kirby and we did not have much luck with them. With Abbott going AWOL after 1 Season and then Kirby's Heart Issue.

Then look at our Midfield we have some Good Inside/Outside Mids but outside of Adams and Maybe Sier we don't have many other Inside/Clarence Players.

Hine has been good of finding players but there too similar to each other.

Thoughts?
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Honestly can't recall who Abbott is/was.
 

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Damon_3388 said:
Honestly can't recall who Abbott is/was.
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Much like Kirby, Abbott was tearing it up at VFL level for a season which saw him earn the label "The Big Show". Unlike Kirby who's career was derailed by health issues, Abbott just thought he had more important stuff to do than thrill us supporters so returned home to WA. Was some suggestion of MH issues.
 
OniAu said:
Shouldn't be relying on international/cross sport prospects to fill our KP needs either. Cox has been good , but has his limitations. Really wish we would just draft a young KPF OR KPD and put some time into them

Our list balance is stupidly out of whack. Plus we love to hang on to nothing players who are about 8th best for their position (Wills, Broomhead , Crocker, (Of the past) Oxley and Blair) or injury prone players ( Reid , Wells ) Instead of turning these types over for youth.

We dont even have a back up ruck if Grundy goes down. Cox is it , but then it takes a KPF from our forward line.
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You forgot we have Lynch as a ruck man.
 
sr36 said:
I tend to agree with the swoop squad stuff.

Maybe I have watched the wrong Richmond games, but I haven't seen Dan Rioli do a thing since that 2017 final. I just don't think that many of the guys mentioned are any better or any more consistent than Varcoe, Thomas and Brown.
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They don't bring the attacking attributes/flair etcetc of most the others named.
 
loki04 said:
They don't bring the attacking attributes/flair etcetc of most the others named.
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I reckon Varcoe is as good a player now as when he was at the Cats and when he was at the Cats he would have made your list. With a few exceptions, the less often you watch small forwards, the neyter they appear to be because you remember the highlights.
 
Plenty of other clubs have picked up super quick pressure small forwards pretty cheap. Eagles with Ryan and Rioli, GWS with Bobby Hill, Crows when they got Charlie Cameron.

The players are out there, we just aren’t recruiting them
 
regpies said:
Plenty of other clubs have picked up super quick pressure small forwards pretty cheap. Eagles with Ryan and Rioli, GWS with Bobby Hill, Crows when they got Charlie Cameron.

The players are out there, we just aren’t recruiting them
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Yep, Stevo is the only speedster, one more and we'd be deadly with some decent key structure
 
nahnah said:
you should have reported the post if you think it is racism! Out of curiosity who am I being racist towards? Pretty laughable accusation
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Kappa is a closet politically correct police, you mention the word indigenous and he labels you a racist

Kappa STFU and stay cool bro ( not racist )


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I think Hine concentrates on "hard workers", "players from good families", "players with good attitudes".... I'm not sure some kids at 18 fit that criteria.

Listen to Matt Rendell in 2014. He gives an interpretation of it.
www.collingwoodfc.com.au

Draft Combine: Rendell's Review

Watch Senior National Recruiting Assistant Matthew Rendell outline Collingwood's plans at the AFL Draft Combine ahead of the second day of testing at Etihad Stadium.
www.collingwoodfc.com.au www.collingwoodfc.com.au

Sometimes you have to draft players who might depend on the culture of the club..... and not just draft players who will add to the culture.
 
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